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Post by ________ has left the building on Nov 21, 2014 13:07:30 GMT -5
I just remember Dreamer's episode on Austin's podcast, Steve was grilling him about continuing to do the ECW style and not caring about brain damage and fn Dreamer saying that he wasn't going to change his style despite the fact that he was developing memory loss. Damn, dude. That's awful. What a warped thought-process. I think he just doesn't know what else he would do if he wasn't in the wrestling business, and that style is the only thing keeping him in because that's the only reason people want to see Tommy Dreamer. Dreamer's problem is that he was never a good wrestler before going hardcore. So wrestling in straight up matches don't work for him. That is a problem for a number of ECW alumni. Sandman, Axl Rotten, New Jack, and Balls Mahoney suffer the same problem. And that is why promoters hire them just get hit in the head with objects and bleed & fans will chant EC-DUB when it happens.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 13:23:28 GMT -5
What would Dreamer learn from the past though? If anything, he'd learn that "hardcore = good" because that style of wrestling is responsible for him having success in the wrestling business. For him, hitting people with shit and getting hit with shit and bleeding all over the place has been positively reinforced since the mid 90s. And that's still happening, because there's still a market for it. There's still fans who think wrestling peaked with ECW and everything after blows, and those are the people that continue to line his pockets. I don't really blame Dreamer, he's just doing what he's always done, TNA knows exactly what they're going to get. At the same time, all he needs to do is take one look at most of his ECW buddies to see how stupid this shit is. Like, how many of his peers are physically wrecked or dead? Even if he experienced success with that style, he should be old enough to look at his past and be like, "man, I was an idiot." If you don't look at yourself from 20 years ago and think that, you aren't progressing. That's what makes me mad. The past is the past but it is 2014 and we have infinitely more knowledge about this stuff than than we did in 1996. How can you be in this business for so long and have so little hindsight? It's ignorance at it's finest and that's something I just won't tolerate. Ignorance deserves to be insulted and destroyed. I'm not gonna pretend like matches like this will just stop happening because Dreamer stops doing them. There will always be young guys out there desperate for an opportunity that will do dumb shit like this. Dreamer, however, is only making the situation worse by participating in these matches and making it seem like they are still the way to go. He's an enabler. Finally, if you absolutely have to do a match like this...HAVE IT MEAN SOMETHING. At least when Dreamer was doing this in the 90's, it was memorable because nobody had really done it before on such a consistent basis. It is 2014. I can't think of a single spot I saw in this match that I was impressed by because I've seen it all 1000 times before. Nobody is gonna remember this shit in a month. At least the Hardys and the Dudleys got immortalized through video packages when they killed themselves in those TLC matches. Why kill yourself for no reward? Wrestling is a business about getting the most out of the least. These guys went out there and did the exact opposite. Totally right. But we have the benefit of seeing things from a distance, and thus more rationally. Is it really ignorance on his part? I think it's more like delusion. He sees some of his broken-down peers and says "that won't happen to me, because blah blah blah and such and such, they have these faults I don't have, etc." Then he sees peers like Mick Foley, Rob Van Dam, and says "see? they're highly respected and they're still around, sure Mick's beat up but he's got a lot of money!" Also, on the delusion side, Dreamer probably thought that match DID mean something. After all, he's Tommy F'ing Dreamer, ECW Legend passing the torch to the New King Of Hardcore, Bram, on a nationally televised show with a million people watching! "Let us pull out all the stops, so I can make this kid. Double juice, cheese graters, ball-shots, everything. I'll even let him kick out of my finish! You should be honored by this, rookie." All the while, the fans who actually do watch the show like us are just laughing at how much it sucks and finding the whole thing pretty awkward. But, Dreamer is too entombed in this hardcore, masochistic style to see the forest for the trees. I'm not defending Dreamer at all, though it probably comes off like I am. I'm just trying to get inside his thought-process, the thought-process of a man who has made himself famous and made a ton of money by having hardcore matches. It's correct to criticize it, but all the good things in his life came from this stuff, he even met his wife in ECW. He's been rewarded time and time again for a behavior, and it's Psych 101, if you're rewarded for a behavior you continue to do it. That's where Tommy Dreamer is at right now. As long as people will pay him to do what he does, he's gonna do it. I wish pro wrestling was regulated, or better yet that promoters would self-regulate and get rid of this style of wrestling for good, but that's even less likely than Dreamer re-inventing himself as a performer.
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Emmet Russell
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Post by Emmet Russell on Nov 21, 2014 19:14:11 GMT -5
Another thing: I really like Bram, and I enjoy hardcore matches quite a lot. I feel the problem here was not the match or Bram, but Dreamer. What does Bram get for beating him? Nothing. What does Bram get for losing to him? Lost credibility.
I'm also worried that they're only going to use Bram for matches like this, and that's a shame, because everything I've seen from him shows me that he can wrestle and he can wrestle really well. I wouldn't mind him wrestling the occasional hardcore match with fresh opponents - and no, I don't mean other ECW relics like Sandman - that actually mean something. With a proper feud behind them and creative people like Bram, hardcore matches can be really fun and innovative. With guys like Dreamer though, they're just the same old shit from a tired guy who should have retired ages ago.
I hope Bram is featured prominently in 2015. He's earned it in a short amount of time and with fresh opponents and feuds he should be able to excel even further and hopefully make up for that terrible Magnus title reign in 2014.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Nov 23, 2014 10:11:10 GMT -5
Beyond the stupidity of the match, the ending seemed to be setting up a Bram & Magnus vs. Tommy Dreamer & Al Snow feud. Who wants to see that, in 2014? a guy whose been frozen since 1999?
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 23, 2014 10:49:58 GMT -5
Funk at least did controlled hardcore, he also relied on psychology, Dreamer just bleeds, and f***ing Terry Funk also tried to stay in shape, hell in his 50's Funk was ripped and wrestled without a shirt on, Dreamer is soon gonna need a muumuu that says ECW with the twitter bird
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 11:58:26 GMT -5
Bram has been doing a good job with what he's been given but TNA has apparently decided that he's only good for stupid hardcore nonsense, much like they tried to run Taryn into the ground when they found out that she was willing to do crazy bumps. In the long term it's going to hinder his career if he becomes perceived as only a garbage wrestler.
Dreamer is about as useless as someone like Axl Rotten. A fat guy that plods around in his pajamas, hits people with things and bleeds. It's over, Tommy, just go home to your hot wife, run your little promotion and get on good terms with the WWE for an appearance here and there.
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Nov 23, 2014 18:38:35 GMT -5
All I have to add is that Bram liked my tweet to him
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 7:23:04 GMT -5
I've so had it with Tommy Dreamer.
He's like New Jack without the added perk of knowing he might actually do something ridiculous out of the ring.
He's boring. He's out of shape. I've seen him beaten stupid so many times that it no longer draws any sympathy from me.
You did some cool stuff with Sandman and Raven in like '95-'96. That was twenty years ago. Stop it.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Nov 24, 2014 8:38:37 GMT -5
Bram has been doing a good job with what he's been given but TNA has apparently decided that he's only good for stupid hardcore nonsense, much like they tried to run Taryn into the ground when they found out that she was willing to do crazy bumps. In the long term it's going to hinder his career if he becomes perceived as only a garbage wrestler. Dreamer is about as useless as someone like Axl Rotten. A fat guy that plods around in his pajamas, hits people with things and bleeds. It's over, Tommy, just go home to your hot wife, run your little promotion and get on good terms with the WWE for an appearance here and there. Bram is dangerously close to becoming the new Abyss. Someone who people used to see a potential star but now a walking punchline. All those bumps are forgotten seconds after the match and feuding with fat, hardcore geeks does nothing for his career. Dreamer will be 65 years old, getting around with a walker, and still wrestling hardcore matches. ECW is probably the thing keeping Dreamer alive. Like Dorian Grey but with chairshots and kendo sticks.
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mrbananagrabber
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Nov 24, 2014 18:23:21 GMT -5
I just remember Dreamer's episode on Austin's podcast, Steve was grilling him about continuing to do the ECW style and not caring about brain damage and fn Dreamer saying that he wasn't going to change his style despite the fact that he was developing memory loss. Dreamer: I don't remember saying that.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 25, 2014 5:57:01 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just a hardcore realist for some things, but to me Dreamer ALWAYS sucked in the ring. He is not a high flyer, he's not a mat technician-he's a guy who is tough as nails and can take abuse that would demolish others. He needed to be in a place like ECW or the deathmatch leagues in Japan because he needed those hardcore kind of matches with tables, chairs, and everything else to help cover how sucky he was between the ropes and make it look spectacular. And, at that time, it worked great. But here we are, the better part of two decades later, and fans have gotten used to seeing genuinely gifted athletes in the ring and in MMA, so those kind of matches don't have the same appeal they once did. I always thought Dreamer was one of the "better" hardcore workers. I agree. Dreamer is one of my favourite guys - I've not seen this match but 1. he typically sold 2. he made you care 3. he could cut a decent promo with real emotion when it was called for. Even in garbage matches Dreamer could get the crowd invested. I've not seen the match people are referring to but it sounds like he no longer has that ability.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 25, 2014 11:36:23 GMT -5
I wish that Dreamer would stop wrestling and became the head of talent relations, he's better suited for Gaburick's job, f*** I would give control of the company to Tommy, with the condition that he never wrestles again.
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Essential1
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Post by Essential1 on Nov 26, 2014 3:00:07 GMT -5
Hey well I might actually get some Head for once.
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