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Post by Mid-Carder on Nov 21, 2014 16:22:21 GMT -5
I know that the couple of times I've seen both Bellas live, they've worked really hard to get the crowd involved in their matches. It sounds like a minor thing but it really isn't at all. Nikki has potential, there's no doubt.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Nov 21, 2014 16:24:20 GMT -5
Actually a number of Divas would fit in Shimmer and not miss a step. And I'm not talking about folks like Paige and Emma. A number of the Divas are much better workers than we give them credit for. Michelle McCool in her prime could go toe to toe with the best but never got that respect because who she was f***ing and her WWE booking. And a number of indy women get exposed as not good as their hype when they finally wrestle on tv. So many times this. She was a boring talker but her wrestling was technically sound and as smooth as anything. Definitely one of the most underrated in-ring girls.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
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Post by Woo on Nov 21, 2014 19:20:40 GMT -5
Michelle McCool really is a little overrated. If you think her techincal wrestling is good you really need to check out some Daizee Haze, MsChif, Sara Del Rey or Rebecca Knox (aka Becky Lynch) matches. All four of them are easily better on the mic than McCool too. Of course she wouldn't be a star in Shimmer. Let's look at the last Shimmer tapings and list the girls roughly in order of how good they are... The other way around is true. Put any of these girls in the Divas Division,in RAW,in a random 4 minute (in a good day) match,with no build behind and they get exposed. On that list only 5 or 6 names are indiscutible great.Not more. Exposed as what? Not being able to have a good match in 420 seconds? How is that a fair test? Shimmer fans wouldn't stand for 4 minute matches, they demand better, so Nikki Bella wouldn't be a star there. You can't dispute that. And what, are these 4 minute matches what all women should be aiming for? Put Nikki Bella in a ten minute match and she'll be exposed as average. Surely it's fairer to judge a wrestler on a longer match? As you can then see what they are capable of? Also you say put these women in a 4 minute match with no build... But Nikki Bella has been put into matches with lots of build and they still aren't worthy of a place on a Shimmer DVD. Anybody who claims otherwise needs to check out the latest DVD's. She may have potential, but then she should be in NXT or wrestling dark matches for Shimmer then and not being a multi-veteran on TV. This thread reminds me of ones years ago where people used to call ROH guys vanilla midgets just because they haven't seen them and assume that the WWE guys must be the best. Then they all came to the WWE and proved that they really were better. Let's not forget that the best womens wrestling we've had on TV was from the TNA Knockouts Division during TNA's peak and it was made up of almost all Shimmer wrestlers.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Nov 21, 2014 20:17:21 GMT -5
Nikki isn't bad in the ring, she's just boring. You know who else isn't bad in the ring but is boring? Curtis Axel. Nikki is the Curtis Axel of the diva's division. Shit dude, if she starts doing that nipple pull taunt, I think we're gonna discover some weird fetishes around here! Also, I'd mark for the Bellas becoming female Rybaxel.
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Post by Chilly McFreeze on Nov 21, 2014 21:33:38 GMT -5
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
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The best wrestler on earth.
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Post by Emmet Russell on Nov 21, 2014 21:39:31 GMT -5
I know that the couple of times I've seen both Bellas live, they've worked really hard to get the crowd involved in their matches. It sounds like a minor thing but it really isn't at all. Nikki has potential, there's no doubt. I've said this before too. I saw Nikki live in Australia this year and she was great, easily the highlight of the tag match she was in with Emma against Layla and Alicia Fox. Her dropkicks were crisp. Her selling was great. Her babyface comeback was one of the best on the show -- that proves to me that she'd do very well working longer matches with the SHIMMER girls. Who have proven many times - Paige, HAVOK, Brittany - that they can't work a TV match to the level that Nikki can work a "Indy" style match.
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theryno665
Grimlock
wants a title underneath the stars
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Post by theryno665 on Nov 21, 2014 21:41:07 GMT -5
If your criteria is "having rad tits", then yes.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Nov 21, 2014 21:58:15 GMT -5
Are we talking about the ladies on the indies who showed up on the show because they're dating one of the wrestlers.
Or are we talking about some green women who are out of training school having their first match.
To the prior two, true. Everyone else, false. I'm actually not sure if serious.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Nov 21, 2014 22:16:33 GMT -5
Michelle McCool really is a little overrated. If you think her techincal wrestling is good you really need to check out some Daizee Haze, MsChif, Sara Del Rey or Rebecca Knox (aka Becky Lynch) matches. All four of them are easily better on the mic than McCool too. The other way around is true. Put any of these girls in the Divas Division,in RAW,in a random 4 minute (in a good day) match,with no build behind and they get exposed. On that list only 5 or 6 names are indiscutible great.Not more. Exposed as what? Not being able to have a good match in 420 seconds? How is that a fair test? Shimmer fans wouldn't stand for 4 minute matches, they demand better, so Nikki Bella wouldn't be a star there. You can't dispute that. And what, are these 4 minute matches what all women should be aiming for? Put Nikki Bella in a ten minute match and she'll be exposed as average. Surely it's fairer to judge a wrestler on a longer match? As you can then see what they are capable of? Also you say put these women in a 4 minute match with no build... But Nikki Bella has been put into matches with lots of build and they still aren't worthy of a place on a Shimmer DVD. Anybody who claims otherwise needs to check out the latest DVD's. She may have potential, but then she should be in NXT or wrestling dark matches for Shimmer then and not being a multi-veteran on TV. This thread reminds me of ones years ago where people used to call ROH guys vanilla midgets just because they haven't seen them and assume that the WWE guys must be the best. Then they all came to the WWE and proved that they really were better. Let's not forget that the best womens wrestling we've had on TV was from the TNA Knockouts Division during TNA's peak and it was made up of almost all Shimmer wrestlers. Shimmer is good but it isn't the be all authority when it comes to women wrestling. There are plenty of talented women out there who are not wrestling in Shimmer due to politics, not being good looking enough, or passed over for the latest indy it girl. It's like saying only the best wrestlers only wrestle for Ring Honor or New Japan. Shimmer has theIr share of dud wrestlers and matches. And I'm not talking just about Sparkle and opening matches. I have watched a number of matches thinking it would be better if they shaved off 5 or more minutes off the match or going full joshi isn't a good idea. Wrestling on tv is a different beast from the indies. Few can do it without needing extra practice. And people treat Divas who never wrestled in the indies like the dirt worst.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 22:19:29 GMT -5
Wait, are people saying Daizee Haze is better in ring and talking than Michelle McCool. McCool is better than her in every area, twice over. Good grief. Has she started wrestling again after her eating thing?
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
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Post by Woo on Nov 22, 2014 5:26:56 GMT -5
Wow... I really didn't expect to have to argue that Daizee Haze was a better wrestler than Michelle McCool match. Okay here''s the challenge you find me McCool's best match and I'll tell you five Haze matches that are better than it.
Likewise where are all these classic Nikki Bella matches that you guys have seen?
As for saying "well Britany" isn't doing too well in TNA so the Shimmer girls aren't all good, well she herself would be around the late 30's on the list I posted too and was only an opening match fixture in Shimmer while she was there. Paige's matches with Emma in NXT alone are better than any Nikki Bella match. So she clearly can wrestler on TV, though being able to "wrestle on TV" is a ludacris concept. Their job is to wrestler and the camera mans job is to film them...
Look at my list and tell me where you think Nikki Bella would rank when compared to the current roster.
There's a reason that when Nicole Matthews said to Jessie McKay that she "is nothing but a Bella Twin with an Australian accent!" got such a big reaction and it's that the Bellas simply aren't very good.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Nov 22, 2014 8:02:04 GMT -5
Wow... I really didn't expect to have to argue that Daizee Haze was a better wrestler than Michelle McCool match. Okay here''s the challenge you find me McCool's best match and I'll tell you five Haze matches that are better than it. Likewise where are all these classic Nikki Bella matches that you guys have seen? As for saying "well Britany" isn't doing too well in TNA so the Shimmer girls aren't all good, well she herself would be around the late 30's on the list I posted too and was only an opening match fixture in Shimmer while she was there. Paige's matches with Emma in NXT alone are better than any Nikki Bella match. So she clearly can wrestler on TV, though being able to "wrestle on TV" is a ludacris concept. Their job is to wrestler and the camera mans job is to film them... Look at my list and tell me where you think Nikki Bella would rank when compared to the current roster. There's a reason that when Nicole Matthews said to Jessie McKay that she "is nothing but a Bella Twin with an Australian accent!" got such a big reaction and it's that the Bellas simply aren't very good. Truthfully, I think Shimmer is overrated. Definitely not words heard on a message board but someone got to say it. I won't deny there are tons of talented women who worked for or currently in the company. But way too often the ladies of Shimmer are put on pedestals for no other reason than being in Shimmer. Sasha Banks was a good wrestler before coming to WWE but few knew that because she never wrestled in Shimmer. What you described what Matthews said is a smark comment that got over to a 100 people in the crowd and a couple thousand at home. She was p laying to her fanbase. It's the same way when Bryan Danielson said he was a pro wrestler, not a sports entertainer while in ROH. And guess what he is now? Naming off best matches of wrestlers are opinions. Just like my first sentence. I will say Nikki hasn't had 4 to 5 stars though her match against Brie last month was much better than some will give credit to. And you never know how someone may do in a new environment. Candace La Rae was a dumpster fire during her early PWG run. She was only getting booked because of Joey Ryan. But she worked hard to improve and now is a top flight talent. Whose to say Nikki can't do the same? Rosa Mendes on the other hand..
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The Ichi
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Posts: 37,273
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 22, 2014 8:59:00 GMT -5
I don't know why people can't just like who they like without turning it into mainstream vs. indies.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Nov 22, 2014 9:25:09 GMT -5
not sure if trolling.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
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Post by Woo on Nov 22, 2014 9:41:25 GMT -5
Wow... I really didn't expect to have to argue that Daizee Haze was a better wrestler than Michelle McCool match. Okay here''s the challenge you find me McCool's best match and I'll tell you five Haze matches that are better than it. Likewise where are all these classic Nikki Bella matches that you guys have seen? As for saying "well Britany" isn't doing too well in TNA so the Shimmer girls aren't all good, well she herself would be around the late 30's on the list I posted too and was only an opening match fixture in Shimmer while she was there. Paige's matches with Emma in NXT alone are better than any Nikki Bella match. So she clearly can wrestler on TV, though being able to "wrestle on TV" is a ludacris concept. Their job is to wrestler and the camera mans job is to film them... Look at my list and tell me where you think Nikki Bella would rank when compared to the current roster. There's a reason that when Nicole Matthews said to Jessie McKay that she "is nothing but a Bella Twin with an Australian accent!" got such a big reaction and it's that the Bellas simply aren't very good. Truthfully, I think Shimmer is overrated. Definitely not words heard on a message board but someone got to say it. I won't deny there are tons of talented women who worked for or currently in the company. But way too often the ladies of Shimmer are put on pedestals for no other reason than being in Shimmer. Sasha Banks was a good wrestler before coming to WWE but few knew that because she never wrestled in Shimmer. What you described what Matthews said is a smark comment that got over to a 100 people in the crowd and a couple thousand at home. She was p laying to her fanbase. It's the same way when Bryan Danielson said he was a pro wrestler, not a sports entertainer while in ROH. And guess what he is now? Naming off best matches of wrestlers are opinions. Just like my first sentence. I will say Nikki hasn't had 4 to 5 stars though her match against Brie last month was much better than some will give credit to. And you never know how someone may do in a new environment. Candace La Rae was a dumpster fire during her early PWG run. She was only getting booked because of Joey Ryan. But she worked hard to improve and now is a top flight talent. Whose to say Nikki can't do the same? Rosa Mendes on the other hand.. If they are put on pedastals it's because we know for a fact they can have great matches whereas for women like the Bellas the best we can say is that they might be able to or have potential to. Sadly with the WWE system we will never know. You might think some of the roster are overrated, but the thread asked if she'd be miles better than most of the indie girls, which is farcical. I'd ask Nikki Bella fans which Shimmer talents would you replace her with then?
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Nov 22, 2014 10:21:19 GMT -5
Ya know, I don't think I could be a Shimmer fan. Couldn't pull the whole "pretentious sense of superiority" schtick off.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Nov 22, 2014 10:31:15 GMT -5
At best I think she'd be able to hold her own. She wouldn't stand out from the pack in any way, but she definitely wouldn't get half the crap that she gets now.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Hawk Hart on Nov 22, 2014 10:36:54 GMT -5
I don't know why people can't just like who they like without turning it into mainstream vs. indies. We're not allowed to think outside of the hive mind or go against the IWC cliches. That's why I don't go into AJ threads anymore, I don't think she's all that talented and people around here can't handle that line of thought.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Nov 22, 2014 10:40:15 GMT -5
I don't know why people can't just like who they like without turning it into mainstream vs. indies. We're not allowed to think outside of the hive mind or go against the IWC cliches. That's why I don't go into AJ threads anymore, I don't think she's all that talented and people around here can't handle that line of thought. But you said you loved all my threads and that I was uber talented! And also, I'm a dude! Oh wait, wrong AJ, false alarm.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Nov 22, 2014 10:51:04 GMT -5
Not like every indie woman is a technical super charismatic wrestler. I say basically every diva (Natalya,AJ,Paige,Alicia,Emma,The Bellas...)can go and have no problems both in entertainment and in ring talent. They all have problems with entertainment. Why do you think the crowd chants random stuff during their segments? I like a couple of the girls a lot, but they struggle to be entertaining when not wrestling.
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