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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 21, 2014 17:12:15 GMT -5
The "how would you react if Cena passed Flair's world title count" question gets thrown around a lot. Most of the time, fans' answers are usually some form of "I wouldn't care/mind", "Both of them have meaningless reigns", "It's just a number", or "He's earned it".
IMO, he certainly doesn't need to break the record, his legacy would have been fine if he won four or five world titles as opposed to fifteen. And I doubt it'll even happen.
But I sure as hell wouldn't complain if he did. He's racked up quite a number of classic matches just like Flair has, his mainstream visibility- while below the Hogan/Rock level- is well above the Nature Boy's, and he hasn't done anything too stupid backstage or outside the ring that I could say would make him truly undeserving, in contrast to that crazy streak Flair went on a couple of years back. Plus he wouldn't be the first wrestler with an abnormal amount of (kayfabe) accolades.
So I was always curious: as pointless as it'd be to book, are there any factors that would make Cena passing Flair harmful for wrestling/WWE? Maybe I'm the wrong person for the job, but I legit can't come up with anything. The "not helping friends" meme doesn't count.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Nov 21, 2014 17:13:57 GMT -5
I couldn't care less. There'll always be the asterisk beside it of there being two world titles (which was insane from day one) for every one of his reigns thus far. For me personally he's had more than enough memorable feuds, moments, promos and matches to justify it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 17:18:02 GMT -5
It wouldn't hurt anything, particularly given he'd only be passing him in WWE's continuity and really would be coming nowhere close in actuality, but it just feels so needless, and they've gone to the Cena well way too many times as it is. This is a man who's had both a year run title run and a nine month one in a nine year span even with multiple year-long gaps between his runs and ran up his 15 World titles in just over those nine years.
Plus just so many of them have just been so needless that it really serves no point. Why did he need to win it at Elimination Chamber 2010, or really why did the Batista / Cena feud that had already started before that need it at all? Why did they give the World title to him his first night back from an injury twice both times with him just dropping it unceremoniously a couple of months later having really done nothing with it? Why did he win it at Mania 25 just to lose it again a month later? I know Flair's reigns had stuff like that here and there too, but with Cena it's more obvious since it's happened over a way, way shorter period of time and been plastered all over TV.
Really, I think to sum up, I'm less offended by, "Cena breaking Flair's record," than, "Cena ever winning the title again," because it's just ridiculously played out and there is absolutely nowhere to go with it from this point short of a heel turn that is not going to happen any time soon. Plus, as hard a worker as he is, a lot of it really just doesn't feel earned because of times like the two times they gave him the title his first night back from an injury without having even done a single pre-tape to hype those matches up, plus he just kept getting the title during really mediocre periods of his work and honestly he seems to coast more when he has the title or is going after it than he does without being anywhere near it.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 21, 2014 17:19:34 GMT -5
They aren't even trying to "Force Cena down our throats anymore" (not that there's anything wrong with that ). Right now it seems like he's just the "in case of emergency/injury/failed push" button and thus he keeps racking up title reigns just because.
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on Nov 21, 2014 17:23:44 GMT -5
At the end of the day, it just means they've both lost the title 15 odd times. Now if he was holding it for longer than Sammartino, then I'd be annoyed.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 21, 2014 17:24:41 GMT -5
Yeah, unless you turn him heel (and hopefully he'd be a very smug heel) there's not much storyline incentive for Cena to get a 16th or 17th belt. If they were able to get a good angle out of it though, I'd be interested in seeing just how many YouTube dweebs would try to paint it as this terrible tragedy for the industry.
Though I think time will probably be kinder to Cena's legacy than Flair's, at least as of writing (and I say that as one of Flair's biggest fans), so I'm really talking about a short-term scenario.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Nov 21, 2014 17:50:45 GMT -5
I don't think it really matters. This isn't like Cal Ripken breaking Lou Gehrig's streak. I don't think that many wrestling fans, writers, historians, etc. really view Ric Flair's number of championship reigns as some holy record. I think many fans and journalists feel that the number of reigns someone has doesn't matter now. It's hard to keep track of how many times wrestlers like Orton, Edge, and Cena have been champion. I remember when it did seem important back during the days of Harley Race and Ric Flair, but it just doesn't feel important any more.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Nov 21, 2014 17:51:07 GMT -5
Cena can win the damn thing 50 more times and it won't mean a damn.
It's not about how many reigns you have, especially in a sport that never has an off season. Therefore, a new champion can be crowned on every show if they want.
Fact of the matter is, while both have had some really shitty reigns, Cena has more of them.
Long reigning champions are so far more interesting to me given you start to root for them to do good. I'm the kind of person who likes seeing legit records get broken, so when Cena and later Punk went over a year with their reigns, it started to become intriguing. While I doubt anyone will ever touch Bruno's first reign, I'd love to see someone come incredibly close to Hogan's initial reign. As a competitor who has to go out there day after day and not get injured or have something derail your momentum? That's VERY much harder than any 16 reigns that could happen in 16 days.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Nov 21, 2014 18:03:14 GMT -5
WWE seem to be actively distancing themselves from their own history and tradition over the past few years and quite a few long-standing records have fallen in recent times. Yet conversely they try to sell that history all the time. So it could be argued that the record books jumping from Bruno Sammartino up to Cena and Roman Reigns without a stepping stone between them doesn't seem quite right, more eras should be represented. Naturally records are there to be broken and should be used to put people over but if they're all held by people on the current roster then it seems less like a historic achievement and more like a dictator using phony honours to make his crumbling regime look better.
That said I think it's stupid that Flair ever got that record, Cena makes more sense given he had a long time on top in an era with two world titles and monthly PPVs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 18:05:03 GMT -5
Cena can win the damn thing 50 more times and it won't mean a damn. It's not about how many reigns you have, especially in a sport that never has an off season. Therefore, a new champion can be crowned on every show if they want. Fact of the matter is, while both have had some really shitty reigns, Cena has more of them. Long reigning champions are so far more interesting to me given you start to root for them to do good. I'm the kind of person who likes seeing legit records get broken, so when Cena and later Punk went over a year with their reigns, it started to become intriguing. While I doubt anyone will ever touch Bruno's first reign, I'd love to see someone come incredibly close to Hogan's initial reign. As a competitor who has to go out there day after day and not get injured or have something derail your momentum? That's VERY much harder than any 16 reigns that could happen in 16 days. Oh, lord, no. In this day and age, a five year title run would absolutely murder ratings. Even a one year one creates a major sense of the show having no direction and the main event scene just spinning its wheels, five years particularly with just the one title around would absolutely kill them and every crowd in the world would be so sick of it about a quarter of the way through.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 21, 2014 18:14:23 GMT -5
To be honest, it's mainly because Cena's 'greatness' has felt more manufactured than perhaps any standard bearer ever. It's all make believe of course, but Cena has felt the make believe-yest of all to be real just because his character is just so fake.
That said, since it is all make believe, 'shrug', if he breaks the make believe record, so be it. Flair has done enough to tarnish his own legacy that getting a kayfabe accolade taken down won't matter; and people are much less apt to be up in arms about it than they were even say 6 years ago.
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Post by Nickybojelais on Nov 21, 2014 18:16:55 GMT -5
I'm more annoyed at Edge's 11 World reigns rather than Cena potentially reaching 16. At least Cena has had a couple of meaningful reigns over the past ten years.
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Post by The Tank on Nov 21, 2014 18:18:06 GMT -5
Because with all the other self-shitting he's done on his legacy, 16-time World Champion is all Ric Flair has left.
Let him have it.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Nov 21, 2014 18:22:15 GMT -5
Because with all the other self-shitting he's done on his legacy, 16-time World Champion is all Ric Flair has left. Let him have it. Cena is a better ambassador for the wrestling business than Flair, no doubt
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 21, 2014 18:22:49 GMT -5
Because with all the other self-shitting he's done on his legacy, 16-time World Champion is all Ric Flair has left. Let him have it. Not until Cena starts talking about sleeping with horses.
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Tony Schiavontay
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Nov 21, 2014 18:22:56 GMT -5
I honestly don't care. It's just a prop.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 18:24:21 GMT -5
When there were two world champions in WWE, there was not a champion. So, while I wouldn't be hung up on Flair's record to begin with, in kayfabe, I wouldn't hold it in the same light. I don't really see it. After the Supershow era, yeah, fair enough because by that point the World title basically was completely pointless, but before that I really don't see where having two titles is that big an asterisk or anything. The person was still the flagbearer of one side of the company's programming and house shows and stuff and they didn't interact much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 18:26:08 GMT -5
I honestly don't care. It's just a prop. I don't understand this line of thinking. It's the object that the entire narrative is built around - if you don't see it as having meaning then what's the point of watching?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 18:29:27 GMT -5
I'm more annoyed at Edge's 11 World reigns rather than Cena potentially reaching 16. At least Cena has had a couple of meaningful reigns over the past ten years. They're in the same boat to me. I only remember Edge winning a title and I only remember Cena losing a title. Having a few reigns that lasted a while doesn't automatically make them more meaningful.
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Post by Instant Classic on Nov 21, 2014 18:30:22 GMT -5
You really think Cena won't beat Flair's record?
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