ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Nov 21, 2014 22:34:24 GMT -5
Who was great in ring but was lacking something to complete the masterpiece?
Lance Storm-work rate was phenomenal and he could go with anyone. But he was way short on Charisma. I wish he had a speaking voice and a better mic delivery. I loved watching him and I was so stoked when I read he was going to WCW. When debuted I marked. His first yr run(was his last yr run) was incredible. Had that company been able to scale back production cost and stay afloat, he'd have been world champion. Can you imagine Storm as champ with a mouth piece like Henan? Heyman? Storm was so bad on the mic, when he was in the Impact Players, he made Justin credible look like a polished WWE upper card talent. I will always wish I got to see hm vs Bret Hart. Did he ever wrestle Benoit on TV in WWF?
Kevin Von Erich-as a Texan who learned about wrestling from world class(seriously for three years I didn't know there were wrestlers anywhere else), it is hard for me to say a bad thing about any of the boys. But Kevin missed out on the same thing Lance Storm did. He got his forgiveness from his unique style, his barefoot gear, his body was amazing and he had a handsome face that looked good on TV. He just wasn't larger than life on the mic. He spoke like an Everyman and it was relatable but to really draw in wrestling you have to present yourself with the volume turned up and Kevin never did that.
Eric Young-I love EY. He is damned entertaining. He has a great body, extremely good on the mic. He is very comfortable out there. His persona is an extension of himself and he gets sympathy so easily. He gets heat so easily. He can get heat on anybody he is in the ring with. His stuff with Flair in TNA while brief, was funny and very good. But for all of that the guy just can't escape the shadow of guys like Bobby Roode, Kurt Angle or Joe. I have no idea why it stops short with him but it does. I'm glad he won the world belt but ask yourself if Daniel Bryan had not just done it the exact same way in front of a worldwide audience, would EY have gotten the belt?
Kanyon-another guy who seemed to have it all. In wcw he was over. He was getting over in the invasion but it got lost in the names (Austin, Jercho, Booker T, Angle, undertaker)
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Nov 21, 2014 22:56:25 GMT -5
Brad Armstrong. Very good in the ring, he could just never seem to convey the personality he had in life in front of the crowds and cameras.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 21, 2014 23:21:55 GMT -5
Brad Armstrong. Very good in the ring, he could just never seem to convey the personality he had in life in front of the crowds and cameras. Great example man, Raven talked about Brad and his brother saying that it was funny that Brad was a great wrestler but didn't had any charisma, while the Road Dogg sucked as a worker but drew more money. Chris Benoit: I think that he could've drawn more money as a heel, his championship run was kinda mediocre and he never reached the top again. I think he needed a manager because he couldn't cut promos. Ron Simmons: he had a successful career but he could've achieved more if his promos were better.
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Post by berlynwright on Nov 21, 2014 23:27:49 GMT -5
Brad Armstrong. Very good in the ring, he could just never seem to convey the personality he had in life in front of the crowds and cameras. Great example man, Raven talked about Brad and his brother saying that it was funny that Brad was a great wrestler but didn't had any charisma, while the Road Dogg sucked as a worker but drew more money. Chris Benoit: I think that he could've drawn more money as a heel, his championship run was kinda mediocre and he never reached the top again. I think he needed a manager because he couldn't cut promos. Ron Simmons: he had a successful career but he could've achieved more if his promos were better. popular rumor back in the days during Benoit's main event heel run was he was only pushed to teach Rock how to work
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 23:44:08 GMT -5
Brad Armstrong was decent in the ring but not really that great. He was athletic and had all the potential, but his matches were about 75% armbars. It's uncanny how almost every sequence of moves ended with Armstrong cinching up on an armbar while staring blankly out at the crowd.
Speaking of Armstrongs, how about tag teams?
Southern Boys/Young Pistols. Steve and Tracy were big, young, athletic guys with a lot of personality, and on top of that they could talk pretty good. They had great matches with teams like the Midnight Express and the Freebirds, so what happened? Why doesn't anyone list them today as one of the great tag teams? Aside from that, neither were able to break through into the big time as singles stars either, not even midcard. For all the talking people do about Brad not having "it", he did much better than his brother Steve.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 9:58:09 GMT -5
If only I could give just a year or two of relatively good health to the Dynamite Kid during his WWF run...
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Post by Mid-Carder on Nov 22, 2014 13:08:33 GMT -5
Controversial one I'm sure but Chris Masters I always felt had some potential. He seemed to be enthusiastic and hard-working (at the beginning of his push anyway) and was, at worst, not terrible in the ring or in promos. I enjoyed his gimmick, as well. I felt that with the right opponent (Orton?) to guide him, he could have been at least a solid mid-carder.
Or maybe I just inexplicably liked the guy.
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Post by thegame415 on Nov 23, 2014 2:47:06 GMT -5
A lot of guys to debut between 2003-2007
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Post by Clawley Race on Nov 23, 2014 3:26:24 GMT -5
Lance Storm-work rate was phenomenal and he could go with anyone. But he was way short on Charisma. I wish he had a speaking voice and a better mic delivery. I loved watching him and I was so stoked when I read he was going to WCW. When debuted I marked. His first yr run(was his last yr run) was incredible. Had that company been able to scale back production cost and stay afloat, he'd have been world champion. Can you imagine Storm as champ with a mouth piece like Henan? Heyman? Storm was so bad on the mic, when he was in the Impact Players, he made Justin credible look like a polished WWE upper card talent. I will always wish I got to see hm vs Bret Hart. Did he ever wrestle Benoit on TV in WWF? I wish we could have gotten a 20 minute PPV match of Storm vs Angle circa 2000-01.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Nov 23, 2014 6:52:58 GMT -5
Ted Dibiase Jr - The guy got massively over in Legacy, but WWE screwed up after the feud with DX. Ted could go in the ring, but he didn't have the most charisma. It didn't help that WWE tried to make him like his dad, when that was not who was. All he needed was more charisma and better mic skills, because he had more than enough in ring ability.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Nov 23, 2014 9:05:36 GMT -5
Rick martel. I know he was AWA. Champion, but let's be honest here. He got that because he could work to Gagne's expectation, he was handsome and there was nobody left at that time. Rick was solid but just lacked some thing that I can't explain.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Nov 23, 2014 13:28:28 GMT -5
Jerry Lynn was great in the ring, but lacking in personality. He started developing a personality that worked for him in ECW. His low-key personality held him back.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on Nov 23, 2014 18:06:48 GMT -5
Steve Blackman. Guy had a unique martial arts style in the ring, looked like Atlas chiseled over-but just want vey string in the mic. Had a solid run, but with better mic skills he could have gone way further.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 0:08:18 GMT -5
Rick martel. I know he was AWA. Champion, but let's be honest here. He got that because he could work to Gagne's expectation, he was handsome and there was nobody left at that time. Rick was solid but just lacked some thing that I can't explain. Martel was really limited during his AWA run. Like you say, he was Verne's idea of a champion, a clean-cut Jack Brisco-esque babyface who could work, but had little personality beyond "clean cut babyface who can work". He did well with that in Strike Force, but there was no way he was going to stand out as a main eventer when larger than life personalities were starting to get over with fans. He did great with the Model, but I think again he suffered because the talent pool was just too deep and there wasn't really anywhere for him to go. Had he been able to use that gimmick in WCW, it would probably have been a different story. If we could place him in 2014, I think he would be as charismatic and as good of a performer as anyone in the business. Ted Dibiase Jr - The guy got massively over in Legacy, but WWE screwed up after the feud with DX. Ted could go in the ring, but he didn't have the most charisma. It didn't help that WWE tried to make him like his dad, when that was not who was. All he needed was more charisma and better mic skills, because he had more than enough in ring ability. To me, when I looked at Ted and Cody together, it was always clear that Cody was going to be the star. I never saw Ted pre-WWE, but I heard people had a lot of good things to say about him, so I was really surprised by how colorless he was as a performer. He tried, but he either doesn't have much of a personality, or he was so constricted by WWE writing that his personality never had a chance to break through. Jerry Lynn was great in the ring, but lacking in personality. He started developing a personality that worked for him in ECW. His low-key personality held him back. This is why WCW was clever to package him as "Mr. J.L.", a superstar second only to Lazer Tron in capturing the imaginations of fans across the globe. Why he didn't use that gimmick everywhere he went is beyond my understanding.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Nov 24, 2014 0:36:25 GMT -5
Jerry Lynn was great in the ring, but lacking in personality. He started developing a personality that worked for him in ECW. His low-key personality held him back. This is why WCW was clever to package him as "Mr. J.L.", a superstar second only to Lazer Tron in capturing the imaginations of fans across the globe. Why he didn't use that gimmick everywhere he went is beyond my understanding. Jerry Lynn says he wanted to play a masked character and he made a big list of names he'd like to use. WCW's legal team ran all of Lynn's suggestions and supposedly none of them cleared. WCW gave him the name 'Mr. JL' and Lynn hated it. Lynn had envisioned a masked character that would appeal to kids and sell a lot of merchandise, but felt the name they gave him hurt him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 3:29:22 GMT -5
"Mr. J.L." is honestly one of the most idiotic ideas for the name of a masked wrestler in the history of ever. "I have a great idea! We'll use the guy's actual initials as the name of his masked character!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 11:12:16 GMT -5
It was Jerry Lynn though. That was the problem. They looked at Jerry's list of names and thought "No, that looks entirely too entertaining. Tell you what, how about 'Mr. J.L.' ??"
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Post by Nickybojelais on Nov 24, 2014 13:44:37 GMT -5
Rick martel. I know he was AWA. Champion, but let's be honest here. He got that because he could work to Gagne's expectation, he was handsome and there was nobody left at that time. Rick was solid but just lacked some thing that I can't explain. I remember watching a shoot interview with Rick Martel, I think its still on youtube. Martel gave the impression that his outside business ventures, primarily dealing in property markets, caused the management to believe that his heart was not fully into wrestling enough to justify a big push. Its a shame because I absolutely loved his work.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 24, 2014 14:32:47 GMT -5
"Mr. J.L." is honestly one of the most idiotic ideas for the name of a masked wrestler in the history of ever. "I have a great idea! We'll use the guy's actual initials as the name of his masked character!" People might mistake "Mr. JL" for Jushin Liger.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,846
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Post by chazraps on Nov 24, 2014 14:35:37 GMT -5
Brad Armstrong. Very good in the ring, he could just never seem to convey the personality he had in life in front of the crowds and cameras. Ron Simmons: he had a successful career but he could've achieved more if his promos were better. Simmons was a stellar promo and had an incredible career. What more could he have possibly done?
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