Beniot vs Sullivan feud

[horsemen4ever]

Watching old episodes of Nitro on the Network, one of the most overlooked part of WCW in that era was the Chris Beniot / Kevin Sullivan feud. But my question who was the face, and who was the heel? Were we suppose to take sides. The Horsemen and Dungion of Doom were defacto faces thanks to the nwo, but who was the face, who was the heel?

Logic just based on Beniot being very new to the big leads, he had a cup of coffee in WCW in 92 / 93, but the mainstream didn't know him, so he didn't have much of a heel capital to hate him, Sullivan he had a lot of capital of being heel and being a hated man, so by default Beniot was the face and Sullivan was the heel. But I don't know, there were times like when Benoit and Woman sent those video tapes from over seas, I couldn't help but feel bad for Sullivan, WCW was paiting him in a sympathic light. It was a interesting time, because with anyone that is not in the nwo being the lesser of the evils, you could pick sides. The announcers didn't give much help since they were so nwo obcessed that they talked about them in non nwo matches, they didn't pick sides, they just said it is personnel. Though when Jackie came in, they made it very clear that Sullivan and Jackie they were the heel couple, Beniot and Woman were the face couple.

Tell me for real, anyone feel any sympathy for Sullivan? And please no Beniot jokes here, we all know what happened in real life, no need to go there.

[thegame415]

I preferred Sullivan's feud in Dungeon of Doom with Hulk Hoagn.

[Bishblast]

You know the saying of Sullivan booking his own divorce in real life... I don't know enough about the entire situation to say whether that's really true or not, but I always thought it to be a little fishy. That said, what I remember of this feud (and it's been a long time since I've seen any of it) is that it seemed to go on forever, with the matches being insanely stiff and especially brutal for the time. I recall the match at either BATB or GAB in 96 (I always get the two mixed up, especially in this era) being pretty mind blowing at the time. Dusty's commentary during that match f***ing had me in stitches.

[Deleted]

The Dungeon of Doom were never faces, not even relatively. They weren't even cool enough to be cheered when they were fighting off nWo oppression side by side with the good guys. The Horsemen were no different than they had ever been, the cool heels who fans cheered unless they were up against the most popular babyfaces. Benoit was the crowd favorite in this feud. I know for a fact that I'm the only person on this planet who was cheering for Sullivan, because evil Danny Devito has always been a thing for me, and I was perennially irritated with 1996-99 Internet smarks who argued for Benoit holding every single title including women's and tag team.

[Deleted]

Nov 23, 2014 23:17:48 GMT -5 Bishblast said:

You know the saying of Sullivan booking his own divorce in real life... I don't know enough about the entire situation to say whether that's really true or not, but I always thought it to be a little fishy. That said, what I remember of this feud (and it's been a long time since I've seen any of it) is that it seemed to go on forever, with the matches being insanely stiff and especially brutal for the time. I recall the match at either BATB or GAB in 96 (I always get the two mixed up, especially in this era) being pretty mind blowing at the time. Dusty's commentary during that match f***ing had me in stitches.

That match was brutal for ANY time.  All you needed to do was look at both men on the following Nitro and count their bruises.  Probably not since StarrCade '83 had there been a match that brutal on wrestling PPV in America.

[horsemen4ever]

I always thought after Sullivan was retired, he should comeback to mentor Raven and give him advice on how to take down Beniot in order to get revenge.

[Slingshot Suplay]

I sided with Benoit because he was my favorite at the time, but those two had a hellacious feud. That retirement match is one of my favorite brawls ever.

[chazraps]

The thing to remember is that this was supposed to be a Pillman-Sullivan feud, with Sullivan wanting to work with Pillman whose material had been the most cutting edge thing in wrestling. The Pillman-Sullivan conflict, as well as Pillman's relationship to his fellow Horsemen, was supposed to make him WCW's first real anti-hero tweener character. It's uncharted territory, which is why on paper it seems so out of place, especially when Pillman left the company right after it became Pillman/Benoit vs. Dungeon, making Sullivan transition it into a full-on Benoit-Sullivan feud.

I have mixed feelings about it. While the Bash match is a classic, and they had great chemistry, the vagueness of the blurred reality eventually made it hard to follow other than "these guys HATE each other," and not even a fun cryptic Sullivan vague. Probably the biggest misstep in terms of its legacy was the amount of time they spent on Sullivan after losing the retirement match, as if they were hoping for a sympathetic crowd reaction. I think that moment, especially for those of us watching at the time, made us go "THAT'S it?" While I love long feuds in wrestling, this one did not need to go as long as it did, especially with such a stacked roster that both men could have been doing a lot more with.

The retirement conclusion really made it seem like Kevin Sullivan fan service to himself, and as much as I enjoy his booking work and respect him, bookerman, this is one moment that (even if not intentional) came off as Kevin Sullivan fan-service to himself.

[Capt Lunatic]

It's weird that Benoit stole Sullivan's wife, they sent videos out mocking him, Sullivan broke out of his Taskmaster gimmick to talk about his real life heartache in promos...yet I NEVER EVVVVVVER looked at him as the face.

I will say my favorite moment from the feud was the WW3 battle royal where Sullivan and Benoit start brawling in the aisle, the DoD and Horsemen jump out of their rings and join...then everyone is announced as being eliminated from the match.

[KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!]

Without reading through this whole thread I'll just say as a fan watching it at the time Benoit was clearly promoted as the face.

[2 time pro bowler Fred Dryer]

The blow off match was just bizarre. Not only does Sullivan lose in what I think was his hometown, he has the match well in habd, only to be betrayed by Jackie. I never understood the logic behind that. There's no reason Benoit shouldn't have gone over cleanly.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Did Sullivan put Benoit over at the end? If he did then Kevin did what was best for business despite the personal animosity, f*** he even gave him the world title as soon as he became the head booker again in 2000, to prove him that despite the fact that he hated him, that he put business first.

Things like this are why I appreciate Sullivan as a booker.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Nov 25, 2014 11:42:37 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

Did Sullivan put Benoit over at the end? If he did then Kevin did what was best for business despite the personal animosity, f*** he even gave him the world title as soon as he became the head booker again in 2000, to prove him that despite the fact that he hated him, that he put business first.

Things like this are why I appreciate Sullivan as a booker.

Uh, he gave Benoit the world title as a way of saying 'f*** NO PLEASE DON'T LEAVE US'.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Nov 25, 2014 11:49:32 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Nov 25, 2014 11:42:37 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

Did Sullivan put Benoit over at the end? If he did then Kevin did what was best for business despite the personal animosity, f*** he even gave him the world title as soon as he became the head booker again in 2000, to prove him that despite the fact that he hated him, that he put business first.

Things like this are why I appreciate Sullivan as a booker.

Uh, he gave Benoit the world title as a way of saying 'f*** NO PLEASE DON'T LEAVE US'.

Sullivan claimed that it was because he deserved it, but you're probably right also, I kinda believe Kevin when he said that he wanted to do business with Benoit, because I've never ever heard him bury Chris on any interview or anything, f*** even his friend Mike Graham said that he never understood it why Kevin never reacted violently.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Nov 25, 2014 11:53:25 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

Nov 25, 2014 11:49:32 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Uh, he gave Benoit the world title as a way of saying 'f*** NO PLEASE DON'T LEAVE US'.

Sullivan claimed that it was because he deserved it, but you're probably right also, I kinda believe Kevin when he said that he wanted to do business with Benoit, because I've never ever heard him bury Chris on any interview or anything, f*** even his friend Mike Graham said that he never understood it why Kevin never reacted violently.

I believe entirely that Sullivan wanted to do business with Benoit, but I also believe that giving a guy who was quitting the world title the night before his contract ran out was absolute desperation and idiocy. Nothing to do with respect. They were trying to keep one of the few stars they had left.

[Deleted]

Sullivan's booking gets trashed by people who don't know anything. Sullivan was one of the great minds in the business. He knew how to get people over. He was in the process of rebuilding Sid into an invincible monster so that he could use him to get a babyface over. Benoit and much of the younger talent were being built to take the baton and be main eventers, no longer WCW's future stars, but their present stars.

[OGBoardPoster2005]

What did Sullivan regarding the Benoit tragedy?

[cjh]

Nov 25, 2014 11:58:23 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Nov 25, 2014 11:53:25 GMT -5 OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 said:

Sullivan claimed that it was because he deserved it, but you're probably right also, I kinda believe Kevin when he said that he wanted to do business with Benoit, because I've never ever heard him bury Chris on any interview or anything, f*** even his friend Mike Graham said that he never understood it why Kevin never reacted violently.

I believe entirely that Sullivan wanted to do business with Benoit, but I also believe that giving a guy who was quitting the world title the night before his contract ran out was absolute desperation and idiocy. Nothing to do with respect. They were trying to keep one of the few stars they had left.

None of the guys who left (the Radicals and Shane Douglas) had contracts due to expire at that time.  They asked to leave because Sullivan was made the booker again, and Bill Busch let them walk.  Why he didn't just send them home or allow them to work anywhere except WWE, I have no idea.