what was warriors price at SS91?

[wgdj]

Warrior wasn't given a fair chance. The minute he won the title, vignettes started airing with Rude saying he was coming to get the title. He and Warrior had spent the better part of the previous year feuding over the IC title. Why on earth were they going to feud over the world title?!

Earthquake was introduced to the WWF by way of a segment in which he "crushed" Warrior. He was being built as a top heel. Hmmm. A big, heavy heel -vs- a big, strong face. It worked with Hogan and Andre and it would have worked with Warrior and Earthquake. It would have practically booked itself. Did we get that? No. Naturally, Hogan got Earthquake. What was the primary focus of mid-1990? The injury Hogan suffered at the hands of Earthquake. Go back and watch old episodes of Superstars... Hogan is mentioned more than the Ultimate Warrior. They were airing frequent segments telling fans where they could send their "get well soon" cards and letters. 

The whole thing was classic Hogan. Even when he was off filming a movie, he had to be number one.

Come SummerSlam, we have a double main event: Hogan -vs- Earthquake, the new(ish) heel who almost put Hogan out of wrestling for good; and Warrior -vs- Rude, the heel who feuded with Warrior over a lesser title for the better part of 1989.

Why didn't they just reverse things? Have Hogan injured by Rude (he could have attacked him with a weapon of some kind). While Hogan is "injured" he goes and films his movie. Every few weeks they could show a vignette mapping Hogan's recovery. Rude can go on taunting Hogan and squashing jobbers. At the same time, have Warrior and Earthquake interfering in each other's matches, having close calls to tease the audience, and then have both feuds culminate at SummerSlam. 

IMO, Warrior wasn't given a fair chance. Hogan hogged the limelight for Warrior's entire title reign. Business was down all-round, but if they had booked Warrior as champion a little (or a lot...) better, he could have slowed the decline a bit.

[Deleted]

Nov 27, 2014 5:07:56 GMT -5 wgdj said:

Warrior wasn't given a fair chance. The minute he won the title, vignettes started airing with Rude saying he was coming to get the title. He and Warrior had spent the better part of the previous year feuding over the IC title. Why on earth were they going to feud over the world title?!

Earthquake was introduced to the WWF by way of a segment in which he "crushed" Warrior. He was being built as a top heel. Hmmm. A big, heavy heel -vs- a big, strong face. It worked with Hogan and Andre and it would have worked with Warrior and Earthquake. It would have practically booked itself. Did we get that? No. Naturally, Hogan got Earthquake. What was the primary focus of mid-1990? The injury Hogan suffered at the hands of Earthquake. Go back and watch old episodes of Superstars... Hogan is mentioned more than the Ultimate Warrior. They were airing frequent segments telling fans where they could send their "get well soon" cards and letters. 

The whole thing was classic Hogan. Even when he was off filming a movie, he had to be number one.

Come SummerSlam, we have a double main event: Hogan -vs- Earthquake, the new(ish) heel who almost put Hogan out of wrestling for good; and Warrior -vs- Rude, the heel who feuded with Warrior over a lesser title for the better part of 1989.

Why didn't they just reverse things? Have Hogan injured by Rude (he could have attacked him with a weapon of some kind). While Hogan is "injured" he goes and films his movie. Every few weeks they could show a vignette mapping Hogan's recovery. Rude can go on taunting Hogan and squashing jobbers. At the same time, have Warrior and Earthquake interfering in each other's matches, having close calls to tease the audience, and then have both feuds culminate at SummerSlam. 

IMO, Warrior wasn't given a fair chance. Hogan hogged the limelight for Warrior's entire title reign. Business was down all-round, but if they had booked Warrior as champion a little (or a lot...) better, he could have slowed the decline a bit.

There is one thing in particular that I agree with about this, and that is that Vince never really seemed willing to take Hogan out of the main event picture.  Whether it was Savage, Warrior, Hitman or whoever, those guys were always #2 behind Hogan.  I'm not necessarily finding fault with that, any more than I find fault with Bischoff keeping Hogan on top in WCW when people were crying for Benoit or some other uncharismatic midget to be #1.  The bottom line is that Hogan transcended pro wrestling and brought in big business.  Savage, Warrior, Hitman, Flair, Sting, Benoit and virtually anyone else you could name were wrestling guys who drew wrestling fans, but they simply did not draw like Hogan did.

[Boo!]

Hogan was still money, of course they were going to make a big thing of him. They weren't going to lock him in a cupboard for three months in an attempt to make Warrior look good through his absence.

Warrior couldn't do the same feud with Earthquake as Warrior couldn't do 'peril', it wasn't part of his character. Hogan could sell an injury and get sympathy. Warrior would be up shaking the ropes within 30 seconds of the third Earthquake splash. Regardless of who got who: Rude or Earthquake, we'd still be sat here nearly 25 years later saying Hogan's feud was the most entertaining - because it was Hogan and Hogan was still the bigger star and could have better feuds and matches.

Look at Hogan vs Orndorff or Hogan vs Piper or Hogan vs Andre or Hogan vs Savage...

...the list goes on and on with the people of differen shapes and sizes who you could stick Hogan with and have a great feud and memorable match. I think Warrior only ever had two top feuds in his career and one of the was against Hogan. Give Hogan the Rude match and give Warrior Quake and we'd all be sat here now agreeing that Warrior was really held down by not getting Rude because the Rude vs Hogan feud stole the the show that summer.

[Deleted]

While it was kinda lame that they just rehashed Warrior vs. Rude for the World title, it wouldn't surprise me if a big reason for it was that they didn't have confidence in Warrior main eventing shows around the loop with a guy he didn't have proven in ring chemistry with. They knew Rude could make Warrior look like a million bucks despite how limited Warrior was in terms of his actual wrestling skill. Not that Earthquake couldn't have carried him to decent matches. Maybe he could have. But they knew Rude was someone they could rely on in that role. History proved that there were really only 3 opponents that resulted in decent Warrior style matches-- Rude, Hogan and Savage.

[wgdj]

Nov 27, 2014 21:15:32 GMT -5 @kudohdriver said:

While it was kinda lame that they just rehashed Warrior vs. Rude for the World title, it wouldn't surprise me if a big reason for it was that they didn't have confidence in Warrior main eventing shows around the loop with a guy he didn't have proven in ring chemistry with. They knew Rude could make Warrior look like a million bucks despite how limited Warrior was in terms of his actual wrestling skill. Not that Earthquake couldn't have carried him to decent matches. Maybe he could have. But they knew Rude was someone they could rely on in that role. History proved that there were really only 3 opponents that resulted in decent Warrior style matches-- Rude, Hogan and Savage.

His SNME match with DiBiase was pretty awesome, too.

[Deleted]

Warrior's selling is underrated. If his match at WM7 doesn't show that he could sell and tell a story then I don't know what would.

[wgdj]

Nov 28, 2014 0:09:23 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

Warrior's selling is underrated. If his match at WM7 doesn't show that he could sell and tell a story then I don't know what would.

Agreed. I'll admit I'm a huge Warrior mark, but by the time he was main eventing, he was nowhere near as bad as people say he was. His opponents are always given credit for "carrying" him, but Warrior was contributing to those matches. In many ways he had to wrestle the style that he did. In the DiBiase match that I mentioned, Warrior does a few cool moves (a backslide being one of them) and it looks weird. It's not that he doesn't execute them well, it's just that he seems more like a wrestler and less like the out of control lunatic that his character was supposed to be.

His selling, to my eyes at least, was fine. It was actually more realistic than some others from his era. 

[Boo!]

Nov 28, 2014 0:09:23 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

Warrior's selling is underrated. If his match at WM7 doesn't show that he could sell and tell a story then I don't know what would.

It weren't bad but it wasn't Hogan's level which you'd need to kick-start the feud with Earthquake.

If Hogan was in Warrior's position at the RR 91 after Savage smashed him with the sceptre, "right between the eyes!" - he'd have been stretchered out. Warrior? Down for the time it took Savage to get behind the curtain then he was running right after him.


The fundamental difference in the two characters is that Hogan being weak and vulnerable was part of his get up and Warrior being weak was seen as something that would break the character's façade. It's why Earthquake would have been a horrible feud for Warrior. Rather than have him carried off the Brother Love set by doctors, Earthquake would have been behind the curtain for no more than 8 seconds and Warrior would chase after him. It's not a criticism as such but you needed to do that for the character. Hogan had more flexibility than Warrior because he was still a 'real' person.

[Mozenrath]

I think Warrior probably had a solid point in wanting a raise, but I can't say trying to ransom it was something I'd consider the right way to go about it.

[Boo!]

Wasn't it money he felt he was owed from WM and he didn't want to go another big PPV and get screwed out of money after the event again so instead he laid down the ultimatum?

From someone who thought he was a jerk, his actions don't seen unreasonable to me here

[Citizen Snips Has Left]

Nov 27, 2014 5:07:56 GMT -5 wgdj said:

Warrior wasn't given a fair chance. The minute he won the title, vignettes started airing with Rude saying he was coming to get the title. He and Warrior had spent the better part of the previous year feuding over the IC title. Why on earth were they going to feud over the world title?!

Why wouldn't Rude want a shot at the World Title when he'd already beaten Warrior in a title match? Was he supposed to be content with being a former IC champ for the rest of his career?

[Boo!]

Options were limited. Savage was a recently deposed main eventer, DiBiase was a 'failed' main eventer from 1988 - it's not easy to know who to pair the Warrior with without them being accused of trying to give him old/rehashed main eventers.

The only options were were Rude, Perfect and Earthquake in terms of people who hadn't had a main event run yet. I don't think they wanted Warrior with Earthquake for a variety of reasons and at least Rude had the 'beaten him before' element.

[Ben Wyatt]

I don't think it was money. I think *HE* wanted to marry Macho Man in the "Match Made in Heaven"

[Boo!]

Nov 28, 2014 11:56:17 GMT -5 Ben Wyatt said:

I don't think it was money. I think *HE* wanted to marry Macho Man in the "Match Made in Heaven"

Warrior: I want in on the Savage thing
Vince: But..but Savage isn't in a match.
Warrior: I know but I NEED him.
Vince: Jim, listen to what you're saying. That stuff it...it doesn't make the world work, you know that right?

[quackyquack1]

Hogan drew better than Warrior in '90 because he was in the stronger storyline, and putting the blame on Warrior for buyrates when Hogan co-headlined Summerslam and who the champion was had nothing to do w/ Survivor Series buyrate is wrong. By the way, the '90 Survivor Series was the most financially successful one until '98. Live attendance went down but that was because other than Hogan/Earthquake there were no other feuds that were hot enough to draw big crowds. Warrior/Rude was overshadowed by the Hogan/Earthquake injury angle and LOD/Warrior vs. Demolition wasn't seen as a main event program, especially considering that Demolition were getting phased out after LOD arrived. Look at the buildup towards Summerslam, Hogan's matchup was treated as the true main event of the show. As a matter of fact if Rude/Warrior didn't have the cage match stipulation it's very likely that Hogan would've went on last. The Rude/Warrior Cage Match was already being pushed on TV before their SNME match had even aired, that SNME drew a 7.2, should Warrior get the blame for that? No, Hogan's return was what was heavily advertised going in that show, so Hogan was responsible for that. Hogan didn't need the belt to draw, when he feuded w/Bossman he didn't have the belt then either and it didn't effect his drawing power at all.

Also did Warrior/Undertaker not draw better crowds than the Hogan/Slaughter title program in '91? All this "it was difficult for Warrior to do as well as Hogan" shit is all it is, shit, because Warrior was actually in the hottest drawing program in mid '91, not Hogan. Hogan wanted Warrior to fail as champion so he could get it back on his waist but it backfired, and even worse for Hogan was that unlike Warrior's programs in '90, the Hogan/Slaughter program had heavy buildup on TV. Hogan not doing well w/ Slaughter was not because "the business was declining regardless and nothing could be done about it", it was simply because Warrior/Undertaker was a more interesting storyline. The Gulf War was over by then, so fans weren't interested in that program, but even leading up to WM7 it wasn't drawing, proof is venue change and the # of buys for that show.

Financially things didn't go bad for WWE until mid '92, Flair/Savage was pushed as a hot title program yet the average attendance for those matches was less than 4K fans, Warrior/Shango actually drew better and that was w/a worse storyline compared to Flair/Savage.

[Boo!]

The fact Warrior may have had the most interesting and popular feud of the summer of 1991 is not related at all to the fact he didn't draw that well as champion throughout 1990. The Slaughter feud was probably responsible for much of the decline in overall audience at the time because of the negative publicity WWE got from it.

But why is it that in 1990 Hogan having the most interesting feud and not being champion is Hogan's fault and in 1991 Warrior having the most interesting feud and not being champion is also Hogan's fault?

It's also very possible that it was the Undertaker hook that meant the feud drew more, in the Warrior DVD he spoke of Taker becoming nervous at the pops he was getting as heel, to which Warrior allayed those fears and said it just means the character was getting over. It's probably the only time the two (Hogan and Warrior) have been with the same company and Warrior's house shows drew better than Hogan's. In that case you've got to look at why. Hogan was involved in a character that was driving people away from wrestling -Warrior was in a feud with an evil heel who was getting babyface reactions in an era where such a thing was pretty unheard of.

[Ryushinku]

Nov 28, 2014 0:06:21 GMT -5 wgdj said:

His SNME match with DiBiase was pretty awesome, too.

I'd seen a few of their others and found them pretty mediocre.

But that one? Yeah, agreed; both Warrior's pre-match promo and the bout itself are good ones and sadly not remembered much. Warrior's big dramatic sell job afterwards is tremendous.

[Boo!]

I'd have pitted Warrior against the Heenan family as opposed to just one member of it. Have vs Perfect during a SNME and have regular run-in beat downs from Barbarian, Haku and whoever else he had. Similar in a way to what they'd do with Bossman almost immediately after. Have Heenan's guys cost him matches on TV etc.

[Deleted]

After watching some matches, I don't get the notion that Hogan was better at selling than Warrior. Hogan's selling was dramatic and cartoony, the same as Warrior's. Then, there was never any doubt whatsoever that he was finally going to hit his damage threshold and start Hulking up, then come back and hit the big legdrop. As a kid, there were only three guys who I felt posed any real threat to Hogan: 1) Orndorff '86, 2) Zeus, 3) Sid '92. Every other match just seemed like going through the motions of Hogan letting them beat him up so that he could go into invincible mode and win the match.

[Boo!]

That was Hogan's gimmick though. It didn't matter it was the same match every time because it was Hogan. I don't think the fans empathised with Warrior as much. Warrior was more this character who it was awesome to see and exciting to see but I think he struggled in terms of engaging people into his feuds and matches which is why a lot of the time his appearances were kept brief.

There's also a huge difference in the selling in that Hogan could sell for a match and then Hulk-up nearer the end. Warrior would have mini 'hulk ups', for lack of a better word, almost constantly throughout a beat down and therefore it lacked realism. Not that Hogan becoming impervious to pain suddenly was realistic but it was more so because he'd get the beat down and then Hulk-up. Watch Warrior matches and usually there are mini-hulk-ups all over the place.

Warrior's appeal was in his look, his music and his maniac persona. I think people loved to see the Warrior but they cared for Hogan and that's why it was easier to get people to part with their money when it came to a Hogan feud vs a Warrior feud, by and large. It's why I think reverse the opponents in 1990 and we'd probably be all agreeing how awesome the Hogan/Rude feud was and what a disappointment the Earthquake/Warrior feud was.

Let's not forget that a big part of the Quake/Hogan feud was the need for Hogan to take time off. He'd be gone from May 26th through 28th July. How could you replicate the same angle with the Warrior and still have him on house shows and on TV? People paint it as favourtism but the Earthquake angle was done to yes build heat but also get Hogan off TV.

Warrior who had only just won the title and only just got the top spot was being pushed hard, so why would you take him off the road and off TV for two months? If you're not then even doing the feud with Earthquake would have been a waste of time. He'd have taken the Earthquake splashes on the Brother Love show then 8 seconds later got up and chased after him.