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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 9:00:43 GMT -5
So how many wrestlers has this f***ing idiot injured? No wonder this stubborn spot monkey never went to WWE. Hope Tatsu will be okay. I f***ing despise AJ Styles, but you can't really blame him for this.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 26, 2014 9:13:10 GMT -5
I f***ing despise AJ Styles, but you can't really blame him for this. You can blame him for keeping the move in his moveset after it started to injure people on the indy scene, guys with decades of experience so know how to take moves without getting injured, yet it's that mess of a move that shelves them. It's not a great looking move, it's not one his moveset would be devastated without as he's a talented guy but it's an incredibly difficult move to take and just isn't worth the risk to his opponents long term health.
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Post by 67 more on Nov 26, 2014 9:16:46 GMT -5
I f***ing despise AJ Styles, but you can't really blame him for this. I can blame him for keeping the move in his moveset after it started to injure people on the indy scene. It's not a great looking move, it's not one his moveset would be devastated without as he's a talented guy but it's an incredibly difficult move to take and just isn't worth the risk to his opponents long term health. It's not a difficult move to take at all. There's one thing to do, don't tuck your chin.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 9:26:20 GMT -5
I f***ing despise AJ Styles, but you can't really blame him for this. You can blame him for keeping the move in his moveset after it started to injure people on the indy scene, I dexperience so know how to take moves without getting injured, yet it's that mess of a move that shelves them. It's not a great looking move, it's not one his moveset would be devastated without as he's a talented guy but it's an incredibly difficult move to take and just isn't worth the risk to his opponents long term health. You can blame AJ for the move looking unique but absolutely stupid and harmless, but you can't blame him for using it or for Yoshi or Roderick's injuries. I think he should stop using the move now out of a combination of respect/the fact that it's shit, but I don't blame him for using it up til now or their injuries. At all. And again, I can't post defending Styles without once again pointing out how much I hate his guts, and that I'm holding myself back from ranting more about him as a person for fear of angering a mod.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 26, 2014 9:29:46 GMT -5
It's not a difficult move to take at all. There's one thing to do, don't tuck your chin. Yet it's shelving people with decades of experience, guys who've been all around the indy scene, even working the brutal WWE schedule without serious injury. It's not a great looking move even taken correctly so he needs to drop it before someone ends up in a wheelchair... Which, I'm sure he'll blame them for like he did Roddy Strong and Lionheart on Jericho's podcast.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 9:35:21 GMT -5
It's not a difficult move to take at all. There's one thing to do, don't tuck your chin. Yet it's shelving people with decades of experience, guys who've been all around the indy scene, even working the brutal WWE schedule without serious injury. It's not a great looking move even taken correctly so he needs to drop it before someone ends up in a wheelchair... Which, I'm sure he'll blame them for like he did Roddy Strong and Lionheart on Jericho's podcast. The years of experience are part of the problem. It's the reason the divas Michelle McCool wrestled never got hurt with the move but the guys AJ are wrestling do. Because they've got years of muscle memory and wrestling instincts screaming "TUCK YOUR CHIN!" all the time and they didn't overcome that in the moment after wrestling long ass matches.
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King Koopa
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Post by 67 more on Nov 26, 2014 9:38:03 GMT -5
It's not a difficult move to take at all. There's one thing to do, don't tuck your chin. Yet it's shelving people with decades of experience, guys who've been all around the indy scene, even working the brutal WWE schedule without serious injury. It's not a great looking move even taken correctly so he needs to drop it before someone ends up in a wheelchair... Which, I'm sure he'll blame them for like he did Roddy Strong and Lionheart on Jericho's podcast. I am by no means a veteran but I know how to take a Styles Clash and have took it quite a few times. If people are scared of taking the Clash, they shouldn't take it. A chokeslam isn't a dangerous move but if you bump wrong, it's going to hurt you (look at Batista). In regards towards blaming them, if they tuck their chin, it's their fault. It's the same as if you stopped posting during a bodyslam and ended up landing straight on your head. Take the move right and you won't get hurt.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Nov 26, 2014 10:01:20 GMT -5
I have always hated the move. Always. So I think the general consensus is that wrestlers need to go against muscle memory from what they've been trained to take the finisher. That said, how many wrestlers have been injured? I don't need to hear how many HAVEN'T been injured. Completely irrelevant.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Nov 26, 2014 10:26:13 GMT -5
Amazing how the pack of rats are out to make AJ the scapegoat when he's doing nothing wrong at all, I've seen The Clash, up close and personal as well and everytime he did it perfectly. He's done it on guys of all shapes and sizes including Minoru Suzuki, Abyss, and others. Lionheart admitted he lied to AJ about knowing how to take the move, and Yoshi claimed it was all his fault as well cause they didn't know what to do and tucked their heads in.
If you're too stubborn or stupid enough to not know how to take the move or practice it with him, then perhaps you deserve to have your neck broken.
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Post by rowdy426 on Nov 26, 2014 10:34:22 GMT -5
Reposting my thoughts from other areas on the web... gotten a little feedback there...
I watched the Yoshi Tatsu gif multiple times last night, trying to figure out what happened...
Did Yoshi tuck his chin, as is natural instinct of a wrestler? Yes. But that isn't the problem with the move.
Watch the way AJ drops in the Clash. From my perspective on the Yoshi botch gif, AJ simply drops to his knees and leans forward... He has ZERO control over Yoshi's center of gravity, in his hips. So, while Yoshi's legs are coming forward, the rest of his body is coming straight down as AJ drops to his knees.
Now, watch Cesaro's Neutralizer... it is essentially the same bump for the recipient, except that Cesaro never loses control of the two most vital parts of his opponent's body: the neck, and the hips. Cesaro's legs keep the opponent's neck covered and protected when he drops, and the locked arms around the hip secure them so that when Cesaro drops, he can throw the opponents hips forward, sending the center of gravity, from the hips up to the chest and neck, down onto the mat AT THE SAME TIME... spread out the bump over the maximum space, minimal injury.
During AJ's Styles Clash, he has control over NEITHER of these parts of the body.
I'm nowhere near an expert on the situation, but these are my observations.
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Post by rowdy426 on Nov 26, 2014 10:40:41 GMT -5
Amazing how the pack of rats are out to make AJ the scapegoat when he's doing nothing wrong at all, I've seen The Clash, up close and personal as well and everytime he did it perfectly. He's done it on guys of all shapes and sizes including Minoru Suzuki, Abyss, and others. Lionheart admitted he lied to AJ about knowing how to take the move, and Yoshi claimed it was all his fault as well cause they didn't know what to do and tucked their heads in. If you're too stubborn or stupid enough to not know how to take the move or practice it with him, then perhaps you deserve to have your neck broken. Sorry for the double post... But to wish that on someone is a horrible thing to say; it's scary enough getting put into any piledriver-like position.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Nov 26, 2014 10:43:41 GMT -5
And people seem to forget that Yoshi was reported as just with an injured neck after it, a week later he faces Okada who puts him in the Red Ink. Do you think that the match may have aggravated the injury and made it worse hmmm?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 10:48:40 GMT -5
Reposting my thoughts from other areas on the web... gotten a little feedback there... I watched the Yoshi Tatsu gif multiple times last night, trying to figure out what happened... Did Yoshi tuck his chin, as is natural instinct of a wrestler? Yes. But that isn't the problem with the move. Watch the way AJ drops in the Clash. From my perspective on the Yoshi botch gif, AJ simply drops to his knees and leans forward... He has ZERO control over Yoshi's center of gravity, in his hips. So, while Yoshi's legs are coming forward, the rest of his body is coming straight down as AJ drops to his knees. Now, watch Cesaro's Neutralizer... it is essentially the same bump for the recipient, except that Cesaro never loses control of the two most vital parts of his opponent's body: the neck, and the hips. Cesaro's legs keep the opponent's neck covered and protected when he drops, and the locked arms around the hip secure them so that when Cesaro drops, he can throw the opponents hips forward, sending the center of gravity, from the hips up to the chest and neck, down onto the mat AT THE SAME TIME... spread out the bump over the maximum space, minimal injury. During AJ's Styles Clash, he has control over NEITHER of these parts of the body. I'm nowhere near an expert on the situation, but these are my observations. I can't help but feel that moment where before AJ makes his leap and already smacks the top of Yoshi's head against the mat probably sends a shock to the system too. It's a real moral conundrum. I recognize the move when you think of it is pretty stupid, I didn't like it at first but it's kind of grown on me, it's an iconic move and it's cool looking, and just doesn't seem like it's difficult to take. But when the line between doing it right and getting a broken neck is so small it's tough to argue against just putting it away. If I'm AJ Styles I don't know if I'd even feel comfortable doing it at this point. At the same time he's not just springing it on people, these guys are agreeing to take the move so you really can't just pin it on AJ.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Nov 26, 2014 10:51:54 GMT -5
Amazing how the pack of rats are out to make AJ the scapegoat when he's doing nothing wrong at all, I've seen The Clash, up close and personal as well and everytime he did it perfectly. He's done it on guys of all shapes and sizes including Minoru Suzuki, Abyss, and others. Lionheart admitted he lied to AJ about knowing how to take the move, and Yoshi claimed it was all his fault as well cause they didn't know what to do and tucked their heads in. If you're too stubborn or stupid enough to not know how to take the move or practice it with him, then perhaps you deserve to have your neck broken. Sorry for the double post... But to wish that on someone is a horrible thing to say; it's scary enough getting put into any piledriver-like position. Wrestling is like a two man dance, you have to know what to do and how to take moves correctly so nothing happens to you or the other guy. Why do you think in some training places like The New Japan Dojo the instructors perform the moves the wrong way on you to make sure you understand what you have to do right when you do and take it so you won't risk hurting yourself or your opponent. They didn't know how to take it, nor did they simply go up to him or say "Hey, I've never taken The Clash before. Mind if we practice it a few times before we have our match so I know what to do?" At best it would've taken ten minutes for them to understand what they have to do in it to avoid risking getting hurt.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Nov 26, 2014 10:52:59 GMT -5
Oh f*** off Styles. You're one of my all time favorites but it's beyond ridiculous how many guys have gotten hurt. Retire the damn move, dude. You mean to tell me you couldn't end matches with the Superman 450 or the Spiral Tap or that whacky Springboard DDT or any other 100 exciting moves you had?
And yes, I understand that the reason the move is botched more often than not is because the guy taking it has to go against their natural instincts. Still, shouldn't that say something? If it's getting to the point where several guys have gotten hurt in like two years, obviously the move isn't worth doing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 10:59:54 GMT -5
Why does it even matter anymore who's at fault it's a stupid move that people get injured during.
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Jeff Mangum PI
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Nov 26, 2014 11:01:52 GMT -5
Would it be more or less dangerous if the dude just switched to using Bloody Sunday as his finisher?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 11:04:16 GMT -5
Would it be more or less dangerous if the dude just switched to using Bloody Sunday as his finisher? Looks better and i don't remember hearing about anyone getting hurt on it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 11:15:00 GMT -5
Another thing to consider is that you can say the move is safe, that all you have to do is not tuck your chin, but we're looking at it from the viewpoint of just taking the one move.
Imagine wrestling an exhausting 10-20 minute or more match where you've already taken several big bumps. After that, the likelihood of making a mistake, both in giving and taking the move, goes up.
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Nov 26, 2014 11:16:35 GMT -5
I've never seen people come out of the woodwoorks like this with this kind of hate for AJ Styles.
One, the move is a bit sketchy, but this only started happening in the last year. AJ's been using that move for around a decade before with no reported injuries from anyone, and now some of you are calling him a dangerous spot monkey who deserves to have his neck broken.
Wow.
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