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Post by mcmahonfan85 on May 7, 2015 11:20:12 GMT -5
what's the beef is what often happens in wrestling: fans get behind a wrestler and want the promotion to push them, the promotion pushes them, and the fans turn on them. it happened to guys like Tyler Black, Davey Richards, Nigel McGuinness, WGTT, etc. in ROH, it happened to Cena in WWE not long after he won the title back in 2005 and the most recent victim is Roman Reigns, and its happened to guys like Kane, Big Show and Mark Henry at least a dozen times (with the weird part being when the fans love Henry, a large number of people on here talk about how they've always been fans of Mark Henry and are glad to seem him pushed, but when the fans turn on Henry, the same people deny every being fans of his and want to know why he's still signed to WWE).
unfortunately with the ROH guys, some of them do something stupid that the fans use to retroactively justify turning on them, such as fans saying they hate Davey Richards because he ripped off that promoter, even though it happened after his reign as ROH World Champion which is when they turned on him. for Elgin the unspeakable acts are him not being overly ecstatic and trilled at not getting booked by New Japan, the situation that went down between him at ROH at the end of his world title run that was later turned into a worked-shoot. both of these happened after the fans started to turn on him, which was at War of the Worlds last year when he told ROH and New Japan officials to change the scheduled AJ Styles vs. Elgin for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship into Styles vs. Elgin vs. Kazuchika Okada for the IWGP Hevyweight Championship (the fans wanted Styles and Okada in a singles match after Okada's match with Cedric Alexander was axed, but Elgin was already booked into the match so f*** him!)
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Post by Mondai Rogue on May 7, 2015 11:24:21 GMT -5
what's the beef is what often happens in wrestling: fans get behind a wrestler and want the promotion to push them, the promotion pushes them, and the fans turn on them. it happened to guys like Tyler Black, Davey Richards, Nigel McGuinness, WGTT, etc. in ROH, it happened to Cena in WWE not long after he won the title back in 2005 and the most recent victim is Roman Reigns, and its happened to guys like Kane, Big Show and Mark Henry at least a dozen times (with the weird part being when the fans love Henry, a large number of people on here talk about how they've always been fans of Mark Henry and are glad to seem him pushed, but when the fans turn on Henry, the same people deny every being fans of his and want to know why he's still signed to WWE). unfortunately with the ROH guys, some of them do something stupid that the fans use to retroactively justify turning on them, such as fans saying they hate Davey Richards because he ripped off that promoter, even though it happened after his reign as ROH World Champion which is when they turned on him. for Elgin the unspeakable acts are him not being overly ecstatic and trilled at not getting booked by New Japan, the situation that went down between him at ROH at the end of his world title run that was later turned into a worked-shoot. both of these happened after the fans started to turn on him, which was at War of the Worlds last year when he told ROH and New Japan officials to change the scheduled AJ Styles vs. Elgin for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship into Styles vs. Elgin vs. Kazuchika Okada for the IWGP Hevyweight Championship (the fans wanted Styles and Okada in a singles match after Okada's match with Cedric Alexander was axed, but Elgin was already booked into the match so f*** him!) Elgin also claiming he was going to start charging to appear on podcasts made him come off as a dick. Just adding that there.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on May 7, 2015 11:31:12 GMT -5
It just occurred to me randomly today: what the hell ever became of the Bravado Brothers? I know they did a lot of back and forth between ROH and Japan before, have they made a home out of Japan? I loved their gimmick. they signed with DGUSA/EVOLVE in 2013 and had a run as the DGUSA tag champs which lasted close to a year, but Gabe stopped booking them at the start of the year to "freshen up the roster". i figured ROH would bring them in because Delirious trained them and because of their history with Moose (he was their hired muscle in EVOLVE), but it looks like for the past four months all they've been doing is working around the Carolinas
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on May 7, 2015 14:24:05 GMT -5
Throwback Thursday:
Michael Bennett vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi "War of the Worlds" May 17, 2014 New York, NY
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,097
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on May 7, 2015 17:33:33 GMT -5
what's the beef is what often happens in wrestling: fans get behind a wrestler and want the promotion to push them, the promotion pushes them, and the fans turn on them. it happened to guys like Tyler Black, Davey Richards, Nigel McGuinness, WGTT, etc. in ROH, it happened to Cena in WWE not long after he won the title back in 2005 and the most recent victim is Roman Reigns, and its happened to guys like Kane, Big Show and Mark Henry at least a dozen times (with the weird part being when the fans love Henry, a large number of people on here talk about how they've always been fans of Mark Henry and are glad to seem him pushed, but when the fans turn on Henry, the same people deny every being fans of his and want to know why he's still signed to WWE). unfortunately with the ROH guys, some of them do something stupid that the fans use to retroactively justify turning on them, such as fans saying they hate Davey Richards because he ripped off that promoter, even though it happened after his reign as ROH World Champion which is when they turned on him. for Elgin the unspeakable acts are him not being overly ecstatic and trilled at not getting booked by New Japan, the situation that went down between him at ROH at the end of his world title run that was later turned into a worked-shoot. both of these happened after the fans started to turn on him, which was at War of the Worlds last year when he told ROH and New Japan officials to change the scheduled AJ Styles vs. Elgin for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship into Styles vs. Elgin vs. Kazuchika Okada for the IWGP Hevyweight Championship (the fans wanted Styles and Okada in a singles match after Okada's match with Cedric Alexander was axed, but Elgin was already booked into the match so f*** him!) To an extent I think it's harsh to say that. Yes there will always be people who like to seem cool and just go along with the flavour of the month but there are people who have simply never liked Henry and didn't even like him during his Hall of Pain run. You also have people like me who thought Henry was useless until his Hall of Pain run where I saw how good he could actually be. It's the same for ROH guys. For someone like Davey I always despised him as a singles competitor. I didn't mind the American Wolves as a team but whenever Davey would wrestle singles I would groan. He has had several really good singles matches though so I can admit that he has that potential (two best examples would be vs. Eddie at BITW '11 and Elgin at SITS). Speaking of whom that brings me on to Elgin. As an up and comer I thought he had a unique style and thought to myself that I'd have to keep my eye on him. After a while I started talking about how ROH should push this guy, specifically after his match with Davey. Then he got pushed and I started to notice that once you've seen one Elgin match you've seen them all and that his psychology (which can be written off for a match here or there depending on the style) in longer matches is non-existent. He is the Shelton Benjamin of ROH in that I thought he should be pushed, then when he was I saw why maybe they hadn't pushed him sooner. My general point is the IWC isn't some hivemind that collectively just decides to turn on a wrestler. We're all different people with differing opinions, of course there's always going to be a general consensus but that doesn't mean that people turn on a wrestler just because they see others doing so and it also doesn't mean that just because you do turn on a wrestler it is just because he's getting a push and fans don't like pushed guys.
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Post by Mayonnaise on May 7, 2015 17:46:30 GMT -5
Elgin also had the misfortune of being the one to take the title off of Adam Cole when he was white hot, while Elgin had become a frozen dog turd.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on May 8, 2015 11:12:34 GMT -5
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SUPES
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,373
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Post by SUPES on May 8, 2015 13:51:05 GMT -5
what's the beef is what often happens in wrestling: fans get behind a wrestler and want the promotion to push them, the promotion pushes them, and the fans turn on them. it happened to guys like Tyler Black, Davey Richards, Nigel McGuinness, WGTT, etc. in ROH, it happened to Cena in WWE not long after he won the title back in 2005 and the most recent victim is Roman Reigns, and its happened to guys like Kane, Big Show and Mark Henry at least a dozen times (with the weird part being when the fans love Henry, a large number of people on here talk about how they've always been fans of Mark Henry and are glad to seem him pushed, but when the fans turn on Henry, the same people deny every being fans of his and want to know why he's still signed to WWE). unfortunately with the ROH guys, some of them do something stupid that the fans use to retroactively justify turning on them, such as fans saying they hate Davey Richards because he ripped off that promoter, even though it happened after his reign as ROH World Champion which is when they turned on him. for Elgin the unspeakable acts are him not being overly ecstatic and trilled at not getting booked by New Japan, the situation that went down between him at ROH at the end of his world title run that was later turned into a worked-shoot. both of these happened after the fans started to turn on him, which was at War of the Worlds last year when he told ROH and New Japan officials to change the scheduled AJ Styles vs. Elgin for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship into Styles vs. Elgin vs. Kazuchika Okada for the IWGP Hevyweight Championship (the fans wanted Styles and Okada in a singles match after Okada's match with Cedric Alexander was axed, but Elgin was already booked into the match so f*** him!) You have zero clue in how to analyze this, as what you just posted has as much substance as a "Haters gonna hate" tweet posted by the lowest common denominator. Tyler Black - the backlash was solely due to ROH pussyfooting around with his rise to the top as pointed out by Gabe Sapolsky Davey Richards - Meltzer put it best www.f4wonline.com/component/content/article/23555-january-2-observer-newsletter-huge-business-year-in-review-issues-roh-ippv-overeem-vs-lesnar-preview-tons-of-news{Spoiler} Nigel McGuinness - this was the only example you listed in which the fans ARE to blame, as they failed to understand that he was dealing with very severe concussion issues and couldn't be patient enough to wait for him to be cleared despite him having a classic defense against Austin Aries, or even a couple months before when the card was more than made up for with Marufuji vs. Castagnoli, Danielson vs. Morishima III, and f***ing Misawa vs. KENTA WGTT - what exactly do you expect when they fail to live up to their debut match against KOW and can't come close to their 2003 run? What do you expect when they go through the motions and phone it in for a significant portion of their ROH run, showcasing a very obvious lack of enthusiasm? The reason for their backlash is best summed up with their match against El Generico & Colt Cabana, and I'll C&P some reviews of that match courtesy Wrestling Forum: www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/529232-official-indy-dvd-thread-413.html{Spoiler}
John Cena - listening to the Lapsed Fan's revisits of WM20 and WM21 will make it clear for you. He lost his edginess and became white-meat, while clearly not being the most seasoned in-ring performer to even the dumbest stereotypical smark compared to the stacked roster of the time that consisted of Angle, Benoit, HBK, Eddie, Mysterio, Jericho, etc. After several years of bad-asses on top such as Rock, Austin, Attitude Era DX, non-comedy Angle, Lesnar, Evolution, etc., it's only natural for some of the loyal fans to reject a character that had become so one-dimensional. Roman Reigns - does this one even really need to be explained? Like Black/Rollins in ROH, this is all the fault of the booking for one of the most counterproductive layouts of a Rumble match in many, many, many years, putting him in plodding, neverending matches on TV with Rollins and the f***ing Big Show, giving him TERRIBLE material to work with on the stick, and pushing him with all the organic subtlety of brick to the skull. Michael Elgin - see Davey Richards. Next time before blaming the fans, take a moment to actually look at the circumstances. The promoters are supposed to be magicians in working the fans, not the other way around.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on May 8, 2015 14:37:08 GMT -5
what's the beef is what often happens in wrestling: fans get behind a wrestler and want the promotion to push them, the promotion pushes them, and the fans turn on them. it happened to guys like Tyler Black, Davey Richards, Nigel McGuinness, WGTT, etc. in ROH, it happened to Cena in WWE not long after he won the title back in 2005 and the most recent victim is Roman Reigns, and its happened to guys like Kane, Big Show and Mark Henry at least a dozen times (with the weird part being when the fans love Henry, a large number of people on here talk about how they've always been fans of Mark Henry and are glad to seem him pushed, but when the fans turn on Henry, the same people deny every being fans of his and want to know why he's still signed to WWE). unfortunately with the ROH guys, some of them do something stupid that the fans use to retroactively justify turning on them, such as fans saying they hate Davey Richards because he ripped off that promoter, even though it happened after his reign as ROH World Champion which is when they turned on him. for Elgin the unspeakable acts are him not being overly ecstatic and trilled at not getting booked by New Japan, the situation that went down between him at ROH at the end of his world title run that was later turned into a worked-shoot. both of these happened after the fans started to turn on him, which was at War of the Worlds last year when he told ROH and New Japan officials to change the scheduled AJ Styles vs. Elgin for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship into Styles vs. Elgin vs. Kazuchika Okada for the IWGP Hevyweight Championship (the fans wanted Styles and Okada in a singles match after Okada's match with Cedric Alexander was axed, but Elgin was already booked into the match so f*** him!) You have zero clue in how to analyze this, as what you just posted has as much substance as a "Haters gonna hate" tweet posted by the lowest common denominator. Tyler Black - the backlash was solely due to ROH pussyfooting around with his rise to the top as pointed out by Gabe Sapolsky Davey Richards - Meltzer put it best www.f4wonline.com/component/content/article/23555-january-2-observer-newsletter-huge-business-year-in-review-issues-roh-ippv-overeem-vs-lesnar-preview-tons-of-newsNigel McGuinness - this was the only example you listed in which the fans ARE to blame, as they failed to understand that he was dealing with very severe concussion issues and couldn't be patient enough to wait for him to be cleared despite him having a classic defense against Austin Aries, or even a couple months before when the card was more than made up for with Marufuji vs. Castagnoli, Danielson vs. Morishima III, and f***ing Misawa vs. KENTA WGTT - what exactly do you expect when they fail to live up to their debut match against KOW and can't come close to their 2003 run? What do you expect when they go through the motions and phone it in for a significant portion of their ROH run, showcasing a very obvious lack of enthusiasm? The reason for their backlash is best summed up with their match against El Generico & Colt Cabana, and I'll C&P some reviews of that match courtesy Wrestling Forum: www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/529232-official-indy-dvd-thread-413.htmlJohn Cena - listening to the Lapsed Fan's revisits of WM20 and WM21 will make it clear for you. He lost his edginess and became white-meat, while clearly not being the most seasoned in-ring performer to even the dumbest stereotypical smark compared to the stacked roster of the time that consisted of Angle, Benoit, HBK, Eddie, Mysterio, Jericho, etc. After several years of bad-asses on top such as Rock, Austin, Attitude Era DX, non-comedy Angle, Lesnar, Evolution, etc., it's only natural for some of the loyal fans to reject a character that had become so one-dimensional. Roman Reigns - does this one even really need to be explained? Like Black/Rollins in ROH, this is all the fault of the booking for one of the most counterproductive layouts of a Rumble match in many, many, many years, putting him in plodding, neverending matches on TV with Rollins and the f***ing Big Show, giving him TERRIBLE material to work with on the stick, and pushing him with all the organic subtlety of brick to the skull. Michael Elgin - see Davey Richards. Next time before blaming the fans, take a moment to actually look at the circumstances. The promoters are supposed to be magicians in working the fans, not the other way around. uh, what i said was: fans are behind the wrestler, the promotion pushes them, they are no longer behind the wrestler. never said haters gonna hate, i said the fans turn on wrestlers. did the fans not turn on Tyler Black, Davey Richards, Nigel McGuinness, etc? the wrestlers fault, the promotions fault, the fans fault (which i never said or insinuated), it doesn't changed the fact fans went from liking someone to not liking them. my point wasn't its all the fans fault, it was 1) that there is no specific "beef", fans can just be fickle (is it a coincidince that for almost eight years the fans have turned on almost all babyface ROH World Champions), and 2) fans will try to use a specific incident to justify turning on a wrestler even though said incident happened well after they soured on the wrestler. way to get pissy over nothing
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on May 9, 2015 16:13:23 GMT -5
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 9, 2015 20:17:23 GMT -5
yeah I don't agree with fans turning on everybody. Guys like Black and Elgin by the time ROH pulled the trigger the fans just didn't care anymore, and with Davey people started turning on him once he kept talking about retirement every year and people caught on that he wasn't actually serious. People really didn't turn fully until the Team Ambition crap started. Hell I don't think people were all that interested in an Elgin reign after he didn't beat Steen in Canada and I think by the time he lost to Cole in the tourny final most just saw him as a loser anymore.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on May 9, 2015 21:34:29 GMT -5
Chris Sabin is a fantastic douchebag heel. I've known that for a while but I'm seeing him on ROH TV for the first time and am reminded of that fact.
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Post by ________ has left the building on May 10, 2015 6:43:14 GMT -5
Chris Sabin is a fantastic douchebag heel. I've known that for a while but I'm seeing him on ROH TV for the first time and am reminded of that fact. All hail, Fail Sabin.
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lovingway
El Dandy
Crimson and Clover
Posts: 8,135
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Post by lovingway on May 10, 2015 15:12:42 GMT -5
Did Tomasso really leave the company or is it just storyline purposes?
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Post by Mayonnaise on May 10, 2015 15:14:30 GMT -5
Did Tomasso really leave the company or is it just storyline purposes? Done with ROH at least for now.
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lovingway
El Dandy
Crimson and Clover
Posts: 8,135
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Post by lovingway on May 10, 2015 19:06:21 GMT -5
Did Tomasso really leave the company or is it just storyline purposes? Done with ROH at least for now. That sucks. Any reason why?
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Dragonfly
Samurai Cop
...is no Barry Windham.
Posts: 2,489
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Post by Dragonfly on May 11, 2015 0:59:19 GMT -5
More "fun" with WATL in Atlanta: Instead of getting the IPPV hype, we got nine minutes of dead air to protest poor 911 service. I'm not saying it isn't an important issue. It's just that it could have been done during a more mainstream show. Cutting nine minutes out of a wrestling program airing at midnight on a Saturday against Saturday Night Live isn't going to raise awareness. It's just going drive your comparatively small fan base to NBC and/or the ROH website.
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Post by Heinz Doofenschmirtz on May 11, 2015 10:06:55 GMT -5
From the review of the WGTT/Cabana&Generico match:
This is the Internettiest Internet thing today.
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Post by Mayonnaise on May 11, 2015 10:29:35 GMT -5
ROH gets national clearance, sorta:
RING OF HONOR CLEARS NESN NATIONALLY by Mike Johnson @ 10:50 AM on 5/11/2015
For those of you who receive The New England Sports Network, Ring of Honor TV is slated to start airing as of tonight on the national feed for NESN on late Mondays/early Tuesdays at 12 AM. The episode will be the one that aired this past weekend on ROH TV outlets.
ROH has not officially announced the clearance, so it may be a situation similar to ROH in Dallas, Texas where the show aired for some time before being listed by the company and "officially debuting."
I am told that the series may not be picked up by all NESN local affiliates, so check your local listings and/or set your DVR for the timeslot to see what airs.
Thanks to Andrew Sanford for his help.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on May 11, 2015 11:58:45 GMT -5
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