Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,599
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Post by Burst on Dec 2, 2014 6:11:52 GMT -5
I know this type of thread gets made pretty often, but it certainly seems like a hell of a lot of things have hit the fan lately, and unlike other things that "should've killed" the WWE in the past, these haven't been standalone incidents like Benoit or the various steroid busts but just a lot of more, well, cumulative wounds. In no particular order, over the past year we've seen - The relative mismanagement of the network, especially in regards to international viewers, and cost-cutting in other aspects of the WWE to cover for it
- An increasingly bland product not helped out by the cost-cutting removing things such as unique PPV sets and just little polished things that add up
- Booking that's been the definition of more of the same as well as showing a complete allergy to backup plans
- Pretty much everything that's come out about the culture of working through injuries or being pushed til you fall apart lest you lose your spot... Basically since Vince is a workaholic he expects everyone else to be one too
- The entire clusterf*** of Alberto Del Rio's departure
- Literally everything that CM Punk revealed in his interview about the toxic backstage culture and whatnot
I'm sure I've forgotten some things but seriously, even though NXT is firing on all cylinders, NXT may well be its own separate promotion because the mainline WWE is pretty much a clusterf*** right now, more off-screen than on-screen, but it's getting awfully blurry in that regards. I don't know how buyrates or attendance is versus what it's been, but they seriously can't be that deluded in Stamford to think they can just keep on keeping on like this without people finally getting fed up with it. And if the audience isn't getting fed up with it, I feel like it can't be that long before the talent's fed up with it. You can only get Zack Ryder'd so many times and lectured about grabbing that damn brass ring before you get sick of it.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,959
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 2, 2014 6:15:46 GMT -5
Meh, I dunno. I can vote with my cash, which for WWE I've spent lately on Macho, Warrior, Punk, Hogan, and outside of WWE Foley and Bret.
I hope they see the pattern just on my Shopzone purchases.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 2, 2014 6:30:43 GMT -5
Meh, I dunno. I can vote with my cash, which for WWE I've spent lately on Macho, Warrior, Punk, Hogan, and outside of WWE Foley and Bret. I hope they see the pattern just on my Shopzone purchases. "Paul, begin the thawing of Bob Backlund."
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 2, 2014 6:39:37 GMT -5
I don't think there'll be a reckoning, just a slow, steady decline like we saw over the reign of terror, but the WWE is so tonedeaf they'll blame it on changing TV markets rather than anything they're doing creatively.
The Network is a millstone around the company's neck, while it may be one of those rare things that's great for Vince's ego and for fans, they're never, ever going to get the figures needed to get them over the hump and back to where they were financially so we're going to see a reckoning for that. It won't be a complete shutdown, but a restructuring where they no longer provide the big four PPVs and they're shuffled back to the PPV system, making less money than they were before being network'd but that money more than compensates for the hit taken to network subscriber levels.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,725
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Post by nisidhe on Dec 2, 2014 7:37:48 GMT -5
I don't think there'll be a reckoning, just a slow, steady decline like we saw over the reign of terror, but the WWE is so tonedeaf they'll blame it on changing TV markets rather than anything they're doing creatively. The Network is a millstone around the company's neck, while it may be one of those rare things that's great for Vince's ego and for fans, they're never, ever going to get the figures needed to get them over the hump and back to where they were financially so we're going to see a reckoning for that. It won't be a complete shutdown, but a restructuring where they no longer provide the big four PPVs and they're shuffled back to the PPV system, making less money than they were before being network'd but that money more than compensates for the hit taken to network subscriber levels. The Network was/is a brilliant concept executed so poorly that one has to question whether it was deliberate on someone's part. If you're going to have an archived section, you'd better have everything digitized and ready to put up from day one. If you're going to take it global, you'd better have the same experience for everyone you're selling to. WWE in general has shot itself in the face with the "Best of WWE Network" fiasco in Canada; I suspect more people in Canada now attend indie shows overall compared to WWE Live if you went with year-end numbers. There are Canadian markets which haven't seen a WWE show in years. WWE may not even know this yet, let alone be willing to admit it; however, AAA and GFW/NJPW, if they follow a logical progression and start making more inroads into North America, should be a source both of worry and challenge for WWE. If all goes well for both, I'd suggest that we could have a level of competition sufficient to make the Monday Night Wars look like a pissy phone call.
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Post by MrElijah on Dec 2, 2014 11:57:12 GMT -5
Hell NJPW has It's own network out now. And they have outright said we're number 2, but we want the WWE's spot of number 1.
I mean it won't happen overnight, but Vinne mac needs to step up his game.
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Post by Hypnosis on Dec 2, 2014 13:09:10 GMT -5
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Post by Mid-Carder on Dec 2, 2014 13:20:25 GMT -5
Absolutely not. A few bad business decisions is nothing compared to the steroid scandal or the Benoit shit.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 13:21:32 GMT -5
I do think 2015 is going to be a very rough year for them. The Network I really see falling hard in its subscription numbers once people's current obligations run out and they can start just picking it up for PPVs they want to see, there most likely will be some bigger fallout coming out of the Punk thing and I could see more people coming forward to speak about similar issues, and if they go ahead with the Reigns super-push right now, it will fail.
In general it does feel like it's time to put Vince on an ice floe and start weeding out the people who have been there for forever - retire Kane and Big Show, move Orton and Cena into more supporting roles, stop with the part-timers, and all of that - but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I do think the years of jogging in place doing the same things over and over again to diminishing returns are about to majorly bite them on the ass, though.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,961
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 2, 2014 13:21:41 GMT -5
Depends in what you consider to be a "a day of reckoning." I can picture a potential bloodbath of firings in the future ranging from medical staff to social media administrators to technical staff. There is pretty obviously a lot of miscommunication happening and eventually it comes to a head.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Dec 2, 2014 13:32:10 GMT -5
I love NJPW and everything but it's alittle crazy to act like they're nipping at WWE's heels. I would say they're not even as popular as TNA right now in the USA. Let's slow that roll some.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 2, 2014 13:33:56 GMT -5
Absolutely not. A few bad business decisions is nothing compared to the steroid scandal or the Benoit shit. Yeah, if the WWE survived the Benoit fallout and Vince almost going to jail for years It can survive this.
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
May contain ADHD
Posts: 13,482
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Post by Malcolm on Dec 2, 2014 13:38:07 GMT -5
I love NJPW and everything but it's alittle crazy to act like they're nipping at WWE's heels. I would say they're not even as popular as TNA right now in the USA. Let's slow that roll some. But... but... LolTNA.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,162
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 2, 2014 13:47:46 GMT -5
Absolutely not. A few bad business decisions is nothing compared to the steroid scandal or the Benoit shit. Yeah, if the WWE survived the Benoit fallout and Vince almost going to jail for years It can survive this. That depends on how pissed off and vengeful Punk gets. If he decides he wants to sic an army of lawyers on WWE to shut them down, he'll probably shut them down.
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Post by hossfan on Dec 2, 2014 13:52:52 GMT -5
Yeah, if the WWE survived the Benoit fallout and Vince almost going to jail for years It can survive this. That depends on how pissed off and vengeful Punk gets. If he decides he wants to sic an army of lawyers on WWE to shut them down, he'll probably shut them down. There's a pattern to your Punk posts where you paint him as a criminal mastermind who holds pro wrestling's future in the palm of his hand. He's a disgruntled ex-employee, not Hannibal Lecter.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 13:55:41 GMT -5
That depends on how pissed off and vengeful Punk gets. If he decides he wants to sic an army of lawyers on WWE to shut them down, he'll probably shut them down. There's a pattern to your Punk posts where you paint him as a criminal mastermind who holds pro wrestling's future in the palm of his hand. He's a disgruntled ex-employee, not Hannibal Lecter. CM Punk as Hannibal Lecter gimmick = new boom period?
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,162
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 2, 2014 14:03:13 GMT -5
That depends on how pissed off and vengeful Punk gets. If he decides he wants to sic an army of lawyers on WWE to shut them down, he'll probably shut them down. There's a pattern to your Punk posts where you paint him as a criminal mastermind who holds pro wrestling's future in the palm of his hand. He's a disgruntled ex-employee, not Hannibal Lecter. Are you saying you wouldn't pay to watch him eat Zack Ryder on live TV?
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Dec 2, 2014 14:04:56 GMT -5
WWE is largely more entertaining and with more future potential than it's often had in the past 10 years. And the network is a good idea that has gotten off to a pretty solid start.
I agree there's a lot they need to seriously improve on, especially the health related stuff CM Punk mentioned. But I don't really think WWE is headed in a downward direction, and for me it sure is a better watch than it was in say 2009 to be honest.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 14:13:02 GMT -5
If things bad (unprofitable) enough, the stockholders will vote Vince of the BoD, but that's a worst case scenario. Or best, depending on your POV.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 14:13:39 GMT -5
WWE is largely more entertaining and with more future potential than it's often had in the past 10 years. And the network is a good idea that has gotten off to a pretty solid start. I agree there's a lot they need to seriously improve on, especially the health related stuff CM Punk mentioned. But I don't really think WWE is headed in a downward direction, and for me it sure is a better watch than it was in say 2009 to be honest. You remind me of myself when I returned from a long hiatus after not watching for a good 5 years. Now, 6 years later, my optimism is gone again. There's better matches and up-and-comers than 2009 right now, but they've lost so much star power in those years and really haven't made anyone enough to replace them. That's the biggest problem, and from the booking and that Vince/Austin podcast it seems the big problem is that Vince doesn't believe in anyone.
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