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Post by eDemento2099 on Dec 16, 2014 4:49:38 GMT -5
In the 1990s, the WWF and WCW saw their popularity explode in the late 90s when they began to experiment with new stories/angles that were unseen within their respective promotions. The WWF's biggest angle was arguably 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin turning from a pure heel into an anti-hero face who won over fans when he 'stuck it to the man' - Vince McMahon, his boss. WCW's biggest angle was undoubtedly the nWo invasion and takeover of WCW, and the paranoia and backstabbing that Team WCW demonstrated toward Sting when his teammates suspected him of being the third member of the nWo.
What was ECW's biggest story/angle? This doesn't necessarily have to be about commercial success; it can come down to the angle you thought was most clever/groundbreaking/well executed/whatever. Just give reasons for your selection.
Some important angles that come to mind:
- Raven showing up as someone looking to get revenge on Tommy Dreamer for bullying him throughout school. Raven proceeded to make Dreamer's life a living hell, to the point that he eventually intervened in a match that pitted Dreamer against the Dudley Boys, effectively making Raven & Dreamer tag team partners.
- Cactus Jack forcing Mikey Whipwreck to wrestle against his will, making Whipwreck into an underdog who overcame the odds by beating The Public Enemy (Who were then known as 'the most violent tag team in all of wrestling).
- The faces of ECW (Paul Heyman, Joel Gertner, Joey Styles) shooting on TNN in response to the way that TNN was screwing over ECW in real life (TNN didn't lift a finger to promote ECW when it was on its network, despite ECW being its top-rated show; TNN used ECW as a 'guinea pig/lab rat' to see how successful wrestling could be on its network despite TNN putting little no no effort into promoting it and striving to increase viewership).
- Cactus Jack turning heel, shooting on his fans and hardcore wrestling in response to all his bodily sacrifices and the lack of gratitude he saw from hardcore fans (A response to the 'Cane Dewey' sign and fans chanting 'You F'd up' at JT Smith right after he cracked his head open from a botch that was obviously not part of the show).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 4:54:19 GMT -5
I'd definitely say Raven vs Dreamer. It lasted for several years and incorporated so many different storylines and people.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 16, 2014 6:29:45 GMT -5
Nothing was as big as Raven/Dreamer, those other angles are just drops in the bucket when compared. In fact the Jack heel turn was a smaller part of the larger Raven/Dreamer angle anyway. That was a multi-year, multi-faceted, multi-wrestler angle.
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Post by Viking Hall on Dec 16, 2014 8:12:38 GMT -5
Agreed with the above, perhaps the only thing that came close was Raven vs Sandman. Having said that, I guess you could say the character of Raven as a whole was one of their biggest legacies. To take a journeyman wrestler-cum-manager who had been in the big leagues, was a recognisable face and turn him into something that pretty much reinvented the 'dark' wrestler character was quite literally revolutionary. We will see facets of the Raven character imitated in one way or another for generations, but perhaps never quite as well as ECW and Scott Levy did it the first time around.
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Post by Stu on Dec 16, 2014 10:07:21 GMT -5
I'll have to agree with Dreamer/Raven, although runner-ups could include Taz/Sabu or the emergence of Rob Van Dam. Or if I really want to be one of those guys, I could say ECW as a whole is the biggest story. Dark moments include the TNN relationship, Mass Transit and the company's overall financial situation.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 16, 2014 10:31:04 GMT -5
- The faces of ECW (Paul Heyman, Joel Gertner, Joey Styles) shooting on TNN in response to the way that TNN was screwing over ECW in real life (TNN didn't lift a finger to promote ECW when it was on its network, despite ECW being its top-rated show; TNN used ECW as a 'guinea pig/lab rat' to see how successful wrestling could be on its network despite TNN putting little no no effort into promoting it and striving to increase viewership). Isn't at least part of this Heyman was a pain in the ass to TNN, which is what turned the network of to them. Regardless Raven/Dreamer is the answer.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 16, 2014 10:42:02 GMT -5
Dreamer/Raven easily. That feud was done with absolute perfection
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,469
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 16, 2014 10:43:19 GMT -5
Dreamer/Raven easily. That feud was done with absolute perfection
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 13:28:16 GMT -5
Mike Knox/Kelly Kelly easily.
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 16, 2014 13:30:54 GMT -5
Mike Knox/Kelly Kelly easily. Pales in comparison to the debut of the ECW Zombie for sure!
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Post by Instant Classic on Dec 16, 2014 13:32:07 GMT -5
It's Christian...
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 16, 2014 13:32:35 GMT -5
Dreamer/Raven easily. That feud was done with absolute perfection This. Hey, why not say Raven's entire ECW existence, Mk. 1? Not only Dreamer, but with Sandman and to a lesser degree Terry Funk. And you got the BWO out of him as well. And all of the above intertwined together in one way or another. Heck Raven's exit led into the "feud" with Lawler and the WWF!
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 16, 2014 13:33:00 GMT -5
This show has just gotten instantly classic!
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Post by MC Blowfish on Dec 16, 2014 13:39:07 GMT -5
Raven/Dreamer hands down. That feud was even explored in TNA and a little bit in WWE.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 16, 2014 14:58:52 GMT -5
Actually when Shane Douglas rejected the NWA title and ECW broke from the NWA was pretty big. I credit it as one of those precursors to the Attitude Era, alongside Montreal and Hogan turning heel.
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Post by eDemento2099 on Dec 16, 2014 15:37:19 GMT -5
- The faces of ECW (Paul Heyman, Joel Gertner, Joey Styles) shooting on TNN in response to the way that TNN was screwing over ECW in real life (TNN didn't lift a finger to promote ECW when it was on its network, despite ECW being its top-rated show; TNN used ECW as a 'guinea pig/lab rat' to see how successful wrestling could be on its network despite TNN putting little no no effort into promoting it and striving to increase viewership). Isn't at least part of this Heyman was a pain in the ass to TNN, which is what turned the network of to them. That may be part of it, but as I said, the network made virtually no effort to promote ECW or augment the promotion's viewership. For instance, the only time TNN viewers ever saw commercials advertising the fact that ECW was on TNN was DURING the ECW program (a time when the advertisements were absolutely useless). ECW was TNN's top-rated show, yet ECW received so little support from the network that you'd think it was their worst rated show. ECW made TNN money, but TNN did nothing to help ECW make money. Smart businesses will at least attempt to retain entities (workers, TV programs, etc.) with a proven record of making them money - look at Vince McMahon mending business relationships with the likes of Brock Lesnar, Hall, Nash, Warrior, Bret Hart, etc. As I said, TNN treated ECW as something of a test tube experiment and nothing more, which is what Paul Heyman was reacting to in protest and disgust. Had ECW been on a network that took them seriously, the company might still be in business.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 16:39:46 GMT -5
Isn't at least part of this Heyman was a pain in the ass to TNN, which is what turned the network of to them. That may be part of it, but as I said, the network made virtually no effort to promote ECW or augment the promotion's viewership. For instance, the only time TNN viewers ever saw commercials advertising the fact that ECW was on TNN was DURING the ECW program (a time when the advertisements were absolutely useless). ECW was TNN's top-rated show, yet ECW received so little support from the network that you'd think it was their worst rated show. ECW made TNN money, but TNN did nothing to help ECW make money. Smart businesses will at least attempt to retain entities (workers, TV programs, etc.) with a proven record of making them money - look at Vince McMahon mending business relationships with the likes of Brock Lesnar, Hall, Nash, Warrior, Bret Hart, etc. As I said, TNN treated ECW as something of a test tube experiment and nothing more, which is what Paul Heyman was reacting to in protest and disgust. Had ECW been on a network that took them seriously, the company might still be in business. They did the same thing to TNA, which I believe has been their top rated show forever, because TNN/SPIKE is apparently run by the stupidest people on earth.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 16, 2014 16:42:51 GMT -5
TNA was not there top rated show for a long ass time.
They did also advertise TNA at least a bit there was a big ass billboard for Impact in the middle of Times Square NYC for months when they signed their new deal.
I also remember seeing a bunch of ads for TNA on Spike.
But that's getting off topic.
If I'm remembering correctly Heyman pissed TNN off like the first day because they sent a professional crew and gear to tape but Paul refused to use them.
Edit: not that its a good reason to bury the top rated program or anything. But if the stories are true the bad blood started due to Heyman's actions not TNN.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 16, 2014 16:46:16 GMT -5
Actually when Shane Douglas rejected the NWA title and ECW broke from the NWA was pretty big. I credit it as one of those precursors to the Attitude Era, alongside Montreal and Hogan turning heel. That's not a bad shout, was this one of the very first worked shoots?
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Dec 16, 2014 17:01:54 GMT -5
The first thing I think of now about Raven/Dreamer is the bit on the Rise and Fall of ECW where Dreamer is talking about the night Beulah reveals he was the father of her her unborn child. Particularly the bit when he says "the place lit up" and it cuts to the video of it, yet the crowd hardly makes a sound.
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