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Post by Psy on Dec 16, 2014 16:42:38 GMT -5
The premise of the game, to me, is offensive. But you know what? That's okay. You shouldn't stop making something because it might offend people. People don't have a right to NEVER be offended.
Other games are as violent in different settings. Call of Duty games take place in war settings (aside from the MW2 airport mission, which was very important for the story of that game and the next) and violence is more acceptable in those settings. Violent actions are less acceptable, socially, in public settings. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen - look at Postal, a game that even had special 'executions'. I wasn't offended by that, and even if I was, you shouldn't give a shit.
Valve is not a lawmaker. They can not prevent the game from being made, and they're not trying to do so. They're simply not publishing it. The game makers can and will go elsewhere to get it published.
And on the subject of offensiveness I will say the same thing that I told a friend recently when she was unreasonably outraged over a difference of opinion (the 'you's in here were directed at her and here are not directed at anyone): "Earth is not a TV show and you are not the main character. Other people, with their own lives, exist alongside you. You are no more important than they are. Your opinions are no more accurate nor important than theirs are. Your shouting is not making you or your opinions more "correct" or impressive, just more annoying. If you can not discuss things in a proper, mature fashion then it reflects poorly upon you and your opinions and not upon them or their opinions. Get over yourself."
So, TL;DR: Whether the game is offensive or not does not matter. Valve is a private company and can refuse to publish it if they want, the developers can go elsewhere and publish it just fine. My friend is a tool.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 16, 2014 16:50:55 GMT -5
I'm against banning things, if it's not infringing on someone's rights to an extent. The right to swing around someone's fists stops before someone's face, like, I think that can be a bit bogus because of issues of persistent harassment. Basically, intruding on someone else's rights. So banning a game, I'm not a fan of.
Calling it on its bullshit though, is also perfectly acceptable, and I feel that sometimes can get lost on some people. Critiquing something and pushing for change doesn't mean ban everything outright.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 16:57:01 GMT -5
Valve is not a lawmaker. They can not prevent the game from being made, and they're not trying to do so. They're simply not publishing it. The game makers can and will go elsewhere to get it published. Pretty much the extent of it for me. If Penguin passes on your manuscript, you just take it some where else. To the game creators' credit, they're taking it much more maturely than a lot of people online are.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Dec 16, 2014 17:22:37 GMT -5
I think for some people they just want to know WHY Valve took it down. The only thing any high ranking Valve employee has said is a vague statement that makes you wonder why they are more than happy to carry other games with the level of graphic violence as this game.
I think the moment Valve says exactly why they removed it(rather than this vague bullshit), many people will cease to care.
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Fauxnaki
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Post by Fauxnaki on Dec 16, 2014 18:43:07 GMT -5
well postal is on steam so i dont see why hatred shouldnt be even though i think hatred is a stupid, stupid game
im still going buy it anyway
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 18:49:41 GMT -5
I'm against censorship, but I'm also for common sense decency. If you feel a game might hurt the perception of your overall value, you have every right to refuse publishing it.
Granted, we live in a society that is drawn into things that are "too hot" or "too raw", and I understand that. My problem is that there are things we should not desensitize or make light of, especially since there is the likelihood that a majority of those who will play this game aren't bored adults thinking its a larf, but teenagers. I don't believe in the notion that violent media is directly responsible for violent behavior; if anything, that is a convenient excuse because when you play GTA, you know by default you are doing bad. But, I would worry about the idea of glorifying mass shootings. That is my problem.
I'm also tolerant to the other side who do view this as an example of artistic integrity as opposed to mindless glorification, provided they, too, are tolerant of my stance.
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Dec 16, 2014 19:12:03 GMT -5
Hatred? Valve? Nazi?
Wait a second.... "Hatred" has six letters. "Valve" has five letters. "Nazi" has four letters. So what has something to do with Valve and has three letters? Or maybe, they're saying Valve are about to announce something with "three" in the title? That's it...Half Life 3, Team Fortress 3 and Portal 3 have all been announced!
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Dec 16, 2014 19:44:57 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV3PhvCf_JgFor people complaining about censorship, that's the trailer. No satire, it's not over the top, it's just a power fantasy for a sick deranged person. You go around executing civilians, how can they want that on steam especially in the gamersgate era? Here's some stuff about it.Also for people whining that Postal 2 and Hotline Miami aren't being removed, neither were made by a literal neo-nazi. Also they were both over the top enough that it was more crass and full on then being literally a power-fantasy.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 16, 2014 19:57:56 GMT -5
Valve as a company is under no obligation to publish every game that comes across their desk, nor do they really need any reason to justify why they refuse to. They're allowed to draw the line wherever they wish.
Is it censorship? Sure, inthe most broad sense. But any business that doesn't choose to give a platform to a content creator in any media because they don't like the product is technically committing censorship, whether that be every tv channel that refused to pick up Toddler's & Tiara's to a movie theater not showing x-rated movies to someone just deciding better than to scream obscenities at children playing on a playground. Censorship is a pretty broad thing, and businesses can have a line that they don't want to cross.
As far as the artistic merit argument goes, I'm actually surprised that people buy into the creator's claims of it so eagerly. In an industry where I can pick up a game that allows me to hire hookers than mow them down for money, where I can have a wizard forcefully make a woman impale herself through the mouth, or where I can miss a button press and see a woman impaled through the neck, the fact that anyone really wants counterculture cred for making a violent game is pretty stupid. It seems more like something they came up with only after they began to get negative attention for it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 21:59:07 GMT -5
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Dec 16, 2014 22:19:04 GMT -5
Honestly if I were to condemn it this game It would be due to the fact that it looks incredibly shitty and its pretty much banking on controversy to get people to play it.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 16, 2014 22:38:23 GMT -5
perfectly fine. developer can make the game if they want but that doesn't mean a vendor would have to sell it.
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Burst
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Post by Burst on Dec 16, 2014 22:40:55 GMT -5
The devs have a right to make this game but that means that the publishers have the right to refuse to publish it. Nothing is obligating Steam to publish every game that comes at them, they're not the Library of Congress.
As has been mentioned, despite the fact that are other games just as violent, it's the intent that's the most annoying in two different ways. There literally looks to be nothing to the game other than killing defenseless civilians. That'd be like a Mortal Kombat where your opponent is always dazed and the fatality inputs are single button presses. That's like that one arcade game from waaaaaay back when where you were literally shooting strapped down prisoners who couldn't move and you didn't clear the stage until you'd completely mutilated them and that was the entire game.
That and the devs, regardless of the connections to hate groups, sound like the biggest tools we all knew in high school that are trying way too damn hard to come off as edgy and that sort of "Oh I'm up in your face, am I offending you? Oooh, just look at how I'm pressing your buttons, I'm SO controversial!" immature as hell mentality. I'm willing to bet they were planning on Steam and GoG and other publishers rejecting them just so they could spin the controversy. There's nothing stopping them from publishing on their own site after all. The stink over it will market itself and there will be plenty of antisocial, superiority-complex, angsty teenagers gobbling this right up.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 16, 2014 22:46:27 GMT -5
Hatred? Valve? Nazi? Wait a second.... "Hatred" has six letters. "Valve" has five letters. "Nazi" has four letters. So what has something to do with Valve and has three letters? Or maybe, they're saying Valve are about to announce something with "three" in the title? That's it...Half Life 3, Team Fortress 3 and Portal 3 have all been announced! You fool! it's 3 words and one of them has 4 letters clearly its Left 4 dead 3!
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Post by The Spelunker! on Dec 16, 2014 23:50:36 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV3PhvCf_JgFor people complaining about censorship, that's the trailer. No satire, it's not over the top, it's just a power fantasy for a sick deranged person. You go around executing civilians, how can they want that on steam especially in the gamersgate era? Here's some stuff about it.Also for people whining that Postal 2 and Hotline Miami aren't being removed, neither were made by a literal neo-nazi. Also they were both over the top enough that it was more crass and full on then being literally a power-fantasy. Apparently, they certainly aren't neo-nazis. The people calling them that seem to not understand Polish history at all apparently.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Dec 17, 2014 1:50:41 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV3PhvCf_JgFor people complaining about censorship, that's the trailer. No satire, it's not over the top, it's just a power fantasy for a sick deranged person. You go around executing civilians, how can they want that on steam especially in the gamersgate era? Here's some stuff about it.Also for people whining that Postal 2 and Hotline Miami aren't being removed, neither were made by a literal neo-nazi. Also they were both over the top enough that it was more crass and full on then being literally a power-fantasy. Apparently, they certainly aren't neo-nazis. The people calling them that seem to not understand Polish history at all apparently. Yeah apparently this Neo-Nazi bullshit came from one of the devs liking a particular Polish Facebook page or post and another wearing a very specific shirt. The CEO of the studio said this was f***ing ridiculous.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Dec 17, 2014 2:11:12 GMT -5
Apparently, they certainly aren't neo-nazis. The people calling them that seem to not understand Polish history at all apparently. Yeah apparently this Neo-Nazi bullshit came from one of the devs liking a particular Polish Facebook page or post and another wearing a very specific shirt. The CEO of the studio said this was f***ing ridiculous. Don't let the truth interupt a good story.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 17, 2014 2:15:10 GMT -5
How come no one is ever Neon Nazis? They'd still be despicable, but they'd at least be festive colors.
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Post by Orange on Dec 17, 2014 2:35:28 GMT -5
Eh. I just watched the trailer and honestly the game just seems like a whole lot of nothing.It seems like the developers just wanted controversy and by God they got it, but when you strip away the controversy it just seems like there's no substance to the game. At least with other games like GTA, sure, you can kill people, but there's a deeper story there; I must be missing the appeal of the pointless killing being the story.
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Post by The Spelunker! on Dec 17, 2014 3:07:24 GMT -5
Eh. I just watched the trailer and honestly the game just seems like a whole lot of nothing.It seems like the developers just wanted controversy and by God they got it, but when you strip away the controversy it just seems like there's no substance to the game. At least with other games like GTA, sure, you can kill people, but there's a deeper story there; I must be missing the appeal of the pointless killing being the story. It's definitely not for everyone, that's for sure. But if there's anything I've learned from watching other people play Skyrim or Fallout, random mass murder sprees are cathartic for some people.
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