Guys that had Solid pushes that no one seems to remember

[thegame415]

Been collecting old DVDs from 2001, and watching raw and smackdown from that time. Rhyno had a much bigger push than I remember.

KOTR: made the semi finals against Edge
Invasion: part of team alliance
Summerslam: faced Jericho in an upper/mid card match
Won the us title and defended it against Tajiri at Unforgiven.

He also had a few raw and smackdown main events.

What other solid pushes seem to get overlooked?

[Deleted]

Plus he Gore'd The Rock all the way to Hollywood.

[Viking Hall]

Marc Mero had a decent push when he arrived in the WWF in '96. Feuded with Hunter Hearst Helmsley, was an Intercontinental Title holder within three months of arriving (when that still meant something), held wins over a host of big names including Steve Austin, British Bulldog and Owen Hart and seemed to be being fast tracked into the big time. If he hadn't had got injured for most of '97 I wouldn't mind hazarding a guess that he would be seen as a bigger deal than he is nowadays.

[Deleted]

A slew of WCW guys who are generally remembered by history as having been "held down" there.

Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Steven Regal, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, Chris Benoit, etc. all rose to upper midcard, if not main event before their departures.

[ICBM]

Dec 17, 2014 12:56:35 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

A slew of WCW guys who are generally remembered by history as having been "held down" there.

Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Steven Regal, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, Chris Benoit, etc. all rose to upper midcard, if not main event before their departures.

Mary me. I seriously came in here to mention exactly this. Benoit was the Martha flipping world champion
Guerrero was a multi time US and TV champion
Malenko was THE cruiser weight draw and was pushed as such
Jericho was on the way to a US title run and was given loads of TV time to sell himself. If he didn't get TV than someone please explain how Vince McMahon came to know of him and was willing to give him a downside contract for close to a million dollars. I'll wait no rush
Saturn was Saturn and if. McMahon couldn't make him a star, he was never going to be one. But he was featured a good bit his first two years and was a mainstay his entire run in the company
Regal...where to start. Umm... WWF didn't want him. They tried him, gimmick and all and it fizzled. WCW made him look like a badass and didn't even make him lose any weight, a point that likely had a bit to do with him not getting a super star push in wcw. Put regal 1998 right next to Bagwell and tell just stand there. The difference is a mile wide but the truth on work rate is it doesn't make you a super star.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Let's be fair, Benoit's world title win was the carrot that they thought would make him stay.

And also, it's not just workrate that Regal had over Bagwell. Regal is better at literally everything else that goes into being a wrestler aside from physique.

[Joe Neglia]

Dec 17, 2014 23:07:19 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Let's be fair, Benoit's world title win was the carrot that they thought would make him stay.

Sure, but they still gave him the belt to try to keep him. Whatever the reason, it'd still be a push, right? Plus it's not like they gave him a TV title run to placate him, they thought he was worth keeping enough to give him their top position.

Anyway, I'd say Bad News Brown. Dude was kept solid almost through his run in the WWF. Paired up with Savage, Hogan and Piper, rarely ever did jobs on TV. Won the big WM4 battle royale. About the only time he had a dip was during the Brooklyn Brawler team/feud. While the IWC has latched on to him as the "original Stone Cold" generally his WWF tenure just seems to fall through the cracks.

[TGM]

Jindrak and Reigns.

Seems WWE were trying to recreate the magic of Evolution.

I liked them *shrugs*

[Viking Hall]

Dec 18, 2014 2:17:21 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

Dec 17, 2014 23:07:19 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Let's be fair, Benoit's world title win was the carrot that they thought would make him stay.

Sure, but they still gave him the belt to try to keep him. Whatever the reason, it'd still be a push, right? Plus it's not like they gave him a TV title run to placate him, they thought he was worth keeping enough to give him their top position.

Anyway, I'd say Bad News Brown. Dude was kept solid almost through his run in the WWF. Paired up with Savage, Hogan and Piper, rarely ever did jobs on TV. Won the big WM4 battle royale. About the only time he had a dip was during the Brooklyn Brawler team/feud. While the IWC has latched on to him as the "original Stone Cold" generally his WWF tenure just seems to fall through the cracks.

I think the thing people forget about Bad News is that by the time he arrived in the WWF he was by quite a way the oldest man on the full time roster. Although he still looked the part he was already knocking on the door of 50 and so considering his age he was lucky to have a run at all, let alone one as good as he did.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Most of the 'misused' guys in the WCW midcard got pushes that people in the present day WWE would sell their souls for, guys like Raven, Scotty Riggs, Saturn, Benoit and so on all had storylines and some direction, they all had their own angles and were usually kept away from the top guys for the most part. I know some see that as a glass ceiling, but it also usually prevented guys like Hogan, Hall and Nash seeing them as a threat and working to undermine them for their own benefit, or being fed to them in meaningless TV matches in the middle of their angles as they would be in the present day WWE. It doesn't matter where they were on the card, you still felt that guys like Kidman, Mysterio, Malenko and the belt they were fighting for actually mattered... Well, before it all fell apart due to the egos at the top of the card and the company.

[Viking Hall]

Dec 18, 2014 6:32:33 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

Most of the 'misused' guys in the WCW midcard got pushes that people in the present day WWE would sell their souls for, guys like Raven, Scotty Riggs, Saturn, Benoit, Saturn all had storylines and some direction, they all had their own angles and were usually kept away from the top guys for the most part. I know some see that as a glass ceiling, but it also usually prevented guys like Hogan, Hall and Nash seeing them as a threat and working to undermine them for their own benefit, or being fed to them in meaningless TV matches in the middle of their angles as they would be in the present day WWE. It doesn't matter where they were on the card, you still felt that guys like Kidman, Mysterio, Malenko and the belt they were fighting for actually mattered... Well, before it all fell apart due to the egos at the top of the card and the company.

It was similar in the WWF when I first started watching as a kid, while you had your top guys fighting over the World Title you had the undercurrent of young, talented workers fighting over the Intercontinental and European Titles and they were kept away from the World Title scene until they were ready to progress to the big stage. This worked brilliantly as it kept the younger wrestlers looking strong and when the time came for them to move up the card they were seen as a threat rather than someone who had been easily beaten countless times before on TV. This was around the back end of 1997 going into 1998 so as well as the headliners such as The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, Kane and Mankind you had the talented crop of The Rock, HHH, X-Pac, Owen Hart, D'Lo Brown etc who were all kept really strong ready for the move up the card, which obviously in the case of The Rock and HHH worked perfectly.

The fact this doesn't happen today is probably one of the biggest mistakes the WWE makes right now, back then virtually everyone seemed to have a purpose or a role to play even if they weren't topping the bill week in week out. Okay, so a few got lost in the shuffle, but that's just natural selection, it happens in every walk of life, but at least people had more of a chance to prove themselves. This can perhaps be attributed to the fact that there's nowhere else for big name wrestlers to go anymore so they're trapped in a position where they either drop down the card and potentially lose their spot or just stick around at the top and repeat the same old feuds and storylines. This in turn means less spots at the top and less of a need to develop an undercard because they know they're potentially 'stuck' with the same main event scene for the next 10-15 years.

I mean, on paper if this was a sport, there would be no shame in dropping down a few levels, it happens all of the time, someone isn't ready to retire but hasn't got the legs for the highest level anymore, so they do a good job a league or two below, it's no big deal and no one is bothered. But how many bona fide wrestling superstars have done that? None that I can think of. Wrestlers who have been at the top of the game for any period of time stay at the top and to be honest this just completely f***s over any sort of natural evolution or progression the business should have... but then it's a culture that's so deeply ingrained that perhaps it's something that will never change either. I think what I'm saying is that the day Vince bought WCW was the day mainstream wrestling killed itself basically and it's something we're just going to have to accept. Until some other Billionaire wrestling fan fancies a crack at the business I honestly can't see how the business can change.

[Deleted]

Dec 17, 2014 22:38:13 GMT -5 ICBM said:

Dec 17, 2014 12:56:35 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

A slew of WCW guys who are generally remembered by history as having been "held down" there.

Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Steven Regal, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, Chris Benoit, etc. all rose to upper midcard, if not main event before their departures.

Mary me. I seriously came in here to mention exactly this. Benoit was the Martha flipping world champion
Guerrero was a multi time US and TV champion
Malenko was THE cruiser weight draw and was pushed as such
Jericho was on the way to a US title run and was given loads of TV time to sell himself. If he didn't get TV than someone please explain how Vince McMahon came to know of him and was willing to give him a downside contract for close to a million dollars. I'll wait no rush
Saturn was Saturn and if. McMahon couldn't make him a star, he was never going to be one. But he was featured a good bit his first two years and was a mainstay his entire run in the company
Regal...where to start. Umm... WWF didn't want him. They tried him, gimmick and all and it fizzled. WCW made him look like a badass and didn't even make him lose any weight, a point that likely had a bit to do with him not getting a super star push in wcw. Put regal 1998 right next to Bagwell and tell just stand there. The difference is a mile wide but the truth on work rate is it doesn't make you a super star.

I agree with all your points, but I would suggest that Saturn WAS a star in WCW.  He got over being Saturn, had fantastic matches, and was pushed as a credible threat to anyone on the roster.  Vince treated Saturn like he treated DDP, Booker T and a lot of other of WCW's stars... he treated them like bush league stars who were lucky to be in the WWE midcard.  IMO that does not detract one bit from what they accomplished in WCW.

[Gelatinous Parasite]

Dec 17, 2014 12:56:35 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

A slew of WCW guys who are generally remembered by history as having been "held down" there.

Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Steven Regal, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, Chris Benoit, etc. all rose to upper midcard, if not main event before their departures.

I think revisionist history definitely remembers their WCW runs as less successful than they were. However, with the old guard still around there was still a glass ceiling. I doubt that any of them would've been able to become bona fide main-eventers, no matter how talented and over they were. Benoit may be the exception but it's hard to say how his title reign would've panned out and whether he'd have been pushed back down in the pecking order. Having said that, that's pretty much what happened after he became champ in WWE.

On that subject, I remember Benoit was stripped of the WCW title the night after Souled Out. They obviously had to get the belt off him as he'd quit the company but in kayfabe, Sid had his foot under the rope when he tapped to the Crossface. Was this a happy accident for WCW or was that planned as part of the Sid/Benoit program?

[Deleted]

Dec 18, 2014 10:49:09 GMT -5 Gelatinous Parasite said:

Dec 17, 2014 12:56:35 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

A slew of WCW guys who are generally remembered by history as having been "held down" there.

Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Steven Regal, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, Chris Benoit, etc. all rose to upper midcard, if not main event before their departures.

I think revisionist history definitely remembers their WCW runs as less successful than they were. However, with the old guard still around there was still a glass ceiling. I doubt that any of them would've been able to become bona fide main-eventers, no matter how talented and over they were. Benoit may be the exception but it's hard to say how his title reign would've panned out and whether he'd have been pushed back down in the pecking order. Having said that, that's pretty much what happened after he became champ in WWE.

On that subject, I remember Benoit was stripped of the WCW title the night after Souled Out. They obviously had to get the belt off him as he'd quit the company but in kayfabe, Sid had his foot under the rope when he tapped to the Crossface. Was this a happy accident for WCW or was that planned as part of the Sid/Benoit program?

Completely disagree with the whole glass ceiling concept.  Those guys were well on their way to being the next generation stars of the company.  Yes, Hogan had his day on the top, but he was closing in on the end of his career as a full time active wrestler, as was Hall and Nash.  Luger and Flair were already in the midcard at the end of the company's run.  Savage was done.  Bret was done.  Sid was done.  The only old heads who might have still been a big factor in the years to come was Sting, and he hadn't been the top guy for years. 

The problem is that Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit, etc were unsatisfied with the management of the company, begrudged the pecking order, begrudged Bischoff, etc.  I have no problem with that, but it's just ridiculous to suggest that none of these guys would become main eventers.   They were being groomed for that stage the whole time, but they didn't want to wait for Hogan to get out of the way.  They felt they could do better with Vince, and again that's fine and maybe they did do better with Vince.  But again, to conclude that they would have never been main eventers is a huge stretch, because WCW clearly appreciated their talents enough to showcase them and let them do their thing for years while still featuring Hogan as their marquee star. 

Look at all the guys who were with Vince for years while Hogan reigned supreme.  From that pack you had Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels who went on to become two of the biggest stars in the business, and they did it despite Vince pushing Lex Luger and Diesel as his next big marquee names.  It was just a matter of time for WCW's glass ceiling boys.

[karl100589]

Bubba Ray Dudley's upper-midcarder push circa 2002.

[Viking Hall]

Dec 18, 2014 11:13:13 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

Dec 18, 2014 10:49:09 GMT -5 Gelatinous Parasite said:

I think revisionist history definitely remembers their WCW runs as less successful than they were. However, with the old guard still around there was still a glass ceiling. I doubt that any of them would've been able to become bona fide main-eventers, no matter how talented and over they were. Benoit may be the exception but it's hard to say how his title reign would've panned out and whether he'd have been pushed back down in the pecking order. Having said that, that's pretty much what happened after he became champ in WWE.

On that subject, I remember Benoit was stripped of the WCW title the night after Souled Out. They obviously had to get the belt off him as he'd quit the company but in kayfabe, Sid had his foot under the rope when he tapped to the Crossface. Was this a happy accident for WCW or was that planned as part of the Sid/Benoit program?

Completely disagree with the whole glass ceiling concept.  Those guys were well on their way to being the next generation stars of the company.  Yes, Hogan had his day on the top, but he was closing in on the end of his career as a full time active wrestler, as was Hall and Nash.  Luger and Flair were already in the midcard at the end of the company's run.  Savage was done.  Bret was done.  Sid was done.  The only old heads who might have still been a big factor in the years to come was Sting, and he hadn't been the top guy for years. 

The problem is that Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit, etc were unsatisfied with the management of the company, begrudged the pecking order, begrudged Bischoff, etc.  I have no problem with that, but it's just ridiculous to suggest that none of these guys would become main eventers.   They were being groomed for that stage the whole time, but they didn't want to wait for Hogan to get out of the way.  They felt they could do better with Vince, and again that's fine and maybe they did do better with Vince.  But again, to conclude that they would have never been main eventers is a huge stretch, because WCW clearly appreciated their talents enough to showcase them and let them do their thing for years while still featuring Hogan as their marquee star. 

Look at all the guys who were with Vince for years while Hogan reigned supreme.  From that pack you had Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels who went on to become two of the biggest stars in the business, and they did it despite Vince pushing Lex Luger and Diesel as his next big marquee names.  It was just a matter of time for WCW's glass ceiling boys.

You only have to look at the final PPV cards to realise that the wrestlers who left during that period could have been pretty much running the show by that point. I mean look at people who were getting a lot of air time, Ernest Miller, Dustin Rhodes, Kanyon even Jeff Jarrett, I think pretty much any of the defectors could have taken their spots with relative ease. Does make you wonder how things would have worked out if they had bided their time.

[James Fabiano]

Dec 18, 2014 9:17:09 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

Dec 17, 2014 22:38:13 GMT -5 ICBM said:

Mary me. I seriously came in here to mention exactly this. Benoit was the Martha flipping world champion
Guerrero was a multi time US and TV champion
Malenko was THE cruiser weight draw and was pushed as such
Jericho was on the way to a US title run and was given loads of TV time to sell himself. If he didn't get TV than someone please explain how Vince McMahon came to know of him and was willing to give him a downside contract for close to a million dollars. I'll wait no rush
Saturn was Saturn and if. McMahon couldn't make him a star, he was never going to be one. But he was featured a good bit his first two years and was a mainstay his entire run in the company
Regal...where to start. Umm... WWF didn't want him. They tried him, gimmick and all and it fizzled. WCW made him look like a badass and didn't even make him lose any weight, a point that likely had a bit to do with him not getting a super star push in wcw. Put regal 1998 right next to Bagwell and tell just stand there. The difference is a mile wide but the truth on work rate is it doesn't make you a super star.

I agree with all your points, but I would suggest that Saturn WAS a star in WCW.  He got over being Saturn, had fantastic matches, and was pushed as a credible threat to anyone on the roster.  Vince treated Saturn like he treated DDP, Booker T and a lot of other of WCW's stars... he treated them like bush league stars who were lucky to be in the WWE midcard.  IMO that does not detract one bit from what they accomplished in WCW.

Yes, I think by now that no one from any other companies would or will ever get a fair shake in the WWF/E. The prejudice against "outsiders" is just too strong, coming from Vince. TBF, on the other side of the spectrum you got the undying love for outsiders that TNA has.

Of course, Saturn was used best in ECW with the Eliminators. Who knows how he'd be used if he ever became a singles there, though. Which could have happened, as I know he didn't want to be with Kronus anymore.

I think how these people were "used" in WCW was colored by the mood at the time of the IWC; i.e. "our favorites should always be in the main events, anything less is unacceptable!" And as such they'd dwell on anything that proved them right, like the "vanilla midgets" story, or the Bischoff pep talk about how only Hogan and Savage were draws.

Actually, that mood still exists today. ("Bryan must always be a main eventer!!!")

[James Fabiano]

Dec 18, 2014 12:25:40 GMT -5 Viking Hall said:

Dec 18, 2014 11:13:13 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

Completely disagree with the whole glass ceiling concept.  Those guys were well on their way to being the next generation stars of the company.  Yes, Hogan had his day on the top, but he was closing in on the end of his career as a full time active wrestler, as was Hall and Nash.  Luger and Flair were already in the midcard at the end of the company's run.  Savage was done.  Bret was done.  Sid was done.  The only old heads who might have still been a big factor in the years to come was Sting, and he hadn't been the top guy for years. 

The problem is that Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit, etc were unsatisfied with the management of the company, begrudged the pecking order, begrudged Bischoff, etc.  I have no problem with that, but it's just ridiculous to suggest that none of these guys would become main eventers.   They were being groomed for that stage the whole time, but they didn't want to wait for Hogan to get out of the way.  They felt they could do better with Vince, and again that's fine and maybe they did do better with Vince.  But again, to conclude that they would have never been main eventers is a huge stretch, because WCW clearly appreciated their talents enough to showcase them and let them do their thing for years while still featuring Hogan as their marquee star. 

Look at all the guys who were with Vince for years while Hogan reigned supreme.  From that pack you had Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels who went on to become two of the biggest stars in the business, and they did it despite Vince pushing Lex Luger and Diesel as his next big marquee names.  It was just a matter of time for WCW's glass ceiling boys.

You only have to look at the final PPV cards to realise that the wrestlers who left during that period could have been pretty much running the show by that point. I mean look at people who were getting a lot of air time, Ernest Miller, Dustin Rhodes, Kanyon even Jeff Jarrett, I think pretty much any of the defectors could have taken their spots with relative ease. Does make you wonder how things would have worked out if they had bided their time.

Call me a cynic, but all four of the people you named had connections with higher-ups, one way or another. So...??

[Viking Hall]

Dec 18, 2014 13:46:24 GMT -5 James Fabiano said:

Dec 18, 2014 12:25:40 GMT -5 Viking Hall said:

You only have to look at the final PPV cards to realise that the wrestlers who left during that period could have been pretty much running the show by that point. I mean look at people who were getting a lot of air time, Ernest Miller, Dustin Rhodes, Kanyon even Jeff Jarrett, I think pretty much any of the defectors could have taken their spots with relative ease. Does make you wonder how things would have worked out if they had bided their time.

Call me a cynic, but all four of the people you named had connections with higher-ups, one way or another. So...??

Good point haha. Yeah, maybe things wouldn't have been much different in hindsight. Although, who was Kanyon's hookup?

[James Fabiano]

Dec 18, 2014 13:54:07 GMT -5 Viking Hall said:

Dec 18, 2014 13:46:24 GMT -5 James Fabiano said:

Call me a cynic, but all four of the people you named had connections with higher-ups, one way or another. So...??

Good point haha. Yeah, maybe things wouldn't have been much different in hindsight. Although, who was Kanyon's hookup?

DDP?