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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 18, 2014 10:22:43 GMT -5
That is bad considering he's the champ and he like, doesn't show up or defend the title. I even forgot there was a champ. Doesn't bother me. When I was a kid, the champ rarely defended the title. It is not at all the same. Hogan defended the title a lot on house shows and was on every television show in some capacity, not defending the title but he was there cutting a promo on whomever he was feuding with, or in a jobber squash or in a hype video of what he did recently... etc. It wasn't like Hogan was a complete non-factor like Brock's been
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 18, 2014 10:28:19 GMT -5
He beat John Cena within and inch of his life...stopping only to give him an out after EVER move. The merciful and humane thing for Brock to do would've just been to give Cena his finisher and put him down. So Cena could kick out of it?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 18, 2014 10:42:17 GMT -5
Doesn't bother me. When I was a kid, the champ rarely defended the title. It is not at all the same. Hogan defended the title a lot on house shows and was on every television show in some capacity, not defending the title but he was there cutting a promo on whomever he was feuding with, or in a jobber squash or in a hype video of what he did recently... etc. It wasn't like Hogan was a complete non-factor like Brock's been How many times did Hogan defend or even appear on TV with the title in 1993?
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Post by joeiscool on Dec 18, 2014 10:55:24 GMT -5
I enjoy the theme on this board where people go omg what has the heel done to be a bad guy totally forgetting all the unprovoked attacks, cheating, and over all heelish things they did if they win a few matches clean...
But God forbid if Cena says something slightly jerkish and they blow their loads on all the ways Cena is the bad guy.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Dec 18, 2014 11:04:07 GMT -5
Is it time for YET ANOTHER one of these forced "HOW IS THE HEEL A HEEL? " thread where we conveniently ignore the heelish things the heel wrestlers do, like how Lesnar broke one of the most beloved wrestler of all time's undefeated streak, mocked him, compared himself to a God and has in general acted like a megalomaniac while his advocate crows endlessly about his accomplishments and weasels around, insulting the crowd and face wrestlers because he knows his freak bully of a friend will back him up? Or, maybe we'll do one with Rusev again, and act like he's the face because of that one time Henry and Big Show teamed up on him, the same man who endlessly berates the country he currently resides in as well as the people living in it, beat up a helpless old man, and continues to brutalize wrestlers even after the bell rings with his brutal submission hold. Is it really time? Because it shouldn't be. It should never be time for this thread ever again. Can we sticky this?
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Squirrel Master
Hank Scorpio
"Then the Squirrel Master came out of left field and told me I'm his bitch!"
Posts: 6,639
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Post by Squirrel Master on Dec 18, 2014 11:46:20 GMT -5
Ate a raw elk carcass in the locker room and didn't clean up his mess. Called Paul Heyman at 3am in the morning to tell him "Say something stupid, Paul". Sings Taylor Swift songs while dropping a deuce in the bathroom and doesn't flush. thanks, now I have a visual of Brock staring into the toilet before he exits, crooning "WE ARE NEVER, EVER, EVER GETTING BACK TOGETHER!"
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Dec 18, 2014 11:48:23 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 11:59:46 GMT -5
Is it time for YET ANOTHER one of these forced "HOW IS THE HEEL A HEEL? " thread where we conveniently ignore the heelish things the heel wrestlers do, like how Lesnar broke one of the most beloved wrestler of all time's undefeated streak, mocked him, compared himself to a God and has in general acted like a megalomaniac while his advocate crows endlessly about his accomplishments and weasels around, insulting the crowd and face wrestlers because he knows his freak bully of a friend will back him up? Or, maybe we'll do one with Rusev again, and act like he's the face because of that one time Henry and Big Show teamed up on him, the same man who endlessly berates the country he currently resides in as well as the people living in it, beat up a helpless old man, and continues to brutalize wrestlers even after the bell rings with his brutal submission hold. Is it really time? Because it shouldn't be. It should never be time for this thread ever again. What was heelish about ending the streak? Taker's the one who challenged him and Brock beat him clean.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 18, 2014 12:18:06 GMT -5
Is it time for YET ANOTHER one of these forced "HOW IS THE HEEL A HEEL? " thread where we conveniently ignore the heelish things the heel wrestlers do, like how Lesnar broke one of the most beloved wrestler of all time's undefeated streak, mocked him, compared himself to a God and has in general acted like a megalomaniac while his advocate crows endlessly about his accomplishments and weasels around, insulting the crowd and face wrestlers because he knows his freak bully of a friend will back him up? Or, maybe we'll do one with Rusev again, and act like he's the face because of that one time Henry and Big Show teamed up on him, the same man who endlessly berates the country he currently resides in as well as the people living in it, beat up a helpless old man, and continues to brutalize wrestlers even after the bell rings with his brutal submission hold. Is it really time? Because it shouldn't be. It should never be time for this thread ever again. What was heelish about ending the streak? Taker's the one who challenged him and Brock beat him clean. Ending the streak may not necessarily be heelish, but the whole reason Taker challenged him was because Lesnar was just going to walk away from Wrestlemania because Triple H wasn't going to give him a title shot. That's not babyface material there.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 12:20:02 GMT -5
What was heelish about ending the streak? Taker's the one who challenged him and Brock beat him clean. Ending the streak may not necessarily be heelish, but the whole reason Taker challenged him was because Lesnar was just going to walk away from Wrestlemania because Triple H wasn't going to give him a title shot. That's not babyface material there. I guess, but the top face did the exact same thing two weeks later and held the show hostage to get it instead of just going, "Screw you guys," to it. Not saying Lesnar's not a heel, he is (though I would argue he's still moral than Cena is or than Triple H was in their feud), but I don't see it in that feud. Particularly since Taker's the one who kept attacking him and Heyman throughout the build.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Dec 18, 2014 13:00:36 GMT -5
Why would anyone blame Brock? The WWE signed him to this contract and the WWE decided to put the title on him. He probably thinks they're even stupider than we do.
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Post by MrElijah on Dec 18, 2014 13:08:00 GMT -5
The better question is, why is Seth still carrying that messed up case?
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Dec 18, 2014 13:56:41 GMT -5
It is not at all the same. Hogan defended the title a lot on house shows and was on every television show in some capacity, not defending the title but he was there cutting a promo on whomever he was feuding with, or in a jobber squash or in a hype video of what he did recently... etc. It wasn't like Hogan was a complete non-factor like Brock's been How many times did Hogan defend or even appear on TV with the title in 1993? It was 1993. RAW was the only weekly show they had, along with other sporadic televisions shows and all of four or so PPV's. Even then, at the very least, Hogan was SEEN. No one's asking him to defend the title every single night, just for him not to be a flipping absentee champion. Even in the UFC, you have champions giving random interviews or on the announce table or they show vignettes of them training for their next fight. Lesnar's been all of a spectre since he's been champion. He's even managed to be less visible than Rock was - and Rock was only champion for three months, while Lesnar's going on SIX! How is there nothing wrong with this? Give him an interview, show him training, SOMETHING!
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 18, 2014 14:06:25 GMT -5
The merciful and humane thing for Brock to do would've just been to give Cena his finisher and put him down. So Cena could kick out of it? If he kicks out of the F5, then do it again. Instead Brock figured he would prolong Cena's suffering by suplexing him over and over. Cena isn't going to willingly take a dive even if he's obviously going to lose. Brock took advantage of that as an excuse to continue inflicting punishment when 2-3 F5s could've ended his suffering.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 18, 2014 14:46:55 GMT -5
I enjoy the theme on this board where people go omg what has the heel done to be a bad guy totally forgetting all the unprovoked attacks, cheating, and over all heelish things they did if they win a few matches clean... But God forbid if Cena says something slightly jerkish and they blow their loads on all the ways Cena is the bad guy. I know, it's almost like the people who are supposed to be good guys are held to a higher standard of morality. People question the heelishness of heels partly because they don't care about the things that are supposed to matter (like Lana insulting about the US) and they in fact often resist the social implications behind the message of this person being bad (Lana and Rusev's foreignness being connected to their badness; Lesnar being presented as a baby who walks away from wrestling at the drop of a hat). That's all totally valid. The other thing is, which is a little sillier but it improves at least my experience: Seeing heels as being less heelish is more INTERESTING, because it gives those heels more complex motivations.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Dec 18, 2014 15:41:27 GMT -5
I enjoy the theme on this board where people go omg what has the heel done to be a bad guy totally forgetting all the unprovoked attacks, cheating, and over all heelish things they did if they win a few matches clean... But God forbid if Cena says something slightly jerkish and they blow their loads on all the ways Cena is the bad guy. I know, it's almost like the people who are supposed to be good guys are held to a higher standard of morality.This, however, I agree with. Too many heels, even today, are heels for some of the most basic, archaic reasons: Rusev's "evil Soviet Russian" being a prime example. However, if we desire heels with a little nuance, why aren't we allowed flawed faces? Why are we so quick to call Cena a dick, por ejemplo, because he gets pissed off that someone tried to end his career and drops a million chairs on that guy in return (keep in mind, I say this as someone who likes Barrett a HELL of a lot more than I like Cena, and I have numerous complaints for how the Nexus storyline turned out). All that said, Lesnar's not a heel because he beat up Cena in a match for a title. He's not a heel for ending Da Streak - I doubt anyone would be booing CM Punk or Shawn Michaels for doing the same thing. He certainly isn't a heel because he chose not to renew his contract in 2004 - something I don't think too many wrestling fans really care about ten years later. He's a heel because he's a brutish scumbag who throws his power around, pals around with the world's biggest scumbag and because he took the WWE title and went home. You got a lot of heels who were universally accepted as such just for the very former alone, why should he be any different?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 18, 2014 23:31:31 GMT -5
Brock's a heel, but not in an evil, dastardly way at all since coming back. His whole heelishness has been that he's a 'mercenary' (which doesn't make that much sense, given it's PROFESSIONAL wrestling, they're supposed to be competing for the proverbial winner's share of the purse). But he's not your typical heel that talks shit/lies/etc. Everything he says he's gonna do, he does. He's really only a heel because he destroys faces.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 18, 2014 23:33:44 GMT -5
So Cena could kick out of it? If he kicks out of the F5, then do it again. Instead Brock figured he would prolong Cena's suffering by suplexing him over and over. Cena isn't going to willingly take a dive even if he's obviously going to lose. Brock took advantage of that as an excuse to continue inflicting punishment when 2-3 F5s could've ended his suffering. Cena brought every bit of that punishment on himself. Brock repeatedly told him to stay down. Yeah, he was amused by doing so, but Cena's own stupidity is the only thing prolonging the agony there. You can't blame Brock for that.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 18, 2014 23:40:04 GMT -5
If he kicks out of the F5, then do it again. Instead Brock figured he would prolong Cena's suffering by suplexing him over and over. Cena isn't going to willingly take a dive even if he's obviously going to lose. Brock took advantage of that as an excuse to continue inflicting punishment when 2-3 F5s could've ended his suffering. Cena brought every bit of that punishment on himself. Brock repeatedly told him to stay down. Yeah, he was amused by doing so, but Cena's own stupidity is the only thing prolonging the agony there. You can't blame Brock for that. I guess, but if he actually WANTED John to stay down, he'd probably have just slapped the Kimura on. He wanted to wreck John, and you'd be hard pressed to find any wrestler who in kayfabe would go "You got me, dude" and stay down. Even Zack Ryder would get up if he could. And if John did stay down, he'd probably pick him right back up and do it again, especially since I think Brock still has a grudge over Cena beating him in their first match back.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 19, 2014 1:24:28 GMT -5
Brock's a heel, but not in an evil, dastardly way at all since coming back. His whole heelishness has been that he's a 'mercenary' (which doesn't make that much sense, given it's PROFESSIONAL wrestling, they're supposed to be competing for the proverbial winner's share of the purse). But he's not your typical heel that talks shit/lies/etc. Everything he says he's gonna do, he does. He's really only a heel because he destroys faces. He was also going around breaking people's arms because he could for a while.
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