Razor Ramon stale in 1995?

[Deleted]

I've seen this constantly mentioned across various wrestling boards. In 1995, apparently Ramon was stale? His act was old and he needed a heel turn? He still got huge pops and the crowd seem to buy him as a credible threat for any title.

The argument I've read is that by turning Ramon heel he faces off against Bret, Undertaker, Diesel, face Shawn, just to name a few as fresh opponents. And a heel turn would at least cement him as a contender for the WWF title, if not get the WWF title.

Some say this would motivate him too, because apparently he seemed to nail it in from Summerslam 1995 to the end of his tenure in the WWF pretty much. I think him staying as a face and getting the WWF title would've been enough to motivate him.

So were you in the camp of the Ramon character getting stale in 1995 or was he doing just fine?

[Deleted]

I couldn't get enough Razor.

Scott Hall as a whole was too volatile and under-pushed to really get stale. It seemed like he was always getting in trouble, or having random little injuries. And he never got an obnoxious push, he was always pretty vulnerable and would lose to guys like Jeff Jarrett due to injury/interference.

[Deleted]

Maybe this answers the question without answering it, but I can't even remember Razor or anything that he did in 1995.

[Deleted]

Dec 23, 2014 23:42:16 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

Maybe this answers the question without answering it, but I can't even remember Razor or anything that he did in 1995.

He was feuding with Jarrett for the first few months (incl. Wrestlemania time) and then later in the year the 1-2-3 Kid turned heel so he dealt with that.

That's all I got.

[somsta]

Dec 24, 2014 5:38:07 GMT -5 @knapp said:

Dec 23, 2014 23:42:16 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

Maybe this answers the question without answering it, but I can't even remember Razor or anything that he did in 1995.

He was feuding with Jarrett for the first few months (incl. Wrestlemania time) and then later in the year the 1-2-3 Kid turned heel so he dealt with that.

That's all I got.

He also feuded with Dean Douglas and had a face vs face rematch with HBK in a classic ladder match at Summerslam.

[Johnny D]

The character could have grown bigger still if Scott hadn't bailed for WCW IMHO.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Razor would have been fine feuding with anyone. Character was The Bad Guy after all. No turn needed.

[Deleted]

Dec 24, 2014 11:10:37 GMT -5 Johnny D said:

The character could have grown bigger still if Scott hadn't bailed for WCW IMHO.

Maybe, but by the sounds of it, he was in a gradual slide.  Hall in WCW was bigger than Razor ever was, and would have been bigger still had it not been for his personal problems.

[Ben Wyatt]

Had Hall been more trustworthy, I would have MUCH rather him as WWF champ. Hell, give him the exact same run as Diesel and I'd imagine it would have been at least better

[Deleted]

He should have won the WWF title instead of Diesel/Nash, IMO. Maybe he wasn't trustworthy enough, I don't know what he was like during that time period, but he was a much better overall talent than Nash and could have made it work.

As far as 1995, yes he was stale, but only because of his opponents. He did nothing noteworthy that entire year except the ladder match with Shawn, and later the feud with Goldust that carried over to 1996. His feuds with Jarrett, 1-2-3 Kid, Douglas, etc, were boring as hell, and his partnership with Savio didn't help him at all. I thought 1994 was his peak, with the WM ladder match, his win over Diesel at Summerslam, and good showing at KOTR before losing to Owen.

[cabbageboy]

I don't think he was that stale in 1995, but just generally directionless. By 1996 though I think Razor had run his course as a character. People forget that he was mostly jobbing to Goldust and Vader during that time period, and in particular the Goldust feud was a freaky storyline for that era. Let's just say several guys in knew in HS were quick to change the channel to Nitro due to that feud.

What I find bizarre about the MNW series on the Network is that they keep acting like WCW was stealing truly valued talents. Here's a newsflash: Hogan was gone by mid 1993, Savage was a commentator the last 2 years of his time in WWF, Nash had lost the title and had largely been jobbed out (Bret, Taker, Shawn), and Hall had been suspended for a failed drug test (I think?) and was going nowhere. Toss in Luger being mostly buried by 1995 and I can't tell you a single guy that Vince lost that meant anything at the time they left.

[willyjakes]

I wouldn't say stale, he was still over. Aimless is a better way to describe it.

But really the entire WWF was stale in 1995. Isn't that the year we had Bret vs Hakushi? I mean...who cares?

[DjZonk]

I remember predicting a heel turn at Summerslam 95. Came so close when he grabbed the belt at the end of the match... but Good Guy Razor forever.

[Saul Goodman]

He was not stale but I was getting very sick of seeing him. He should have turned heel in the Summer of 1995 instead of Bulldog. Bulldog was the number 7 face behind Hart, HBK, Diesel, Undertaker, Razor and Luger. When he turned heel no one thought he would win the world title from Diesel, if Razor turned heel then people would believe that Razor could have been champion. 1995 was filled of faces but no good heels. Yokozunas time had already came, Owen Hart was great but he jobbed to every face a million times, Mabel heel turn was a failure and Sid also jobbed a million times. WWE needed a great heel turn and since HBK just turned face he couldn't turn heel, Diesel couldn't because he was champion, a Undertaker heel turn would not work during the time and Bret Hart was the most over face so a heel turn would not work.

[chazraps]

I've never heard him referred to as stale in '95. That opinion reeks of revisionist attempted edgyness from people who weren't there at the time trying to sound smart a la complaining about Bobby Heenan saying "but whose side is he on?"

Anyone with that opinion you can just stop listening to because they're probably about to try to get you to join WakeUpNow.

[auph10imitated]

Wasn't so much stale but like mostly everyone in 1995 they were all misused or in the wrong roles. A heel turn could have been good for him in fairness.

Everyone was used horribly in 1995, Bret was feuding with Backlund, Lawler, Yankem, JPL etc. Diesel with Sid/Tatanka, Mabel.

Luger and Bulldog did next to nothing as a tag team, Bigelow was jobbed out big time, Taker was in his useless rotation of Ted Dibiase heel phase, Razor was just suffering the same as the rest of them being wasted in random crap like tagging with Savio Vega.

The roster was pretty decent it just had everyone all over the place being programmed with the wrong people and the 1995 KOTR is the biggest testament to this when you have Shawn and Taker eliminated in the first round and Owen, Bulldog, Razor, Hakushi, Kid etc not even working it.

Bigelow could have been a big heel or face coming off Mania and he got wasted too.

1995 had potential it was just horribly booked

[horsemen4ever]

What I thought was weird after In Your House 2/96, Razor just disappeared off tv, he was in the tag team tournament an than got replaced by Austin, and disappeared off TV for a long time, and than made his last TV appearance with no promotion from him at In Your House 4/96, jobs to Vader and he is gone.

[mizerable]

I almost have to agree since Razor just seemed stuck in the IC division. Hell, missing Wrestlemania XII at a time when WWF was thin on talent didn't help.

Still, I can't deny how over Razor was. The only issue is when they would push him, if he ever would be in the big picture.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2014 17:18:05 GMT -5 horsemen4ever said:

What I thought was weird after In Your House 2/96, Razor just disappeared off tv, he was in the tag team tournament an than got replaced by Austin, and disappeared off TV for a long time, and than made his last TV appearance with no promotion from him at In Your House 4/96, jobs to Vader and he is gone.

The story that always has made the rounds was that Hall told McMahon he was going to WCW, so supposedly he failed a drug test convienently after that. As punishment from Vince, he missed Wrestlemania and the payday. Brought back to TV only once, to job to Vader and he was gone after that.

It's weird because Diesel did the same thing, giving notice, yet he didn't fail any drug test and was promeniently featured on TV every week until the same In Your House.

Odd.

[Digital Witness]

The only reason he never got a push towards the world title is that he simply didn't want it and told Vince he wouldn't take it. He was comfortable in the role he was in and probably knew better than anyone that the world title push would only effect his alcohol problem worse.