kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 24, 2014 3:38:24 GMT -5
This thread kind of reads like someone in 1995 saying "What do you mean Bret's being pushed aside and being swept away for Shawn Michaels? Shawn Michaels the top guy? He may never wrestle again, while Bret and Undertaker are set to feud for the title and Diesel's probably gonna win the Rumble!"
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,159
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Dec 24, 2014 3:44:31 GMT -5
To be fair, it's not like Rollins was ready.
He still isn't ready.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 24, 2014 3:53:36 GMT -5
Right now, the only thing that Reigns seems to have going for him is the romance novel cover model looks and the lip service he gets on commentary. His offense is F***ING AWESOME for a hot tag, but needs fleshing out for long singles matches. His promos aren't improving as fast as he needs them to be. He's still crazy over, but so are Ambrose and Ziggler and they're ahead of him in the other two things.
The poor guy has lost all his momentum because of this hernia he had, and now he's fighting from underneath to get all of it back in the space of a month... in a feud with Big Show. I respect the guy and all he's done for wrestling, but he's a hard guy to have a good feud with. I hope WWE find the right way to push him, because hype backlash or not, he's still got a lot of potential and deserves his fair shot eventually, just like everyone else.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 24, 2014 3:58:48 GMT -5
Again, the big point with the Reigns backlash is it's the most blatant example of how the IWC are hipsters there are. The backlash is starting against Reigns as "the man" now not just because they're burned by Cena, but that people know it's etched in stone Reigns is the next one- and these few months give people a chance to get all-important posts in so that when Roman Reigns is the guy and people turn on him like they turned on John Cena (because it's GOING TO HAPPEN- because again, the IWC are hipsters and it's just not cool to like the top babyface in the company), they can say "Well, I have you beat! I hated Roman Reigns BEFORE IT WAS COOL to hate Roman Reigns! I'm hipper, and thus a better smark, than you are, so go jerk off to Roman Reigns matches like the mark you are, mark!"
For the record, I hated Reigns before all of you. I'll have you know the moment Sika sent out pregnancy announcements, I threw a brick through his window saying "Your son's going to suck 30 years from now! You should put him up for adoption and adopt someone like Dolph Ziggler or Daniel Bryan or Sami Zayn (don't worry, in 2015 you'll know who they are and you'll be sorry you didn't listen to me!)"
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gr1990
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,485
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Post by gr1990 on Dec 24, 2014 7:25:48 GMT -5
It's unfortunate for Reigns that all the big events are held in front of smarky crowds. He can get cheered on your average raw in the Midwest, but he'll be booed out of the building in Philly at the Rumble and maybe at Wrestlemania too, and even though those crowds aren't representative of the overall WWE audience, it will look terrible and make his push seem like a disaster because his big moments happened in front of one of the few crowds that wouldn't cheer him. It's crazy how much the audience reaction varies city-to-city these days.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 7:31:08 GMT -5
Let's not lie to ourselves again... this time last year we were all saying, "This guy's gonna be huge!" "This guy just GETS it!" And he is that good, he's just not ready yet. Keep building him until SummerSlam, see if he can actually competently work a singles match or cut a promo by then before you start declaring him the face of the company.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 24, 2014 7:45:44 GMT -5
I really like the dude, but I think it's pretty clear exactly how they're positioning him. To act as if it's totally based on online reports just ain't so.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Dec 24, 2014 8:07:51 GMT -5
Dude you nailed it. A year ago all I heard was how solid this kid is and how he SHOULD be pushed to the moon. Now he has heat online? Hasn't he been injured for a while? This reminds me of 03-05. Cena was catching fire and everyone (I'm talking in generality not absolute) was behind him dethroning HHH and JBL. FF to his wrestlemania win and suddenly he is a pariah. It's as though there is a rule somewhere that says anyone successful has to be turned on.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 8:17:19 GMT -5
Dude you nailed it. A year ago all I heard was how solid this kid is and how he SHOULD be pushed to the moon. Now he has heat online? Hasn't he been injured for a while? This reminds me of 03-05. Cena was catching fire and everyone (I'm talking in generality not absolute) was behind him dethroning HHH and JBL. FF to his wrestlemania win and suddenly he is a pariah. It's as though there is a rule somewhere that says anyone successful has to be turned on. Fun fact - people's opinions can change. No shit Reigns looked like a more solid prospect a year ago, since then he's been put in positions where they've not been able to hide his weaknesses on the mic and in the ring. He does still have a lot of potential to be sure but he's not ready for the main event scene yet. And while we're at it, same goes for Cena. Yeah, he was red-hot back when, but the JBL feud exposed him a bit as he was being shown up on the mic by him, coming off pretty unsympathetic for a lot of the feud, and having bad matches, then they moved him to Raw and put him against people the crowd was more behind like Jericho, Christian, and Angle who also were at every point showing how much better in the ring they were than him. Combine that with how he was getting the same OMIGODCENAISTHEWRESTLINGMESSIAHTHEAAISSODEVESTATINGHOWCANHEOVERCOMETHEODDS?!?!!?!? treatment Reigns is getting and yeah, you talk something up as amazing and scream how awesome and cool it is and how you'd have to be an idiot not to love it and people will turn on it.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Dec 24, 2014 8:22:03 GMT -5
^but dude, if you don't promote someone as being a star than you are leaving money on the table. Don't mistake me, I don't like how we get guys crammed down our throats either. I've been watching for thirty years. I've seen it a lot. But the point I'm trying to make is it has become a popular sport online to hammer someone who gets popular.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 8:25:23 GMT -5
^but dude, if you don't promote someone as being a star than you are leaving money on the table. Don't mistake me, I don't like how we get guys crammed down our throats either. I've been watching for thirty years. I've seen it a lot. But the point I'm trying to make is it has become a popular sport online to hammer someone who gets popular. Which hasn't really been happening with people who are more over than Reigns is like Ziggler, Bryan, and Ambrose. Yeah, there are those people who will turn against something just because it's popular, but just as much there's a tendency for people's weaknesses to be exposed as they get more focus. And in the face of that it's not being shallow at all to turn on somebody. Plus there's a difference between talking Reigns up like a star and acting like any time he's onscreen everyone else in his vicinity might as well not exist.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Dec 24, 2014 8:42:35 GMT -5
^but dude, if you don't promote someone as being a star than you are leaving money on the table. Don't mistake me, I don't like how we get guys crammed down our throats either. I've been watching for thirty years. I've seen it a lot. But the point I'm trying to make is it has become a popular sport online to hammer someone who gets popular. Which hasn't really been happening with people who are more over than Reigns is like Ziggler, Bryan, and Ambrose. Yeah, there are those people who will turn against something just because it's popular, but just as much there's a tendency for people's weaknesses to be exposed as they get more focus. And in the face of that it's not being shallow at all to turn on somebody. Plus there's a difference between talking Reigns up like a star and acting like any time he's onscreen everyone else in his vicinity might as well not exist. A fair point. Peace be upon you. Long days and pleasant nights
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,109
Member is Online
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 24, 2014 8:53:42 GMT -5
Let's not lie to ourselves again... this time last year we were all saying, "This guy's gonna be huge!" "This guy just GETS it!" And he is that good, he's just not ready yet. Keep building him until SummerSlam, see if he can actually competently work a singles match or cut a promo by then before you start declaring him the face of the company. I like Reigns, but one of the biggest problems with his career trajectory is that by putting him in a faction with two experienced, talented workers (instead of ever working against them), and the nature of said faction meaning he'd be working almost exclusively tag matches means he never really got to work the house show circuit in singles matches against somebody who could mentor him in transition moves and ring psychology. So, from Day 1 on the main roster, Reigns was already basically put in the position of only having the "WWE Main Eventer" moveset which is nothing but a bunch of crowd-popping impact moves, with no transition moves to give them context. He really needed to be working house show matches against guys like Cesaro, Harper, and other heels who actually have enough talent not just to carry him, but actively get him used to working transition moves (even simple ones like a Nash or Kane-esque Side Slam) and one or two holds/submissions into his offense. Most importantly, though, GET HIM THE HELL AWAY FROM BIG SHOW.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
GIFs | Shitposts | Fun
Posts: 24,372
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Dec 24, 2014 8:54:59 GMT -5
Fans During Years and Years of Cena/Orton followed by more of Cena/Orton - "BUILD NEW STARS!!"
Fans once WWE starts trying to kinda sorta build new stars - "NO! NOT THAT GUY! THE OTHER GUY!! NO!! THE OTHER OTHER GUY!!"
WASH RINSE SUPLEX REPEAT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 8:59:02 GMT -5
Fans During Years and Years of Cena/Orton followed by more of Cena/Orton - "BUILD NEW STARS!!" Fans once WWE starts trying to kinda sorta build new stars - "NO! NOT THAT GUY! THE OTHER GUY!! NO!! THE OTHER OTHER GUY!!" WASH RINSE SUPLEX REPEAT You say you want something to eat. Somebody gives you something you can barely get down without vomiting. Complaining about it does not make you a hypocrite.
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Post by walterharrow on Dec 24, 2014 9:04:55 GMT -5
I think Reigns would be great as the number one heel. Most people i know dont want to see a 'powerhouse' face because it gets boring to see the face dominate his opponents. Reigns would be great as a heel similar to Mark Henry who is booked strong but will lose every now and then. Booking him as a unstoppable babyface champion wont work in my opinion, but booking him as a (silent) monster heel who targets fan favourite would make him one of the biggest heels in a long time
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 9:08:18 GMT -5
I think Reigns would be great as the number one heel. Most people i know dont want to see a 'powerhouse' face because it gets boring to see the face dominate his opponents. Reigns would be great as a heel similar to Mark Henry who is booked strong but will lose every now and then. Booking him as a unstoppable babyface champion wont work in my opinion, but booking him as a (silent) monster heel who targets fan favourite would make him one of the biggest heels in a long time I think he could work well as a face, but not right now. As a heel though he would be easier to build up credibility for right now - could have him just crush everyone in his path on TV and stick to working longer matches on house shows so he can work on improving but keep up the same sort of unstoppable air they're going for, and as he starts getting enough cheers for how much he wrecks people and he's passable in the ring and on the mic, then you turn him. Pretty much just go the Sheamus face turn route without, you know, treating it like they did after about a month.
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Blindkarevik
Grimlock
Rock... Paper... Straight-edge!
I Like To <blank>
Posts: 14,343
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Post by Blindkarevik on Dec 24, 2014 9:25:42 GMT -5
Let's not lie to ourselves again... this time last year we were all saying, "This guy's gonna be huge!" "This guy just GETS it!" And he is that good, he's just not ready yet. Keep building him until SummerSlam, see if he can actually competently work a singles match or cut a promo by then before you start declaring him the face of the company. This, I agree with. My post is not to say, "bullshit, everybody loved him back then so love him now!" Just trying to take out the revisionists who are now saying they never saw anything in him and he's being shoved down our throats for no reason. That aside, I do think he needs time to get better. I've said he needs to work on his signature moves.... the apron kick is good. But he telegraphs everything else so much, it completely kills momentum. I always hated HBK "warming up" his sweet chin music, just because it's a move that can be done out of nowhere. People STILL talk about the kick to Shelton Benjamin. Plus, it confused the fans... I still have no idea why they felt the need to count with his foot stomping. Just really takes you out of the moment. Reigns "loads" his superman punch, then waits for his opponent to get to their feet.... hits the punch. Then, pumps his shoulders.... waits for his opponent to start getting to his feet... shouts... waits a few more seconds to get in position, then hits the spear. Just kills momentum. The point of both moves is it's something that can happen at any time.... The best superman punches he's ever done have been on the fly. I don't even mind the punch to the ground before hitting it, I just think it should go from a standstill to be done on an opponent rebound from the ropes. Make a "turn the tide" or comeback move. Like, opponent goes to the ropes, tries a clothesline, Reigns ducks... punches the ground, and on opponent rebound.. Reigns jumps backward and connects with the punch. The spear.... stop with the shoulder pumps. I don't mind the yell, but it should only be done if time will allow it. Not mechanical as it has become. He has gotten better on his own. I do believe he'll be something really special in the future, just that if WWE wants to hitch their wagon to him right now, they're taking a huge chance. Granted, I do think he has it in him, where if he takes the title and the run completely flops... he can drop the title, do a vicious heel turn, get back into the title hunt, and remain there for the rest of his career face or heel.
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 24, 2014 9:28:36 GMT -5
Is that he hasn't even been PUSHED that hard, yet. Everyone who complains about him being SUPERMAN CENA 2.0 is basing it off online reports about plans for the FUTURE, while Roman is just some upper midcarder at the moment. ZIGGLER is getting a bigger push than Roman Reigns right now. I get that the rumors of slaying the Beast have been around forever, but Roman, even if not injured, wasn't exactly getting the "rocket strapped to his ass" push that many people claim he's already gotten. Other than the rumble record, his only big highlight of 2014 was beating Orton at Summerslam. That's it. It's just so intriguing to see someone get so much hate, for so much time, for a push he hasn't even officially received yet. Look up "It's Popular, Now It Sucks" on TV Tropes. There ya go. (Or within the IWC, "It's a hoss, it must suck")
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 24, 2014 9:58:20 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that the people who called for Reigns to be pushed to the moon are now the ones decrying him, saying he's not ready for the push he's receiving or are people just playing the 'you smarks' game again?
I've always been consistent, Reigns could be a big deal but not if he's pushed at this point in time as he hasn't found his feet as a solo performer. WWE forced main eventer pushes almost always backfire as they don't take the time to let guys build a real connection with the audience, Sheamus and Del Rio spring to mind. I won't take any pleasure in seeing another guy become a main eventer in name only because the WWE had to get them there NOW! ahead of guys that had built a proper connection with the fanbase.
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