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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 11:15:48 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 11:16:57 GMT -5
34.6% is still much higher than I thought it'd be honestly. This has been the year of the disqualification.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 31, 2014 11:20:04 GMT -5
I'd honestly like to see the stats for other years, because I'm certain it's been like this for ages.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Dec 31, 2014 11:21:30 GMT -5
It felt like years between real finishes during the NWO years
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 31, 2014 11:24:55 GMT -5
DQ finishes aren't the problem. It's all the shitty TV that comes before the DQ that's the issue. The DQ is just the cherry on a dookie sundae.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 11:38:49 GMT -5
DQ finishes aren't the problem. It's all the shitty TV that comes before the DQ that's the issue. The DQ is just the cherry on a dookie sundae. I dunno, this attitude that week after week after week they can have the faces completely kick the heels' asses but it's okay because somebody shoves the face while the heel's lying there dead so it's not a three count is just infuriating. It doesn't actually protect anyone, you can always see it coming from a mile away, and it renders the match before it a complete waste of time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 11:43:47 GMT -5
It's a free TV show.
in the Attitude era the TV matches usually didn't even end in DQ (they just ended)
They don't give away matches they can make money out of for free on Raw, they bait and switch it, has been the business model since when TV moved on from having an Upper Midcarder Vs a Jobber as the main event.
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Post by molson5 on Dec 31, 2014 11:47:30 GMT -5
They're counting segments as indecisive finishes? And the numbers are meaningless without context. What would be a "good" number and why? What were numbers in previous years, in the attitude era, in the 80s . In the 80s wwe tv shows didn't even have main events, or they went on first. Was that just inherently wrong? Was the last raw show ending just inherently bad and the functional equivalent of a dq? Maybe more RAWs should end with segments and angles and brawls, leave the epic main events with clean finishes for ppvs and house shows. There's just an underlying assumption to this stat that isn't necessarily true,
Indecisive finishes and segment endings have been around forever, they're a way to protect guys. There's posters that can't handle the amount of losses guys have to take as it is
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 11:48:18 GMT -5
It's a free TV show. in the Attitude era the TV matches usually didn't even end in DQ (they just ended) They don't give away matches they can make money out of for free on Raw, they bait and switch it, has been the business model since when TV moved on from having an Upper Midcarder Vs a Jobber as the main event. Few things about that. One, most of their money is made through TV and that's where the vast majority of their viewers draw the line as it relates to what they watch. So they should be throwing them a bone every now and then. Two, if you want to save it for the PPV, then save it for the PPV instead of having the guys face each other every single week for months on end. The matches still usually go fifteen or twenty minutes so nothing is really different between, "Face pins the guy on the PPV," and, "Face has the guy pinned on Raw except Kane breaks it up then he fights Kane off and stands tall to end the show." Three, they're constantly doing this shit on PPVs too.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 31, 2014 11:49:15 GMT -5
DQ finishes aren't the problem. It's all the shitty TV that comes before the DQ that's the issue. The DQ is just the cherry on a dookie sundae. I dunno, this attitude that week after week after week they can have the faces completely kick the heels' asses but it's okay because somebody shoves the face while the heel's lying there dead so it's not a three count is just infuriating. It doesn't actually protect anyone, you can always see it coming from a mile away, and it renders the match before it a complete waste of time. True but that's more because WWE has seemingly forgot the purpose of a DQ finish (to make you want to see a rematch) instead of the DQ finish itself being a bad thing. DQ finishes on bad TV aren't inherently bad. Hell, sometimes they are needed. The problem is that, as you said, WWE does it in the laziest way possible that just pisses you off after what was already a worthless match.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 31, 2014 11:53:23 GMT -5
It's a free TV show. in the Attitude era the TV matches usually didn't even end in DQ (they just ended) They don't give away matches they can make money out of for free on Raw, they bait and switch it, has been the business model since when TV moved on from having an Upper Midcarder Vs a Jobber as the main event. The issue is, they AREN'T doing it with matches they can make money off. Who in the world would pay a dime to see Rollins, Kane, & Orton face John Cena & Dean Ambrose in their best of 1000 series? DQ finishes aren't bad but WWE makes it bad by doing them for matches no one could possibly care about. It's lazy, straight up. They use it as a crutch to put no thought in their main events because who cares, shit is gonna end in a scmhozz anyway? If everybody needs to protected to the point where every main event for like 2 months ends in a DQ, start booking some different matches.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 31, 2014 11:55:07 GMT -5
In before Kane does a run in and causes this thread to be disqualified
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Post by Kayfabe FAN don't want none on Dec 31, 2014 11:58:31 GMT -5
In before Kane does a run in and causes this thread to be disqualified Too late
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Post by molson5 on Dec 31, 2014 12:01:20 GMT -5
It's a free TV show. in the Attitude era the TV matches usually didn't even end in DQ (they just ended) They don't give away matches they can make money out of for free on Raw, they bait and switch it, has been the business model since when TV moved on from having an Upper Midcarder Vs a Jobber as the main event. The issue is, they AREN'T doing it with matches they can make money off. Who in the world would pay a dime to see Rollins, Kane, & Orton face John Cena & Dean Ambrose in their best of 1000 series? DQ finishes aren't bad but WWE makes it bad by doing them for matches no one could possibly care about. It's lazy, straight up. They use it as a crutch to put no thought in their main events because who cares, shit is gonna end in a scmhozz anyway? If everybody needs to protected to the point where every main event for like 2 months ends in a DQ, start booking some different matches. It's tough to book different matches when you have 100 tv main events to do every year, especially if the majority involve someone losing decisively, which is apparently what people want.
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Post by xCompackx on Dec 31, 2014 12:18:55 GMT -5
I mean, main events ending in shenanigans isn't exactly a crazy idea since they've gotta find ways to make you want to tune in next week without devaluing everyone in clean finishes. I know that doing them every single week can seem boring, but I don't know.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 31, 2014 12:23:21 GMT -5
That's ok, because they all build to the PPV's where we get decisive finishes.
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 31, 2014 12:24:02 GMT -5
I read this and had to kind of laugh. They'd really, really hate Dusty-booked wrestling, then.
I honestly am not against main event-level match ups rarely being clean on TV. That's fine, but you could probably stand to close the show with like, something like Rollins beating Sheamus in a competitive match, match ups like that which wouldn't really sell a PPV but which could be a nice 15 minute matchup and end the show on a high note, or at the least, the last match. I get that cliffhangers are sort of a given, but they don't work nearly as well if you try to pull them every week. There are diminishing returns.
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Post by Unaffiliated on Dec 31, 2014 12:45:57 GMT -5
If I had to give a percentage estimate of decisive/non-decisive RAW finishes based on all the RAWs I have watched, it would probably be around there (30/70 - 35/65). Even then, how many of these decisive finishes involve some kind of cheating or outside interference one way or the other?
I can't really decide if I have a problem with this, but yes it would be nice for main-event wrestlers to have matches with a greater variety of opponents rather than just the guys they are feuding with.
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Post by Sparvid on Dec 31, 2014 12:58:48 GMT -5
Reminded me of this DQ streak:
Sep 16th - Smackdown: Rusev vs Reigns Sep 21st - Night of Champions: Lesnar vs Cena Sep 22nd - Raw: Orton vs Cena Sep 23rd - Smackdown: Big Show vs Rusev Sep 29th - Raw: Ambrose & Cena vs Kane & Orton Sep 30th - Smackdown: Ambrose & Cena vs Kane & Orton (again) Oct 6th - Raw: Cena vs Kane, Orton & Rollins
Then for the Smackdown 15th Anniversary, Rollins was (somehow) able to pin Kofi.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 31, 2014 13:03:22 GMT -5
The issue is, they AREN'T doing it with matches they can make money off. Who in the world would pay a dime to see Rollins, Kane, & Orton face John Cena & Dean Ambrose in their best of 1000 series? DQ finishes aren't bad but WWE makes it bad by doing them for matches no one could possibly care about. It's lazy, straight up. They use it as a crutch to put no thought in their main events because who cares, shit is gonna end in a scmhozz anyway? If everybody needs to protected to the point where every main event for like 2 months ends in a DQ, start booking some different matches. It's tough to book different matches when you have 100 tv main events to do every year, especially if the majority involve someone losing decisively, which is apparently what people want. I'm not arguing that. It's hard, hence why you have to do non-decisive finishes sometimes. There gets to a point, however, when you use it as a crutch and WWE reached that point. If you are going eight weeks without a real finish in your main events, that's a problem especially if it's the same bullshit DQ every time. At least get creative with your non-finishes.
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