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Post by radiantsilvergun on Jan 10, 2015 11:03:15 GMT -5
Anyone else think Tana/Okada was better than Nakamura/Ibushi? If so, why? I feel like Tana/Okada is the better match but I can't really find any solid reasons as to why. Maybe it was the atmosphere or dat limb targeting.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Jan 10, 2015 11:09:28 GMT -5
Anyone else think Tana/Okada was better than Nakamura/Ibushi? If so, why? I feel like Tana/Okada is the better match but I can't really find any solid reasons as to why. Maybe it was the atmosphere or dat limb targeting. I felt it started off a little slow, but the last 5-10 minutes was brilliantly put together.
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Post by Viking Snad on Jan 10, 2015 15:47:48 GMT -5
Only think I can think of is Tana with the High Fly Flow spamming. Almost to Bucks/superkick level.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jan 10, 2015 15:53:49 GMT -5
Wow, this thread has taken a nasty turn. Y'all have gone full crazed puro fan. I go to a number of different puroresu message boards and this page is exactly how most posts when discussing pro wrestling outside of Japan goes. To be fair, quite a good percentage of the IWC fans have been less then pleased with the WWE's mediocrity and their track record with Japanese wrestlers has been incredibly dismal.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 10, 2015 16:08:33 GMT -5
Wow, this thread has taken a nasty turn. Y'all have gone full crazed puro fan. I go to a number of different puroresu message boards and this page is exactly how most posts when discussing pro wrestling outside of Japan goes. To be fair, quite a good percentage of the IWC fans have been less then pleased with the WWE's mediocrity and their track record with Japanese wrestlers has been incredibly dismal. I'm talking about how people are going full bore with the New Japan love and setting themselves up for disappointment because NJPW isn't all the time Wrestle Kingdom. Outside of the big events like G1 Climax and Best of the Super Juniors, it's pretty standard fare with lots of tag matches to fill the cards. Don't get me wrong, New Japan is great. But it's the extreme tunnel vision that is perplexing.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jan 10, 2015 16:16:11 GMT -5
New Japan's worst show I've seen has been on par with WWE and TNA's best show of the past year. I've been watching them for the past three years and started full time mid 2013 and each time I've come away satisfied.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jan 10, 2015 16:21:13 GMT -5
To be fair, quite a good percentage of the IWC fans have been less then pleased with the WWE's mediocrity and their track record with Japanese wrestlers has been incredibly dismal. I'm talking about how people are going full bore with the New Japan love and setting themselves up for disappointment because NJPW isn't all the time Wrestle Kingdom. Outside of the big events like G1 Climax and Best of the Super Juniors, it's pretty standard fare with lots of tag matches to fill the cards. Don't get me wrong, New Japan is great. But it's the extreme tunnel vision that is perplexing. As Chrom alluded to, even when it's still the standard fare, the average NJPW show is still enjoyable, because it doesn't have overused authority figures, braying jackasses on commentary, overbooked nonsense and the like. Sometimes, it's just fun to watch wrestling, for you know, the actual wrestling.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 10, 2015 16:24:36 GMT -5
I'm talking about how people are going full bore with the New Japan love and setting themselves up for disappointment because NJPW isn't all the time Wrestle Kingdom. Outside of the big events like G1 Climax and Best of the Super Juniors, it's pretty standard fare with lots of tag matches to fill the cards. Don't get me wrong, New Japan is great. But it's the extreme tunnel vision that is perplexing. As Chrom alluded to, even when it's still the standard fare, the average NJPW show is still enjoyable, because it doesn't have overused authority figures, braying jackasses on commentary, overbooked nonsense and the like. Sometimes, it's just fun to watch wrestling, for you know, the actual wrestling. As I said, it's enjoyable but it's not God's gift to pro wrestling in my honest opinion. There are a number of puro companies out there that produce shows just as good as NJPW but don't get the press as them. And Japan isn't immune to the things you mentioned.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jan 10, 2015 16:30:03 GMT -5
As Chrom alluded to, even when it's still the standard fare, the average NJPW show is still enjoyable, because it doesn't have overused authority figures, braying jackasses on commentary, overbooked nonsense and the like. Sometimes, it's just fun to watch wrestling, for you know, the actual wrestling. As I said, it's enjoyable but it's not God's gift to pro wrestling in my honest opinion. There are a number of puro companies out there that produce shows just as good as NJPW but don't get the press as them. And Japan isn't immune to the things you mentioned. Of course, but as the largest company, it is the most easily accessible, thus the most seen to Western eyes. I have watched many other Puroesu companies, such as AJPW, ZERO-ONE, FMW, UWF-I, W*ING, RINGS, BattlARTS, DDT, BJPW, Michinoku Pro, Pancrase and Osaka Pro, among others, and enjoy them as well. But, again, as said, it's easier to access NJPW, just because of things like this PPV now.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 10, 2015 16:36:31 GMT -5
As I said, it's enjoyable but it's not God's gift to pro wrestling in my honest opinion. There are a number of puro companies out there that produce shows just as good as NJPW but don't get the press as them. And Japan isn't immune to the things you mentioned. Of course, but as the largest company, it is the most easily accessible, thus the most seen to Western eyes. I have watched many other Puroesu companies, such as AJPW, ZERO-ONE, FMW, UWF-I, W*ING, RINGS, BattlARTS, DDT, BJPW, Michinoku Pro, Pancrase and Osaka Pro, among others, and enjoy them as well. But, again, as said, it's easier to access NJPW, just because of things like this PPV now. Current promotions that deserves some love are Dragon Gate, DDT, Big Japan, All Japan, and NOAH. NOAH will be getting some attention once more since they are doing an invasion angle with Suzuki-Gun. I sense they will be the next IWC crush object because of this. Today was the first time Meltzer mentioned them on his website since announcing Kenta going to WWE. Just like he finally did with New Japan after getting begged to watch the shows 3 years ago and once he did fell back in love with it, he's going to watch NOAH and fall in love with them. Which will lead to others noticing the company.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jan 10, 2015 16:36:50 GMT -5
As Chrom alluded to, even when it's still the standard fare, the average NJPW show is still enjoyable, because it doesn't have overused authority figures, braying jackasses on commentary, overbooked nonsense and the like. Sometimes, it's just fun to watch wrestling, for you know, the actual wrestling. As I said, it's enjoyable but it's not God's gift to pro wrestling in my honest opinion. There are a number of puro companies out there that produce shows just as good as NJPW but don't get the press as them. And Japan isn't immune to the things you mentioned. I know there's other good wrestling in Japan as well. I check out NOAH, AJPW, and Dragon Gate on Dailymotion when I get the chance. And have watched a couple of DDT shows also. NOAH and AJPW are in the rebuilding stages right now and lack the resources New Japan has. If they get back more the merrier to show people there's more to Wrestling than just WWE.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jan 10, 2015 16:41:13 GMT -5
Of course, but as the largest company, it is the most easily accessible, thus the most seen to Western eyes. I have watched many other Puroesu companies, such as AJPW, ZERO-ONE, FMW, UWF-I, W*ING, RINGS, BattlARTS, DDT, BJPW, Michinoku Pro, Pancrase and Osaka Pro, among others, and enjoy them as well. But, again, as said, it's easier to access NJPW, just because of things like this PPV now. Current promotions that deserves some love are Dragon Gate, DDT, Big Japan, All Japan, and NOAH. NOAH will be getting some attention once more since they are doing an invasion angle with Suzuki-Gun. I sense they will be the next IWC crush object because of this. Today was the first time Meltzer mentioned them on his website since announcing Kenta going to WWE. Just like he finally did with New Japan after getting begged to watch the shows 3 years ago and once he did fell back in love with it, he's going to watch NOAH and fall in love with them. Which will lead to others noticing the company. The only problem is NOAH has been in a very steady decline for quite some time. Their roster is very thin, with few actual draws. And the same interest you mentioned comes from a NJPW stable. Now, would this somehow cause a massive revival and turn of fortune, would it be nice? Sure, competition is always good, and I'd watch, but again, NOAH and NJPW's current states are very different.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Jan 10, 2015 16:47:36 GMT -5
Of course, but as the largest company, it is the most easily accessible, thus the most seen to Western eyes. I have watched many other Puroesu companies, such as AJPW, ZERO-ONE, FMW, UWF-I, W*ING, RINGS, BattlARTS, DDT, BJPW, Michinoku Pro, Pancrase and Osaka Pro, among others, and enjoy them as well. But, again, as said, it's easier to access NJPW, just because of things like this PPV now. Current promotions that deserves some love are Dragon Gate, DDT, Big Japan, All Japan, and NOAH. NOAH will be getting some attention once more since they are doing an invasion angle with Suzuki-Gun. I sense they will be the next IWC crush object because of this. Today was the first time Meltzer mentioned them on his website since announcing Kenta going to WWE. Just like he finally did with New Japan after getting begged to watch the shows 3 years ago and once he did fell back in love with it, he's going to watch NOAH and fall in love with them. Which will lead to others noticing the company. Sincere request: Could you please one show from each of those promotions from 2011 or sooner you would recommend checking out? I think having a gateway-thread to the Puro world, now that everyone is WK9-crazy, might be a great thing for a lot of us.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 10, 2015 16:49:36 GMT -5
Current promotions that deserves some love are Dragon Gate, DDT, Big Japan, All Japan, and NOAH. NOAH will be getting some attention once more since they are doing an invasion angle with Suzuki-Gun. I sense they will be the next IWC crush object because of this. Today was the first time Meltzer mentioned them on his website since announcing Kenta going to WWE. Just like he finally did with New Japan after getting begged to watch the shows 3 years ago and once he did fell back in love with it, he's going to watch NOAH and fall in love with them. Which will lead to others noticing the company. The only problem is NOAH has been in a very steady decline for quite some time. Their roster is very thin, with few actual draws. And the same interest you mentioned comes from a NJPW stable. Now, would this somehow cause a massive revival and turn of fortune, would it be nice? Sure, competition is always good, and I'd watch, but again, NOAH and NJPW's current states are very different. New Japan had their dark moments a few years ago when they ran into financial problems before their core wrestlers caught on fire with the fans and Bushiroad bought the company and made wholesale changes. NOAH has been on a decline. No doubt about that. Kenta leaving for WWE was a near deathblow. Outside of New Japan and Dragon Gate, just about every puro promotions use regular freelancers to pad out shows and bring in fans. I think this will help them out because invasion angles tend to change companies' fortune in Japan. All Japan after the NOAH split worked with New Japan to stay alive after losing 90% of the roster and staff. Now it's NOAH's turn to use New Japan for revival.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 10, 2015 16:51:39 GMT -5
Current promotions that deserves some love are Dragon Gate, DDT, Big Japan, All Japan, and NOAH. NOAH will be getting some attention once more since they are doing an invasion angle with Suzuki-Gun. I sense they will be the next IWC crush object because of this. Today was the first time Meltzer mentioned them on his website since announcing Kenta going to WWE. Just like he finally did with New Japan after getting begged to watch the shows 3 years ago and once he did fell back in love with it, he's going to watch NOAH and fall in love with them. Which will lead to others noticing the company. Sincere request: Could you please one show from each of those promotions from 2011 or sooner you would recommend checking out? I think having a gateway-thread to the Puro world, now that everyone is WK9-crazy, might be a great thing for a lot of us. I was actually thinking about making something like that so people can get to know wrestlers and companies they should know about. If you make it, I'll try to provide things for it.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jan 10, 2015 17:00:13 GMT -5
The only problem is NOAH has been in a very steady decline for quite some time. Their roster is very thin, with few actual draws. And the same interest you mentioned comes from a NJPW stable. Now, would this somehow cause a massive revival and turn of fortune, would it be nice? Sure, competition is always good, and I'd watch, but again, NOAH and NJPW's current states are very different. New Japan had their dark moments a few years ago when they ran into financial problems before their core wrestlers caught on fire with the fans and Bushiroad bought the company and made wholesale changes. NOAH has been on a decline. No doubt about that. Kenta leaving for WWE was a near deathblow. Outside of New Japan and Dragon Gate, just about every puro promotions use regular freelancers to pad out shows and bring in fans. I think this will help them out because invasion angles tend to change companies' fortune in Japan. All Japan after the NOAH split worked with New Japan to stay alive after losing 90% of the roster and staff. Now it's NOAH's turn to use New Japan for revival. The difference is after the dark period of 2001-2006, they had two bright, young stars, Tanahashi and Nakamura, to build them on, NOAH literally had no new young talent debut for them in six years. From 2005 to like 2011, there was not one single young lion they had. Marufuji, Suigura, and to a lesser degree, Morishima, can try to keep them afloat for now, but unless their two newbies, Kitamiya and Kumano, are diamonds in the rough, or until they actually get new young lions, they still have a dim future.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 10, 2015 17:11:16 GMT -5
New Japan had their dark moments a few years ago when they ran into financial problems before their core wrestlers caught on fire with the fans and Bushiroad bought the company and made wholesale changes. NOAH has been on a decline. No doubt about that. Kenta leaving for WWE was a near deathblow. Outside of New Japan and Dragon Gate, just about every puro promotions use regular freelancers to pad out shows and bring in fans. I think this will help them out because invasion angles tend to change companies' fortune in Japan. All Japan after the NOAH split worked with New Japan to stay alive after losing 90% of the roster and staff. Now it's NOAH's turn to use New Japan for revival. The difference is after the dark period of 2001-2006, they had two bright, young stars, Tanahashi and Nakamura, to build them on, NOAH literally had no new young talent debut for them in six years. From 2005 to like 2011, there was not one single young lion they had. Marufuji, Suigura, and to a lesser degree, Morishima, can try to keep them afloat for now, but unless their two newbies, Kitamiya and Kumano, are diamonds in the rough, or until they actually get new young lions, they still have a dim future. NOAH ran into the problem of being way too harsh to the dojo rookies to the point they quit and go train somewhere else. If you do averages, each major promotion have about 8 to 12 young boys in their dojo. Only 4 to 6 will make it to the ring. Half of that will even make it out their first year. NOAH basically is using younger wrestlers from Diamond Ring, DDT, K-Dojo, and Michinoku Pro to use as new blood.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 19:37:58 GMT -5
Dragon Gate stuff is hard to find. I can't find any DVD sellers out there.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jan 10, 2015 20:29:43 GMT -5
All I know is that Pro Wrestling NOAH needs to make those Christmas DVDs available in the united states,I am tired of out of context youtube clips, I need context, dammit!
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 10, 2015 20:56:46 GMT -5
It would definitely be interesting to see fans sticking with companies like NJPW through the non-supercard periods. Part of the equation is how much you're willing to put up with from not-as-important shows if you know the payoff is going to include shows like WK or Climax, and part of it is simply if people find themselves simply enjoying the overall presentation more than a typical WWE (or whatever other US company) show.
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