mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 9, 2015 17:02:42 GMT -5
My favourite wrestler is Stone Cold, but damn he was crap in 2002. I watch back all of his stuff (when he was an active roster member), his old matches, segments etc and enjoy them all. I basically never, ever watch back 2002 Stone Cold though. Many people don't rate his 2001 heel turn, but he was on FIRE that year in the ring and character wise, in my opinion. Just 4 to 5 star match after 4 to 5 star match for a straight year.
And obviously he was great all the time before then too from 96 to 2001, with a break in 2000, as the classic beer swilling, finger gesturing, authority defying redneck that spearheaded the attitude era. I enjoyed his last brief in ring run in 2003 too. Lets ignore Sheriff Austin.
Yet after his excellent performances of 2001, he turned face for no reason at the end of the year and, despite a few cool moments: Supermarket brawl, a few of the What? promos were fun, one or two okay matches, he was totally gone in 2002. He was still massively over despite opinions to the contrary, but it just wasn't the same. They tried to recreate the Mcmahon Austin feud but again wasn't the same. He had a poor storyline with Flair and Big Show. He also should have wrestled Hogan at Mania (I mean c'mon) but instead we got Austin's worst Mania match againt Scott Hall. Also had a stinker vs Taker at Backlash and a few stinkers vs Jericho. Then again it could be argued those guys never gelled.
There were personal problems behind the scenes; he was burnt out from running so hard in 2001, injured, not happy with creative, and of course.. all the Debra stuff. His fall from top performer to mid carder who seemed irrelevant, had no fire in his eyes anymore, and put on some crappy matches was so sudden it was remarkable.
Anyway, this thread is not just about Austin. What are your thoughts on Stone Cold's burn out and fall from excellent performer to a shell of his former self within about three months?
And which other wrestlers have noticeable down periods or bad years?
Edit: I always liked the "What is exactly is a nature boy?" exchange..
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Post by madness50 on Jan 9, 2015 17:13:34 GMT -5
I was sick of Austin by the spring of 2002. I was always a fan of his before, but he was very boring at that point. Undertaker was like that the year before, from the summer of 2001 through the remainder of the year, he was dreadful.
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Jan 9, 2015 17:13:57 GMT -5
The spark had gone really. WWE wasn't as popular or on fire as it was from 98-2000 and Austin was back to being a face again. It had all been played out. He didn't get the Hogan match at Mania either and as you said his matches ranged from average to terrible. That Jericho match at No Way Out in particular I remember being an awful chopfest.
And of course always lingering in the background was his neck issues. It's easy to see why Austin wasn't as motivated and called it a day a year later.
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Paco on Jan 9, 2015 17:14:13 GMT -5
Unmotivated due to crappy booking.
I'm amazed it doesn't happen more often than it should.
Maybe his requested feud with Eddie Guerrero was his own way to get motivation back.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Jan 9, 2015 17:15:10 GMT -5
Yet after his excellent performances of 2001, he turned face for no reason at the end of the year I wouldn't say there was "no reason" simply because he was getting cheered no matter what. He started to plateau as a heel towards the end as well, in fact him joining the Alliance simply reused the same Stone Cold we saw right after Mania, so his heel turn was going to run out of steam one way or another simply because they exhausted themselves too heavily trying to get the fans to hate him. It didn't work. What? It didn't work. |
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 9, 2015 17:15:44 GMT -5
A lot of people also cite Summer 2013 as a bad year for Punk. Thoughts?
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 9, 2015 17:17:25 GMT -5
Yet after his excellent performances of 2001, he turned face for no reason at the end of the year I wouldn't say there was "no reason" simply because he was getting cheered no matter what. He started to plateau as a heel towards the end as well, in fact him joining the Alliance simply reused the same Stone Cold we saw right after Mania, so his heel turn was going to run out of steam one way or another simply because they exhausted themselves too heavily trying to get the fans to hate him. It didn't work. What? It didn't work. When I mean no reason, I really mean they could have turned him better. Perhaps keep him heel up to WM 18 and have face HHH beat him for the title. Then turn Austin face. The way they turned him was nonsencial. Like they just flipped a switch on the back of his head from "bad guy" to "good guy". |
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Jan 9, 2015 17:21:40 GMT -5
A lot of people also cite Summer 2013 as a bad year for Punk. Thoughts? Other than the Lesnar feud he was treading water for much of the year after the Taker match I feel. |
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Post by revolver86 on Jan 9, 2015 17:22:13 GMT -5
A lot of people also cite Summer 2013 as a bad year for Punk. Thoughts? I would agree with the exception that said summer started with the Lesnar feud which was all sorts of awesome. |
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Jan 9, 2015 17:31:28 GMT -5
When I mean no reason, I really mean they could have turned him better. Perhaps keep him heel up to WM 18 and have face HHH beat him for the title. Then turn Austin face. The way they turned him was nonsencial. Like they just flipped a switch on the back of his head from "bad guy" to "good guy". There were many problems, but I think they realized that they could do it and no one would give a shit, and they were right. The bigger issue to me at least was what they did to Angle. That made no f***ing sense at all. Yeah, he "played both sides" but he did ultimately help WWF win. Why is he a bad guy? |
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Post by xCompackx on Jan 9, 2015 17:33:37 GMT -5
It's amazing just how short his run really was. Summer 1996 until fall of 1999 then came back for a year and a half - and was only the top guy half of that. And yet they did a lot more with him back then than they have with John Cena in the 10+ years he's been on top. |
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 9, 2015 17:52:07 GMT -5
It's amazing just how short his run really was. Summer 1996 until fall of 1999 then came back for a year and a half - and was only the top guy half of that. And it was goddamn awesome while it lasted..  |
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Burst
El Dandy
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Post by Burst on Jan 9, 2015 17:55:03 GMT -5
I think they pretty much ran out of things to do with Austin as a character plus his injuries, and Austin was actually willing to admit it and retire.
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Post by Starshine on Jan 9, 2015 17:57:30 GMT -5
He had a match with Undertaker that year that was so boring. Just unmaginably dull.
It's pretty amazing how being the only game in town hurt WWE like it did.
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RIHT
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Post by RIHT on Jan 9, 2015 18:09:48 GMT -5
He was booked horribly then. Of course he was boring. Plus, his face turn was pretty rushed, so he didn't get the momentum a face turn usually gives to a guy.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Jan 9, 2015 18:09:55 GMT -5
I remember he pissed on Arn Anderson in 2002........yeah he sucked in 2002
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 9, 2015 18:11:10 GMT -5
He was booked horribly then. Of course he was boring. Plus, his face turn was pretty rushed, so he didn't get the momentum a face turn usually gives to a guy. Agreed. They just hit the reset button then moved him down the card. |
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Tony Schiavontay
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Jan 9, 2015 22:49:04 GMT -5
To be honest, you honestly can't blame a guy for taking advantage of his "f*** you" money and just quitting for awhile. He basically just turned from badass paranoid heel into a comedy midcard babyface almost overnight (when, honestly, he probably shouldn't have ever been changed from badass babyface). His feud with Scott Hall was terrible, the match at Wrestlemania was worse and that Ric Flair feud he was in was going nowhere at all when he bolted.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 9, 2015 23:13:26 GMT -5
I remember he squirted mustard on Arn Anderson in 2002........yeah he sucked in 2002 |
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 9, 2015 23:17:25 GMT -5
The supermarket deal was actually in Dec. 2001 I think, so one could argue Austin did nothing of any value in the entire year of 2002. If I recall one of the major reasons guys like Guerrero and Benoit were brought to Raw was for Austin to have some decent guys to feud with. He was in the midst of a storyline with Eddie right when he walked out.
Truth be told I don't think Austin could recover from the heel turn. You don't just do that sort of heel turn, which kills the very essence of your character, and then simply turn face again like nothing happened. Beyond that his matches were terrible and his promos with the "What?" crap even worse. The guy lost all of his talent in seemingly 1 month.
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