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Post by Ashy Larry on Jan 12, 2015 9:55:11 GMT -5
This is a company that has had ALL of the resources to be a true alternative to the WWE with all of the talent they've had but gosh, the production is just so cheap considering the amount of money Dixie could have used instead of wasting it on people who only helped TNA in the short term along with keeping Russo employed for as long as they've had. They have the ability to put on something that can be on the level of an NXT or a Ring Of Honor quality show but instead you get all this cheaply made reality stuff that just looks cliche. The ropes aren't even black, they are more of a grey or dark blue if you look deeply. Why is their production so cheap in comparison to what they had in 2006 or 2011, even 2002 had a better setup. They may have slightly more wrestling than the WWE now, but the direction creatively is nonexistent. The way they booked Bobby Lashley has been the only redeeming quality.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 11:21:41 GMT -5
It's because TNA marks tend to delude themselves into thinking that TNA will, in a few months, overtake them sons of bitches up in Stamford. When you try telling them that the product, overall is crap, they about lose it and call you a WWE homer (well, using clean terms), even if you also note that the WWE product is also terrible.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 12:39:53 GMT -5
My issue with TNA is that they are done getting second or third or fourth chances.
I watched the first of the manhattan shows last year and was buzzing about how enjoyable it was. Didn't tune in the next week because of the old "fool me once, shame on you" saying.
TNA have screwed up so much I refuse to give them any more chances. I mean all they had to do was keep going slow and steady at the level they were at in 2009 and they would have been in a much better position now than the one they find themselves in.
Hogan and bischoff really f***ed things up. Bischoffs track record in wrestling is awful really. I mean everything he did as a quick fix for that short success in WCW ultimately crumbled around him pretty quick.
Also Hogan is a drew when used correctly (ie under the WWE machine) until he attached himself to the NWO he was pretty much a flop in WCW and that was back in 1994 not 2010
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jan 12, 2015 17:28:04 GMT -5
Cause everytime they look to take one step forward they take five steps back. And whenever they look ready to turn the corner all you have to do is count to 5 for them to do something idiotic.
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Post by Zombie Mod is not a ghoul. on Jan 12, 2015 17:39:03 GMT -5
11. OTHER SITES: Do not post negative comments about other message boards. Do not use this forum as a vehicle to discuss your vandalism or abuse of any site (e.g. Wikipedia). Do not vandalize or attempt to start an argument "in our name" anywhere.
just as a reminder to anyone else who names any other boards in this thread
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Jan 12, 2015 19:34:55 GMT -5
TNA defenders have a very bad habit of resorting to what can only be called insane troll logic.
Some prime examples of this strange phenomenon include the various defenses of the #ItHappens spoiler, the tweets I posted in one of the Spike cancellation thread where someone tried to accuse WWE of paying Spike to cancel TNA so they'd be rid of such "fantastic" competition, and the person who tried to defend how TNA's booking Mark Andrews right off the bat to me yesterday on Twitter by mentioning EC3, Spud, and Bram...conveniently "forgetting" that EC3 and Bram had what could be considered bigger roles on the show right off the bat and Spud had basically nothing 'til midway through his own run with the company. (I briefly entertained the notion of a civil discussion with that one, then saw that they'd tweeted Dixie "I love you", realized just what I was dealing with, then employed the mute setting.)
Now, I'm not saying that everyone that defends TNA is like this, but it's become a pretty depressing and disturbing trend to see.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jan 12, 2015 19:53:47 GMT -5
TNA defenders have a very bad habit of resorting to what can only be called insane troll logic. Some prime examples of this strange phenomenon include the various defenses of the #ItHappens spoiler, the tweets I posted in one of the Spike cancellation thread where someone tried to accuse WWE of paying Spike to cancel TNA so they'd be rid of such "fantastic" competition, and the person who tried to defend how TNA's booking Mark Andrews right off the bat to me yesterday on Twitter by mentioning EC3, Spud, and Bram...conveniently "forgetting" that EC3 and Bram had what could be considered bigger roles on the show right off the bat and Spud had basically nothing 'til midway through his own run with the company. (I briefly entertained the notion of a civil discussion with that one, then saw that they'd tweeted Dixie "I love you", realized just what I was dealing with, then employed the mute setting.) Now, I'm not saying that everyone that defends TNA is like this, but it's become a pretty depressing and disturbing trend to see. I remember some of the messages that were being sent by people after Spike gave TNA the boot. Ludicrous to say the least.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 20:02:10 GMT -5
I don't think defending TNA is facepalm worthy. If someone likes it, then they like it. They don't really need to defend it - they should just talk about what they like rather than trying to argue with people who don't.
THAT's whats so face palm-y. You shake the face palm tree and this is the fruit that falls out of it. Just talk about what you like/don't like, but don't try to convince someone else they're wrong for liking/not liking it. That's craziness.
What I find to be just on the left side of preposterous, however, is the "wait and see" logic. Yeah, we've all waited many many times and what I saw wasn't worth waiting for so TNA has used up all their "wait and see" credits with me. WWE, too. When they start consistantly letting us "see" some good stuff, then I'll start giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Jan 12, 2015 20:06:00 GMT -5
I don't think we can really blame Bischoff and Hulk. Bischoff brought some positives to TNA such as production and stories that made sense (They weren't overly entertaining but they did make sense). TNA never really improved after he left or even before he arrived.
Hogan was there for the money but if used properly TNA could have made some cash off of him. I would have used him every week on TV and in his off time he'd be promoting the House Shows and PPV's before TNA even get there. TNA thought that simply having Hogan on their show without the marketing was going to result in taking them to the next level and it was never going to work that way.
Think what could have been if TNA took the money they used on Venis, Orlando, Nasty Boys etc and instead spent it on shouting from the roof tops "Hey, we have Flair, Hardy and HULK HOGAN on our TV show"
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Post by jimmyjames on Jan 13, 2015 0:21:08 GMT -5
IF TNA does something well, I will say it. IF they do something stupid and illogical, I'll criticize it. I think that's how most on here are.
In regards to TNA, no way did they have the resources to legitimately take on WWE. That's been a big part of their problem. They've deluded themselves into thinking this is the early to mid '90s and they're in the same position to take on WWE as the #1 promotion, like WCW did, instead of setting their sights on being a good solid stable #2 promotion and doing the things necessary for that.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 13, 2015 0:39:20 GMT -5
Building on that, the problem with that is unlike WCW, the gulf between #1 and #2 in the US is a massive chasm. The closest TNA ever came to beating WWE in ratings in the US was when Impact did a couple of decimal points higher than WWECW.
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Urethra Franklin
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Jan 13, 2015 1:41:09 GMT -5
I think TNA's biggest problem over the course of its history has been its inability to establish a permanent identity.
"Well, we're not the WWE" is not an identity. If I'm a regular buyer of Tide and I've grown dissatisfied with my laundry as of late and want to try something different, I'm not going to start buying Gain because it claims to be the anti-Tide.
I fully recognize that we're talking about different eras, but consider ECW during the Monday Night Wars. ECW was a distant third when it came to profitability and brand recognition, but it carved out a niche for itself for almost a decade. Fans would turn to ECW because they knew what they were getting. It had an identity. ECW was where you turned for a more violent and edgier product being offered by WWE and WCW. Even if you didn't watch ECW, you knew what it stood for.
Times are very different now than what they were during the heyday of the Monday Night Wars when you had three companies with national TV deals and Bill Goldberg appearing on the cover of Entertainment Weekly. Still, one principle remains the same and that's establishing an identity. TNA is never going to compete with WWE, but in establishing an identity, TNA can try to stake a permanent foothold in the wrestling landscape. Right now, their position seems tenuous at very best.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 13, 2015 2:04:02 GMT -5
And that's the sad thing. They could've built an entire identity off of the X-Division like they did when the company was really starting to get momentum. Yeah, some of it was spot monkey-ish, but then you had some phenomenal matches, usually involving AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, and Samoa Joe. Hell, that's what got me interested in TNA in the first place.
It's the same deal with the Knockouts Division. TNA had a chance to be real pioneers in this category for mainstream American wrestling. A SHIMMER with the international exposure of a major cable TV network. Instead they flushed that idea right down the toilet until it became even worse than the WWE Divas' division.
TNA is the company of so many missed opportunities to stick out in order to be a poor man's WWE. It's so disappointing that they never embraced what they were good at instead of going in hard with their inferiority complex.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 13, 2015 6:05:25 GMT -5
Not as much as faceplam worthy as it is futile. For every step forward, it's 5 steps. As someone who was a former diehard WCW fanboy, I know it all too well. Even when the cold reality of things Inoki slapping you across the face, admitting it is seen as disloyal.
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Post by Wolfman Rose on Jan 13, 2015 8:15:46 GMT -5
For me, it's the delusion you see in die-hard defenders, especially when Dixie comes up. They'll go on and on about how Vince is a terrible human being/Satan incarnate and brush off the litany of reports about Dixie's (alleged) shitty behaviour towards employees, while simultaneously ignoring any good WWE does.
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Jan 13, 2015 9:48:17 GMT -5
For me, it's the delusion you see in die-hard defenders, especially when Dixie comes up. They'll go on and on about how Vince is a terrible human being/Satan incarnate and brush off the litany of reports about Dixie's (alleged) shitty behaviour towards employees, while simultaneously ignoring any good WWE does. Dixie promising Sorenson a job for life and then going back on her word a little over a year later has to be one of the scummiest moves from an owner of a wrestling company. Say what you will about Vince but the dude cares about the talent more than Dixie does. Droz broke his neck in a WWE ring in 1999 and the WWE has looked after him and supported him for 16 years I believe. Sorenson broke his neck and was kicked out the door by Dixie and co as soon as he had recovered.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Jan 13, 2015 10:06:58 GMT -5
For me, it's the argument "Yeah TNA is bad, but it's better than the WWE." No, it's just a different kind of bad. WWE Raw is friggin' boring, faces are made to look like doofuses, and they love to shove their shiny new toys (WWE Network, WWE Movies, Tout) down our throats. TNA, however, just never learns from their mistakes. Heel factions, Vince Russo, and a woman at top who seem ignorant about the real problems her company faces. Yes, Vince is old and his sense of humor is juvenile, but he knows how to put on the product. Dixie is just so clueless. I kinda look at the Raw Threads as the people on this board trying to get through three hours of product that can range from great (rarely) to abyssal (also rarely). Usually it's in the middle ground though. The three hours just makes it a chore to sit through. TNA Impact threads have taken on an aura of MSTie type riff sessions that I love because Impact feels like WCW 2000 at times.
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 13, 2015 14:01:27 GMT -5
When you have the certain diehard fans who spin the BS like Dixie does is what makes it hard to take TNA seriously sometimes. You went from the highest of highs saying TNA is going to beat WWE, to well 275,000 people watched IMPACT on destination america that's great. We can nitpick raw to death because of the length and absurd characters but for the most part u know what to expect. With TNA it's just why don't you learn from your mistakes. I thought a move to another network would get their act together but as of right now it's still a massive wreck waiting to happen again.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Jan 13, 2015 14:27:00 GMT -5
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
TNA drives me crazy because they try to be an alternative to the WWE but in their efforts to do so they become a crappy version of the WWE. They think they are Pepsi to the WWE's Coke but the reality is that they are Sams Choice Cola that's piss warm from sitting in the sun.
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Post by Bram wants to 'urt you on Jan 14, 2015 16:43:39 GMT -5
Because every single good thing that TNA does, they manage, eventually, without exception to make a mess of. If you think back to anything that you enjoyed in TNA, think back harder, and you'll be able to pinpoint the moment they turned it from a crock of gold into a crock of crap.
That's why defending them can be such a fruitless experience, because any reasoned, well thought out argument for what makes them great can simply be countered with "yeah, for now, but give them time..."
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