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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Jan 21, 2015 11:57:02 GMT -5
Why can't we just all get along and band together to fight the real problem? The real problem being that Brett Favre isn't being talked about. This post confirms that he's coming back next year.
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BRV
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Post by BRV on Jan 21, 2015 12:10:18 GMT -5
If that last point is true, that suggests that it is a regular practice by the Patriots. I don't imagine that they only did it for games against the Colts. I imagine that they did it for EVERY game. This is just the first one that they got in trouble for. If that is true, there have been a number of close games in the last few seasons that are now far more suspect for the Patriots than this last game. So we're back to playing the "what-if" game, the same "what-if" game we played with Spygate, when that really amounted to a whole lot of nothing. People so easily forget that Matt Walsh claimed to have dozens upon dozens of tapes of opposing team's signals, yet he could only produce eight when the NFL came calling, and of those eight tapes from six games, the Patriots went 3-3. I'm of the mindset that you can cheat all you want, but it doesn't matter worth a lick unless you have the players on the field. Spygate produced a whole lot of nothing in terms of hard evidence that it benefited the Patriots. What benefited the Patriots the most was having the best coaching staff and on-field talent in the early 2000s. Maybe he felt a difference, maybe he didn't. I'm not Tom Brady (as much as I'd love to be). According to Pro Football Talk, the on-field officials, who handle thousands of footballs hundreds of times every single Sunday from September through January, didn't notice anything wrong. The exact quote from the PFT article is as follows: "the source explains that a pressure difference of one or two pounds would not be obvious".
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 21, 2015 12:37:07 GMT -5
If that last point is true, that suggests that it is a regular practice by the Patriots. I don't imagine that they only did it for games against the Colts. I imagine that they did it for EVERY game. This is just the first one that they got in trouble for. If that is true, there have been a number of close games in the last few seasons that are now far more suspect for the Patriots than this last game. So we're back to playing the "what-if" game, the same "what-if" game we played with Spygate, when that really amounted to a whole lot of nothing. People so easily forget that Matt Walsh claimed to have dozens upon dozens of tapes of opposing team's signals, yet he could only produce eight when the NFL came calling, and of those eight tapes from six games, the Patriots went 3-3. I'm of the mindset that you can cheat all you want, but it doesn't matter worth a lick unless you have the players on the field. Spygate produced a whole lot of nothing in terms of hard evidence that it benefited the Patriots. What benefited the Patriots the most was having the best coaching staff and on-field talent in the early 2000s. Yes, we are back to the "What if". The Patriots' reputation is shot and every team that lost a close one to them over the years have a justified right to wonder if they got screwed by them cheating or not. Additionally, this is now two different ways that they cheated that they were caught doing. They lost the right to the benefit of the doubt that those were the only two ways they cheated. If there are a few other ways that they cheat that they have not been caught on yet, that could be a big deal. Any one method of cheating might not affect the games too much by itself, but if it was one way of several then cheating might have gotten them a few wins. People who don't like the Patriots are going to suspect every game that they won for that reason. If you don't like it, take it up with your team. It's their fault that people feel that way. Maybe he felt a difference, maybe he didn't. I'm not Tom Brady (as much as I'd love to be). According to Pro Football Talk, the on-field officials, who handle thousands of footballs hundreds of times every single Sunday from September through January, didn't notice anything wrong. The exact quote from the PFT article is as follows: "the source explains that a pressure difference of one or two pounds would not be obvious". A linebacker and a safety could apparently feel the difference. That's all I need to say about that.
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jan 21, 2015 12:42:01 GMT -5
Two incidents over an eight-year period is a culture of cheating? If some of the things that were said on ESPN this morning are accurate then Patriots fans might want to dial back to not look foolish later (though this is more aimed at some of the more visceral responses from Patriots fans I have seen rather than your response). First, it is a known fact that the reason that the NFL smacked the Patriots and Belichick so hard for Spygate is that the Patriots were caught recording the signals illegally in the previous season, were warned not to do it again, and then did it at least two games into the next season. That means it was not an isolated incident by itself, but rather they got in trouble for being a repeat offender for breaking that rule. Second, it was stated this morning that the reason why the Colts noticed the deflated balls and the refs did not is because the Colts were on the lookout for it because they noticed that the balls that Mike Adams intercepted in their game against the Pats earlier this season were underinflated in that game. They obviously did not file a complaint at that time, but I don't think I would have either. Looking at how many people have a knee-jerk reaction of "Cry me a river, Colts! You just suck, you sore losers!", I would not have wanted to listen to that over what amounted to a meaningless regular season game. If that last point is true, that suggests that it is a regular practice by the Patriots. I don't imagine that they only did it for games against the Colts. I imagine that they did it for EVERY game. This is just the first one that they got in trouble for. If that is true, there have been a number of close games in the last few seasons that are now far more suspect for the Patriots than this last game. Additionally, Tom Brady's smug response on Monday to the accusation sounds even worse today. He handled those balls more than anyone else. There is no way that he could not have felt that those game balls were different from the other game balls he has played with through the years...unless they WEREN'T different. Either he is a smarmy asshole that knew damned good and well that they were cheating in that game or he was clueless because they cheated so often that he could not feel a difference. Both possibilities are pretty damning. I ask you, which scenario would you prefer? Butthead: Uuuhhhehehehe. He said he handled balls. Beavis: Hehehehe.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 21, 2015 12:57:08 GMT -5
I like the guy quick to call conspiracy about one league being fixed handwaves an incident of blatant cheating because his team did it. Talk about hypocrisy.
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suave
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Post by suave on Jan 21, 2015 12:57:50 GMT -5
Having the word " bribe" anywhere near Super Bowl has got to be Roger Goodell's worst nightmare. Also, Raiders fans must HATE the mid 2000s. We do Seconded.
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Post by bluemeii on Jan 21, 2015 13:05:17 GMT -5
Ugh.....
Honestly not even sure how to feel about this either way, but little Mike on Mike and Mike makes a good point. If it was a close game what would the conversation be about then concerning this. Clearly the Patriots cheating had no influence on the outcome of that particular game, no rational thinking fan would think otherwise. If the reports are to be believed about Mike Adams and him noticing it in an earlier game then you have to question if and how many times the Patriots have done this this year and possibly other years.
Yes this does bring the "what-ifs" into the equation when it comes to the Patriots, especially when you consider they got busted for cheating before. Who is to blame for this though. The fans? The NFL? Nope the Patriots themselves. So maybe the Pats fans should be venting at their team instead of wasting energy trying to defend them.
They made their bed let them sleep in it. This is going to be a topic of conversation for the next 2 weeks. I can't see the NFL laying a penalty down till after the super bowl. So yes...deflated ball jokes for the next 2 weeks.
Oh wait here's one.
(slight language warning)
By the way...I really think the NFL will be hoodie free next year. As much of a control freak as he is, I can't buy he knew nothing about this, especially as more info comes out about how it had been noticed before this year.
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Post by J Lee O'Brien on Jan 21, 2015 13:18:59 GMT -5
The main thing I personally want to know, if not already discussed.
The practice balls. Were they under-inflated as well?
Full disclosure, I hate the Patriots with a fiery passion and have for over 10 years. I cannot argue with their success, but this just makes them look bad or like they have no faith in their players in a way.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BRV on Jan 21, 2015 13:21:11 GMT -5
One of my longest standing unfounded conspiracy theories is that Bill Belichick was planning on retiring had the Patriots defeated the Giants in Super Bowl XLVI. The Patriots had just re-hired Josh McDaniels, the person whom most feel is the heir apparent whenever Belichick decides to hang up his tattered hoodie, and Belichick was oddly warm and gregarious with the media during the entire week leading up to the game, almost as if it was his mea culpa for decades of being such an incorrigible curmudgeon.
Again, unfounded and with no basis in reality, just what I felt was possibly the case going into the game. And you know what? I'm getting that feeling again.
I feel as though if the Patriots topple the Seahawks in Glendale in 11 days and Bill Belichick hoists his fourth Lombardi Trophy as a head coach, he might just say, "I'm 62 years old, I've been coaching in some capacity for 40 years, I've got more money than I know what to do with, I've watched my kids grow up, I've got a beautiful girlfriend sitting at home, I really don't need this s*** anymore," and ride off into the sunset.
He won't coach forever and he undoubtedly saw how retiring after a Super Bowl victory forever altered Bill Cowher's legacy, so maybe he feels that if he can go out on top, he can at least go out on his terms on top of his game, as opposed to hanging on years after his prime has come and gone, not unlike Don Shula (who, coincidentally enough, had to deal with his share of cheating allegations, but enough time has passed that he is ultimately still revered as one of the greatest coaches in league history).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 14:14:07 GMT -5
I personally am enjoying how slowly the news is coming out. As far as reactions, we've gone from "What a ridiculous rumor" to "OMG who cares everyone does it" in just a few days.
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Jan 21, 2015 14:18:29 GMT -5
Patriots fans: "I can't believe colts fans are complaining and saying this is why they lost!"
Every other NFL fan (including colts fans): "Colts would've lost either way, so why did the Patriots feel they had to cheat?"
Honestly I don't understand the Patriots fans in this thread.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BRV on Jan 21, 2015 14:23:34 GMT -5
Patriots fans: "I can't believe colts fans are complaining and saying this is why they lost!" Every other NFL fan (including colts fans): "Colts would've lost either way, so why did the Patriots feel they had to cheat?" Honestly I don't understand the Patriots fans in this thread. Presumably they cheated for the same reasons anyone cheats at anything: because they thought they could get away with it and because they thought it could give them an advantage. What drives me nuts is the fact that they may have done something so miniscule and irrelevant as tamper with the weight of a football. The slight benefits it gives you are not worth the headache from fans and media who decry it as an atrocity against the integrity of the game.
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Jan 21, 2015 14:39:46 GMT -5
Patriots fans: "I can't believe colts fans are complaining and saying this is why they lost!" Every other NFL fan (including colts fans): "Colts would've lost either way, so why did the Patriots feel they had to cheat?" Honestly I don't understand the Patriots fans in this thread. Presumably they cheated for the same reasons anyone cheats at anything: because they thought they could get away with it and because they thought it could give them an advantage. What drives me nuts is the fact that they may have done something so miniscule and irrelevant as tamper with the weight of a football. The slight benefits it gives you are not worth the headache from fans and media who decry it as an atrocity against the integrity of the game. I'm not asking why, I'm making the point that patriots fans, you included, have been claiming that Colts are saying the only reason they lost is cause they patriots cheated, when, from what I've seen, that isn't true. Here and elsewhere all I've read is everybody else, Colts fans included, saying the Patriots would've won either, not that they only won cause they cheated.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,882
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Post by BRV on Jan 21, 2015 14:47:09 GMT -5
I'm not asking why, I'm making the point that patriots fans, you included, have been claiming that Colts are saying the only reason they lost is cause they patriots cheated, when, from what I've seen, that isn't true. Here and elsewhere all I've read is everybody else, Colts fans included, saying the Patriots would've won either, not that they only won cause they cheated. I didn't say that the Colts were saying the reason the Patriots won were because of the deflated balls. I'm disputing the notion circulating on Twitter (and in some capacity, in this Forum) that underinflated footballs had anything whatsoever to do with the result of Sunday night's game. My exact words: Basically, allow Patriots cornerback Brandon Browner to sum it up:
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Jan 21, 2015 15:06:30 GMT -5
All this has done is make me wish the media didn't have such a boner over adding "gate" on to the end of everything that involves a conspiracy. Watergate was a long time ago.
Oh, and I hope the Seahawks roll the Pats
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Post by Cyno on Jan 21, 2015 15:13:21 GMT -5
I'm not asking why, I'm making the point that patriots fans, you included, have been claiming that Colts are saying the only reason they lost is cause they patriots cheated, when, from what I've seen, that isn't true. Here and elsewhere all I've read is everybody else, Colts fans included, saying the Patriots would've won either, not that they only won cause they cheated. I didn't say that the Colts were saying the reason the Patriots won were because of the deflated balls. I'm disputing the notion circulating on Twitter (and in some capacity, in this Forum) that underinflated footballs had anything whatsoever to do with the result of Sunday night's game. My exact words: Basically, allow Patriots cornerback Brandon Browner to sum it up:
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Jan 21, 2015 15:14:10 GMT -5
Okay, I was going to stay out of this, but again, no one is looking at the outcome of the game as an argument. That goes without saying that the Patriots would have won the game. But using a tactic to gain an advantage over an opponent who isn't aware of it is still cheating no matter the outcome.
If they went into the the game with this knowledge, THAT IS AN ADVANTAGE BEFORE THE FACT.
Let's say you and I have a jump rope competition. Now, I believe that it might be tough to beat you, so prior to the competition, I shorten the ropes to gain less give on the ropes so they go faster. I know about this and you do not. As a result, I can make the adjustments immediately out of the gate while you may notice at some point. Let's also say that you show up to the competition and you feel like absolute shit and tank it. I still can't use your performance as an excuse as to why I did what I did.
I'm only basing this on the one game, whether or not it happened in other games is to be decided, but clear tactical advantage is wrong no matter the circumstances of how the game played out.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 21, 2015 15:18:32 GMT -5
I'm not asking why, I'm making the point that patriots fans, you included, have been claiming that Colts are saying the only reason they lost is cause they patriots cheated, when, from what I've seen, that isn't true. Here and elsewhere all I've read is everybody else, Colts fans included, saying the Patriots would've won either, not that they only won cause they cheated. I didn't say that the Colts were saying the reason the Patriots won were because of the deflated balls. I'm disputing the notion circulating on Twitter (and in some capacity, in this Forum) that underinflated footballs had anything whatsoever to do with the result of Sunday night's game. My exact words: Basically, allow Patriots cornerback Brandon Browner to sum it up: Again, that is missing the damned point. They have been caught cheating multiple times now with allegations that they have done it other times too (though we can ignore the Ravens' complaints about deflated balls in the previous round because they are talking about kicking balls, which no one but the officials touch. If those balls were screwed up, the Patriots did not do it). The point is they are demonstrating that they have no integrity, which to many fans is a damned big deal. Granted, there are far more screwed up examples in sports (Penn St. being an extreme), but to let them off the hook because they could have been worse is ridiculous. I am pissed at them because this is the second time they have been caught cheating and the fourth different way in the last 8 years that they have been accused of cheating. I don't want cheaters to win, especially ones that seem to keep doing it. I don't care if they were talented and well coached enough to beat everyone without cheating. Cheaters should not win if integrity is supposed to mean anything.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 21, 2015 15:22:34 GMT -5
Oh, and I hope the Seahawks roll the Pats I think that's what's going to happen. Blount's not going to go insane against that defense, the Pats receivers will get no separation from the Seattle secondary, and Brady is going to be under a lot of pressure. Russell Wilson won't have another game like the NFC Championship, Marshawn Lynch will do what he does, and Seattle will win another Super Bowl while I get pissed because the Niners finished 8-8 and now have a coach I don't have much faith in.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 21, 2015 15:26:42 GMT -5
Oh, and I hope the Seahawks roll the Pats I think that's what's going to happen. Blount's not going to go insane against that defense, the Pats receivers will get no separation from the Seattle secondary, and Brady is going to be under a lot of pressure. Russell Wilson won't have another game like the NFC Championship, Marshawn Lynch will do what he does, and Seattle will win another Super Bowl while I get pissed because the Niners finished 8-8 and now have a coach I don't have much faith in. But that coach is a keeper! The Niners said so when he was the only guy they kept!
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