mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jan 30, 2015 17:25:50 GMT -5
Austin´s look was more marketable. Bryan looks like a unwashed hobo. Bryan would be doing a lot better in WWE, if he cut his hair and beard. At the time, Austin as a white male with a shaved head wasn't exactly a great marketing tactic. Austin stated his reasons for shaving his head, but given that he was from the south and had that redneck attitude, a lot of people considered Austin a skinhead early on. Plus, he wore plain black trunks or was otherwise in jeans. He was the exact opposite of what Vince McMahon would have pushed in terms of marketable. But Vince didn't have a choice. Now, if another wrestling company was pushing him against the wall? You better believe McMahon would do a better job of pushing Bryan.
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wcc2
AC Slater
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 30, 2015 17:28:35 GMT -5
That's another problem. This idea that one can only have one Wrestlemania moment. It's a mindset that needs to die, quickly. Launching a new star takes time. With Reigns, they are jumping the gun, and there's no need. Give him a year, and he'll grow into the role and improve. That's yet another problem. WWE have limited their options by making it seem that only Cena can stop Lesnar. No, it's not a backlash against "anyone", but rather a backlash against forced booking that goes against the organic support of the fans. Guys can have multiple Wrestlemania moments. Guys can even win the title in the main event more than once. Does it mean that beyond a shadow of a doubt, Bryan should beat BROCK LESNAR this year? I don't necessarily agree. They haven't limited their options at all. As I said, there is a ladder. Cena was near the top of that ladder, and Lesnar destroys him, so he's way up there, sitting on the roof. That's their ENTIRE INTENTION. If Brock was more equal with Cena, Brock doesn't look like the Beast. If not only Cena, but also Rollins, Ambrose, Bryan and Ziggler have competitive matches with Brock, he looks like no more an unstoppable beast than Randy Orton does. They have very deliberately made it seem that Brock is way beyond anyone else by having him destroy their previous biggest star. That's why there is so much buzz around how awesome he has been. I can't really argue on Reigns being ready because we'd go around in circles between me saying he is and you saying he isn't. But this is the first time I've seen a group of fans reject someone largely on that basis. At the end of the day, it comes down to the fact that this group of fans knows too much about the business, and doesn't like to think it is being told what to do and who to like. This group of fans has to feel like it standing up to the big bad corporate machine. But if Roman Reigns eliminated Batista and won at the end of the Rumble 2014, I highly doubt we would see as many threads proclaiming he isn't ready. It's not really to do with that, because really we as fans can't judge that. We have no idea. It's do to with the fact that he is obviously hand picked. But at the end of the day they have to go with guys that they think will look like stars to the largest amounts of people, and not be swayed by a fan base that will repeatedly get behind and then drop support for guys at the drop of a hat. They know what makes a star because they've made plenty and got it right more often than not. They've got to trust what they know rather than chopping and changing because a certain section doesn't like being told who to like. And it isn't even that they are being told, it's because the business has been too exposed and this section of fans can spot the patterns.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 17:35:36 GMT -5
"Every time you jerks pop more for Bryan than for Reigns, we're jobbing him to Fandango!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 17:40:39 GMT -5
Austin looked like a guy that fit the late 90s-early 2000s well. That look was popping then. Bryan? Given today's society in the US his look is far more presentable than someone like Reigns. Beards are the new thing. He's marketable enough. If they wanted him to update his look however, I suggest give him the late 2013 look. He's gotta keep the crazy beard and he's gotta keep the wild hair. That's him.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 30, 2015 17:41:23 GMT -5
I do see their point, he's nearing the end of his career, you don't give a guy who's nearly Cena's age Cenas spot as the franchise, you want to give it to one of the younger talents so you don't have to find the next franchise for a long while. I see Bryan as this generations Mick Foley, a Veteran who towards the tail end of his career finally gets a big WWE run and gets over as rover but is never the "face of the company". Bryan is 33.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jan 30, 2015 17:52:40 GMT -5
Austin´s look was more marketable. Bryan looks like a unwashed hobo. Bryan would be doing a lot better in WWE, if he cut his hair and beard. Outside a horrid Submission Wrestling shirt HEY! I own that shirt!
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 30, 2015 17:58:37 GMT -5
It's the logical storyline. The underdog challenger with massive fan support against the seemingly invincible monster champion.
If there's a ladder, Bryan is above Reigns.
Sorry, the "fans can't judge" argument was weak even when Reigns offered it.
Daniel Bryan has enormous support. They've got behind him, and haven't dropped it.
They don't know shit. Austin was going nowhere as the Ringmaster until he prompted a change. Rocky Maivia was doomed until they had to change that to cater to fan rejection. Cena was wearing short shorts until Stephanie just happened to hear him rapping. In all those cases, had they stubbornly persisted with their original plan, all three guys would have not become the stars they did.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 30, 2015 17:59:10 GMT -5
Here's what I don't get about this whole Bryan thing. If you watched SD last night the Bryan/Kane match was clearly the main event while Reigns/Show was the opener. So WWE apparently has no problem featuring Bryan as a TV main eventer but not as a truly top PPV draw.
Further, there's a big problem with branding someone the "face of the company." Namely this: People hate the company. People hate the management. The management are total heels. Branding someone the "face of the company" is something that makes fans hate that wrestler. That might be okay if he's a heel, but in Reigns' case he isn't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 18:00:40 GMT -5
Here's what I don't get about this whole Bryan thing. If you watched SD last night the Bryan/Kane match was clearly the main event while Reigns/Show was the opener. So WWE apparently has no problem featuring Bryan as a TV main eventer but not as a truly top PPV draw. Further, there's a big problem with branding someone the "face of the company." Namely this: People hate the company. People hate the management. The management are total heels. Branding someone the "face of the company" is something that makes fans hate that wrestler. That might be okay if he's a heel, but in Reigns' case he isn't. Do you personally feel they are moving to Bryan's idea of "just give me SmackDown and we'll make that the show my fans enjoy" then?
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 30, 2015 18:03:21 GMT -5
It is entirely possible. Since his return it seems like a lot of things have been SD focused. Someone else on here suggested a return to the brand split and it might have some merit actually. Let Reigns fight the Authority and all that nonsense on Raw, while Bryan has more serious wrestling on SD.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jan 30, 2015 18:11:34 GMT -5
Like I said in another thread, this situation with Bryan is just feeling more and more like Hogan in the AWA in 1983. I'm not a huge fan of Bryan and no he isn't my first choice to be the top guy but the fans have spoken and the WWE just needs to accept that and give him his run. Do you really want to be the Verne Gagne in this mess Vince? Do you really?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 18:16:58 GMT -5
Like people have stated...
Hogan became the guy at 31. Bret became the guy at 37. Austin became the guy at 34. Rock became the guy at 27. Triple H "became the guy Vince wanted to push as their main guy for a bit" at 33. Cena became the guy at 28.
Besides special circumstances, most guys become "the guy" in their 30s. By that point, they'll have matured enough, connected with the audience on a deeper level and they have it all down. Rock and Cena are special cases, extremely special cases mind you. Rock is a talent you only meet once every generation, he's special and hell he had to wait until Austin was out for that too. Cena on the other hand had to get it after the other 2 guys they tried to make their headliners were either too immature (Orton) or they just didn't have all the company was looking for (Batista). Cena had to be the first guy in the building and the last guy to leave AND be equipped with amazing mic skills, good wrestling skills, do whatever the company asked, be amazingly over AND have Wolverine healing to be "the guy". In order for someone to be "the guy" at a young age they have to be ridiculously gifted and they have to hit multiple areas. Reigns doesn't have that.
Daniel Bryan is 33. He is the right age.
That's it. It should be a no-brainer given this company's history but I guess not.
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Jan 30, 2015 18:23:10 GMT -5
Before the news came out this week that WWE was planning on doing Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler at WrestleMania 31, there was a feeling among many that officials would not give in like they did last year and Bryan wouldn't be getting pushed to the WrestleMania main event again. Translation: We're not giving Bryan the push because it worked and made us money. *Sits down on RAW ramp* I got a few things to get off my chest about this. Ladies and gentlemen, there are many issues with WWE right now but this is THE problem with them. They have such an ego about themselves and have their heads so far up their own crap that they don't know how to work a common business idea that's giving what paying customers what they want. In one sentence if someone asked why is WWE not as sucessful as before, I'd tell them "Because WWE is so full of themselves that they don't know how to socialize with anything or anyone else." It really feels like WWE treats it's WWE Universe very second rate as if fans don't know any better like they don't know what they want. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that every smark out their needs to be listen to or knows what's best for business, but when there's a MAJOR majority of people who like a guy, then they should push him. It's plan as day that people are willing to pay money to see guys like Bryan and Ziggler but WWE won't do it because I guess They don't want to make a profit, they don't care about their audience, and quite frankly why should we as fans? A business that says no to making money is such an oxymoron it's comical. If this was the 90s. We would talk about why on Earth Stone Cold Steve Austin is stuck in the midcard? And why is Kurrgan headlining Wreslemania 14? It really makes me wonder how much WWE will panic when people like John Cena or Randy Orton are gone. Because at this moment I really don't think they know what to do. They will try to keep pushing their guys and we will keep booing them. The kids that love Cena are going to grow up and what will the next generation have? Nothing because every person that's given the brass ring is someone the people don't want to see. It's one thing to tell us that person X is THE GUY, but it's another when fans clearly want person Y to be the guy and we are told no. Honestly if I knew this talk was going on and I was Bryan or Ziggler, why would I bother staying around? Why stay if my hard work is going to get me so far because of things beyond my power? Like suddenly I don't blame Punk for leaving the way he did. If people do come back, it's because they end up becoming bigger then the WWE and they know this. This is why they likely pay up the ass to have people like The Rock, Batista, and Brock Lesner on their shows. In fact I'm expecting for Brock the day before mania to say "Nah I'm not losing the belt to Roman" and he goes home with the belt. He did it with New Japan, why would he not do it here? He'll go back to UFC then once that fades out, he'll go back to WWE and they will give him MORE money, simply because WWE needs The Rock, and Brock Lesner more then they need WWE. I can see down the line, some big time famous person wanting to try out the WWE ring and end up getting a world title shot in a matter of months, because WWE NEEDS names bigger then them to make money now. Hell if Punk's UFC thing ends up being a bust, WWE will pay Punk to come back and will give him a mania main event. This only proves his point in his shoot that people work hard in the company and then people outside like The Rock or Lesner can just walk in and get a main event on the biggest stage. Instead of having inside people that people love like Bryan and Ziggler, they want to have big movie stars or athletes come in and be the star of the show. This is why they have guess hosts, this is why they have a celebrity wing in the HOF. How long until some celebrity wants to be in the WWE and they get a world title shot within months? Suddenly it starts to sound like... well.... Honestly and this might sound morbid as hell but the best thing that can happen to WWE right now is for Vince to kick the bucket. HHH taking over might be the very last hope WWE has, and that all depends on if he's going to do things his way (and that could be good if he's behind the booking on NXT) or he wants to keep the tradition the way Vince did things. I makes me wonder if Paul freaks out constantly because of the chance Vince ends up taking the company down to the grave with him. Vince needs to step down but he won't because he doesn't know good business from bad business anymore. I made a joke the other day about how WWE is mad at Bryan for getting injured because they see it as him dropping the crown when it was handed to him and now they are trying to end his career by trying to get him hurt again. Look at all the suicide dives and diving headbutts, and neck spots he's been doing since his return. Now I really start to wonder the more I think about it. All the crazy as hell sports Ziggler takes. Hell look at the Shield. Ambrose is BY FAR the most over guy in that stable, but as soon as they split what happened every night? He got the crap beat out of him week in and week out. Because some how there's such thing as a superstar becomes too big and that's bad for business somehow. Don't make him to big of a star, people might start wanting to pay for him. It's funny how The Authority's catch phrase is "What's Best For Business" when really it's "What's Best For bUSiness." Not the fans, US as in the company. Sorry if I do seem very ranty about this but it's so damn frustrating and depressing of how WWE day and and day out is handed money if they did the most common sense thing yet they say no to money. I don't know a single business or company that's lived long when saying no to easy money was the business structure. I'm a fan of WWE and I want them to be successful and to be back to the juggernaut it once was, but it's things like this where I don't think it's every going to be successful again and that I need to lower my exceptions from WWE. So keep pushing guys we don't want to see Vince. Don't act shocked when we'll keep booing them. Honestly when Roman won the rumble, I'm shocked that Philly did not start throwing trash in the ring.
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Post by Deadman Inc on Jan 30, 2015 18:23:51 GMT -5
It is entirely possible. Since his return it seems like a lot of things have been SD focused. Someone else on here suggested a return to the brand split and it might have some merit actually. Let Reigns fight the Authority and all that nonsense on Raw, while Bryan has more serious wrestling on SD. The problem is that it is the B-Show, and it always will be. Whoever is most heavily featured on Raw will always be the top guy. While I admire Daniel's drive to try to pull Smackdown up, I don't think the Universe can topple Raw for Smackdown, especially since even the casual audience knows the more important show is Raw.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 18:30:12 GMT -5
Austin, Rock, Shawn and Bret were all pushed as "the" guy at different time periods, but always only 1 at a time, hell when Austin came back and The Rock was the top guy they turned Austin heel to avoid having 2 faces of the company. As I said earlier Bryan basically is Foley, will never be the top guy but still over as hell and had a short title run because of it. Rollins basically is Triple H, the top active full time heel and will work with Reigns in the future alot I imagine. Ambrose will also get one hell of a push too, not sure what his role will be though, I think he's plan B by the looks of it, I mean Ambrose has been protected as hell recently and main evented a ppv, you can tell by his promos and all the skits they've had him doing that they see a bright future in him Ziggler quite frankly whilst talented isn't exactly main event material. He's a solid upper midcarder though, which isn't a bad position to be in. WWE has always been about 1 top babyface and that makes sense with WWE booking, traditionally WWE have gone for a babyface champion who overcomes the odds, so it makes sense to have as many of the over guys be heels as possible so the face champ has people to work with. Since Sammartino, Backlund, Hogan, Bret, Shawn, The Rock, Stone Cold, John Cena....... Yep, makes a lot of sense. Bryan is the Foley, Rollins is the HHH, Cena is Austin, Reigns is The Rock, Wyatt is The Undertaker and Ambrose...maybe he's Kurt Angle. Maybe he's Kane. Ziggler is probably early 2000 Jericho in all of this. I'd say Ambrose is Austin. Cena is Hogan if he never jumped to WCW. But yeah agree with you on Ziggler
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Post by mrtuesday on Jan 30, 2015 18:37:03 GMT -5
Like I said in another thread, this situation with Bryan is just feeling more and more like Hogan in the AWA in 1983. I'm not a huge fan of Bryan and no he isn't my first choice to be the top guy but the fans have spoken and the WWE just needs to accept that and give him his run. Do you really want to be the Verne Gagne in this mess Vince? Do you really? There's a difference here. When Hogan went to WWF, the AWA fans followed him. If Bryan were to go to TNA, or ROH, or Lucha Underground, would the WWE fans follow him? No. These are the same fans that go WWE's social media and ask WWE to bring back guys like Kurt Angle and the Hardys. They think those guys quit wrestling and aren't active. Any wrestling outside of WWE either doesn't exist or not worth the time. Vince holds all the cards. He can push a talent not ready to the moon, he can hold a talent that the people can't get enough of back because he can.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 30, 2015 18:38:46 GMT -5
Open disdain will work well I'm sure.
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Post by thetower52 on Jan 30, 2015 19:21:02 GMT -5
Outside a horrid Submission Wrestling shirt HEY! I own that shirt! I'm wearing that shirt right now
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 19:29:47 GMT -5
"The voice of the WWE Universe" is Vince, in that he tells us what we want and what he like.
He speaks for the Universe so they don't have to!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 19:33:38 GMT -5
ahahahahahhaaha this f***in' company
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