r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
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Post by r. on Mar 4, 2015 19:32:09 GMT -5
Well put together, and Loved the Bryan and Reigns bit, but at the end of the day, I find it to be petty hyperbole I'm sure wcw fans said the very same thing.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
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Post by fw91 on Mar 4, 2015 19:35:28 GMT -5
Well put together, and Loved the Bryan and Reigns bit, but at the end of the day, I find it to be petty hyperbole I'm sure wcw fans said the very same thing. apples and oranges dude. theres a difference between "No direction, inmates running the asylum, and the front office not wanting to keep the product around." and "Not booking to the fans preference."
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Post by molson5 on Mar 4, 2015 19:37:01 GMT -5
I enjoy the silly comedy segments much more than the 10,000th Usos v. Miz and Mizdow match.
Is that really the biggest problem with the WWE today? That they do stupid comedy sometimes? I think the video missed the mark entirely.
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Post by molson5 on Mar 4, 2015 19:38:43 GMT -5
I'm sure wcw fans said the very same thing. apples and oranges dude. theres a difference between "No direction, inmates running the asylum, and the front office not wanting to keep the product around." and "Not booking to the fans preference." Ya, today, "not making sense" generally means "pushing the wrong guy". In WCW 1999-2000, "not making sense" would mean main event run-ins and heel turns that were forgotten by the next show. People who weren't even in a match often somehow winning the match. The World Title being vacated 8 times in about 2 years. About 30 World title changes in 3 years. There's maybe the occasional minor hiccup, but the WWE's shows generally stay on the rails. I'd actually prefer if they took more chances and failed more often. For me, a poorly done but ambitious angle is more entertaining than the methodical, safe, seen-it all-before WWE style. Though I also understand that their main target audience is probably younger than me and maybe hasn't seen-it-all-before yet.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
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Post by Woo on Mar 4, 2015 19:42:10 GMT -5
I'm sure wcw fans said the very same thing. apples and oranges dude. theres a difference between "No direction, inmates running the asylum, and the front office not wanting to keep the product around." and "Not booking to the fans preference." No joke, I thought the first one you mentioned was about the WWE at first. They also have no direction, but sadly in their case the asylum guards are more insane than the inmates.
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Post by molson5 on Mar 4, 2015 19:45:43 GMT -5
apples and oranges dude. theres a difference between "No direction, inmates running the asylum, and the front office not wanting to keep the product around." and "Not booking to the fans preference." No joke, I thought the first one you mentioned was about the WWE at first. They also have no direction, but sadly in their case the asylum guards are more insane than the inmates. The WWE has direction, most of this year's Wrestlemania Card has been in place for months and months. If this was late-era WCW we'd still have two or three more World Title changes between now and Mania. And the card would be completely different between now and when the show actually happens. And then most of the heel turns and swerves at Mania (and there would be plenty) would not be acknowledged at the next TV show. And the World champion would be stripped of his title for unclear reasons.
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r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,456
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Post by r. on Mar 4, 2015 19:47:10 GMT -5
I'm sure wcw fans said the very same thing. apples and oranges dude. theres a difference between "No direction, inmates running the asylum, and the front office not wanting to keep the product around." and " Not booking to the fans preference." Booking to make fans happy is sort of what the entirety of wrestling is about.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
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Post by Woo on Mar 4, 2015 19:51:17 GMT -5
No joke, I thought the first one you mentioned was about the WWE at first. They also have no direction, but sadly in their case the asylum guards are more insane than the inmates. The WWE has direction, most of this year's Wrestlemania Card has been in place for months and months. If this was late-era WCW we'd still have two or three more World Title changes between now and Mania. And the card would be completely different between now and when the show actually happens. And then most of the heel turns and swerves at Mania (and there would be plenty) would not be acknowledged at the next TV show. And the World champion would be stripped of his title for unclear reasons. Roman-Brock and HHH-Sting I'll give you. The rest? Decided within in the last two. Why else would they not have protected Bray all year? If this is their long term vision for how the Orton/Rollins feud should have progressed then they need serious help.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 38,913
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Post by fw91 on Mar 4, 2015 20:05:23 GMT -5
apples and oranges dude. theres a difference between "No direction, inmates running the asylum, and the front office not wanting to keep the product around." and " Not booking to the fans preference." Booking to make fans happy is sort of what the entirety of wrestling is about. in a perfect world yes. but to vinny mac, its all about the mon-ay! He'll do whatever he wants until it makes a dent in the income. WWE has never been in danger of shutting down since the early MNW days.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
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Post by kidglov3s on Mar 4, 2015 20:24:00 GMT -5
I enjoy the silly comedy segments much more than the 10,000th Usos v. Miz and Mizdow match. Is that really the biggest problem with the WWE today? That they do stupid comedy sometimes? I think the video missed the mark entirely. A clip that skimmed the inanities of TNT would have more useless noxious garbage, bad comedy has always been a quaint charming staple of wwf, wwe.
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kevin
El Dandy
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Post by kevin on Mar 4, 2015 20:35:36 GMT -5
apples and oranges dude. theres a difference between "No direction, inmates running the asylum, and the front office not wanting to keep the product around." and " Not booking to the fans preference." Booking to make fans happy is sort of what the entirety of wrestling is about. Far to many here think booking to what they personally want is the same as booking to what the fans want. They have let an irrational hatred of the WWE blind then to reason. This talk of being like late WCW is proff of that. 1995 is as bad as WWE ever got it had horrible angles terrible main events it was so much worse than current day WWE that its like night and day. 1995 WWE was far better than 2000-2001 WCW. Not even TNA at its worst has approached how bad WCW was then. The comparisons to WCW are insane.
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Post by xCompackx on Mar 4, 2015 20:38:56 GMT -5
While I don't at all think that WWE is in the same spot as WCW, that was a pretty convincing trailer.
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r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
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Post by r. on Mar 4, 2015 20:58:48 GMT -5
Booking to make fans happy is sort of what the entirety of wrestling is about. Far to many here think booking to what they personally want is the same as booking to what the fans want. They have let an irrational hatred of the WWE blind then to reason. This talk of being like late WCW is proff of that. 1995 is as bad as WWE ever got it had horrible angles terrible main events it was so much worse than current day WWE that its like night and day. 1995 WWE was far better than 2000-2001 WCW. Not even TNA at its worst has approached how bad WCW was then. The comparisons to WCW are insane. So WCW beat out: Necrophila, On screen murder of a senior citizen, repeated mocking of bels palsy and exploiting the death of a wrestler? Because wwe did all those things. You may wanna take the [adam]rose colored glasses off for a moment because wwe has not only done sleezy stuff but used to do it to the point of losing sponsers. It is much cleaner now, for sure but it is still rife with the same mistakes WCW made. Wrestling 101 says: You can piss off fans, Irritate them even get them to near riots but if at the end of the day you can give them [x wrestler they love] standing tall, all is forgiven. Maybe I'm by myself but I don't think it's such a taboo that if the fans cheer for a guy at every event he should be given a run and be allowed to pick it back up should he get injured.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 4, 2015 21:15:13 GMT -5
Just to be perfectly clear: no, I don't think anybody watching here thinks WWE's about to go out of business.
Also to be clear: no, WWE is not going to go down the way WCW did. From a business standpoint, we all know that the AOL/Time Warner merger is what did WCW in, but from a creative standpoint we also know that a huge part of the problem for them was the "too many cooks" (cue Smarf) issues that have dogged TNA over the years, as well. WCW had Bischoff in charge for awhile, but Eric clearly wasn't in full control all of the time the way Vince is. Even when Vince is at his worst, him being the clear guy in control means that WWE will, at the very least, have a hand shaping it, even if that shape is awful. WCW didn't even really have that for awhile, it was just utter chaos deteriorating until the final bridge was crossed in 2000. By 2001, when they were trying to fix things, it was just too late. Having that big boss in charge means there's at least a rhyme or reason to things, again, even if the product itself is still garbage.
Now, that all being said: if WWE was booking itself then the way it's booking itself now, I don't think it would have lasted. WWE has lost a ton of its audience since 2002 or so, it has alienated untold millions of wrestling fans over the years (good point made before: before WWE dominated the scene, many, many, MANY more people watched wrestling every week than do now), but it can do all of that because it's the only big game in the United States.
I know it's cliche to say "Vince needs competition to get the show good again", but there's certainly some truth to it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 21:23:23 GMT -5
Until WWE puts the title on a celebrity non-wrestler non-athlete, effectively making everything the company stands for completely worthless, they'll be here for a looooooooong time.
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Post by Kayfabe FAN don't want none on Mar 4, 2015 21:24:02 GMT -5
LMAO at Dean's part Dean: So bad, and none of it made any sense. *TV blows up in Ambrose's face*
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StuntGranny®
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Not Actually a Granny
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Post by StuntGranny® on Mar 4, 2015 21:35:23 GMT -5
I would love it if this came to pass.
Awesome video.
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Post by molson5 on Mar 4, 2015 21:50:50 GMT -5
The WWE has direction, most of this year's Wrestlemania Card has been in place for months and months. If this was late-era WCW we'd still have two or three more World Title changes between now and Mania. And the card would be completely different between now and when the show actually happens. And then most of the heel turns and swerves at Mania (and there would be plenty) would not be acknowledged at the next TV show. And the World champion would be stripped of his title for unclear reasons. Roman-Brock and HHH-Sting I'll give you. The rest? Decided within in the last two. Why else would they not have protected Bray all year? If this is their long term vision for how the Orton/Rollins feud should have progressed then they need serious help. I don't think Wyatt's lost on TV or PPV, aside from the Tribute to the Troops show, since he's gone out on his own. He lost some 6-mans in September, but I can't find a one-on-one pinfall loss since Battleground in June against Christ Jericho. I don't know when exactly the WWE knew Undertaker was healthy enough to work this year, but it's clear that Wyatt has been the plan for a while. There does seems to have been some change-up on Orton after he came back from the movie, they delayed his return for a few weeks. I wouldn't say the angle is good yet, but clearly Orton/Rollins has been the plan for a while - they started bickering and attacking each other in October. It looks like they did change Bryan/Sheamus and put together this I-C ladder match. But I'd say that's an improvement, at least. The difference in planning between this and late WCW is night and day. I'd actually prefer something in the middle. Some chaos and unpredictability so things just aren't on stale auto-pilot for the months leading into Mania
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gr1990
Don Corleone
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Post by gr1990 on Mar 4, 2015 22:28:56 GMT -5
As sad as it would be to see the company that made me and millions of others into a wrestling fan go down the tubes, and as unlikely as it is to happen unless things get far worse financially, I honestly would quite like WWE to either die or hit serious trouble to serve them right for their own myopia. I really would only miss NXT now. Plus it'd be interesting to see how the business picked itself up and what the landscape would look like. Surely there's too many wrestling fans in the world for nobody to see a gap in the market and step into the breach, hopefully someone who listens to said fans instead of spiting them to court an imagined mainstream audience that continues to regard them with apathy or ridicule. It'll never happen, but it'd be interesting, and a blessed relief from what we're suffering through at the moment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 22:29:05 GMT -5
That long post about wrestling being an old time act that has struggled into this century concerns me with it's likely accuracy. I love wrestling and have done all of my 29 years and 11 months on earth. I hope any kids I'm unfortunate enough to have some day have wrestling to watch.
The convincing idea that WWE is the last major base for wrestling and, realistically it could go any time depresses me. It would leave a huge hole in my life.
Heh, huge hole.
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