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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Mar 8, 2015 12:18:37 GMT -5
June 17, 1994 is one of the best editing jobs on a film I've ever seen. That's my favorite, followed by Hillsborough and The Two Escobars. The 6th Man was a good one as well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 12:43:43 GMT -5
The Soviet one was amazing. Really humanizes people who everyone thought were villains. I think everyone through the 50s-80's forgot that the Soviet Union was comprised of people who did not necessarily like the regime they were in. Worst one was the Gretzky one. It should have been about his time in LA, and how he made hockey popular, not about his final days in Edmonton. TSN (Canada's ESPN) did a similar documentary and it did terribly ratings wise too. Basing a documentary on such a small city is just bound to fail ratings wise. The documentary was great for Oilers fans, but on one else So documentaries about sports teams in Green Bay, Buffalo, Cleveland, Hartford, Salt Lake City, Raleigh, etc are bound to fail because Edmonton is a bigger city then those cities both Metero and Urban population. Hell based on urban population alone Edmonton is the 33rd biggest city in North America and oh it's the fastest growing city in North America by far. They did focus quite a bit on how Gretzky made hockey popular in LA and the impact of the trade is the reason why California currently has three hockey teams, a couple of serious good Californian born prospects, and it's current domination in the league. Plus I disagree, the documentary showed the beginning of the end of parity in the league where soon all the big market teams would dominate the league for the next 16 years until the Salary Cap Era fixed that. It was examining the chain reaction of the greatest player in the league, playing in the best team in the league that happens to be the second smallest market in the league, leaving to the second biggest market in the league and second worst team in the league, setting up a chain reaction of the world's best players leaving their small market teams that couldn't afford their services anymore to big market teams (no matter how much of a non traditional hockey market it is) while small but traditional hockey markets fold and bigger but non traditional markets enter the league. They kind of pointed that if Gretzky never was traded in the league, Edmonton would probably won 4 or 5 more Stanley Cups and things would probably remain the same in the league with Winnipeg, Hartford, and Quebec may still be in the league while their may not be any hockey in Calfornia or any other Sun Belt teams. Oh and of course it was going to do terrible ratings. It's hockey on ESPN. Hockey is the least popular major league sport in the States and ESPN does not give a shit about hockey at all. Hell there's only three hockey documentaries on 30 for 30. Plus I doubt putting emphasis on Gretzky making hockey more popular in California would of created bigger ratings. There's more Oilers fans then LA Kings fans.
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BRV
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Post by BRV on Mar 8, 2015 12:54:11 GMT -5
The easier task is figuring out which 30 for 30 documentaries I didn't like. But if I have to pick my favorites, three come to mind:
- June 17, 1994: It's one of the most gripping and unique documentaries I've ever seen. There's no talking heads, no narration, it's just everything being presented to you in the same hectic and chaotic form as it was on that day 21 years ago. It's flawlessly put together.
- Hillsborough: I consider this the "Schindler's List" of the 30 for 30 documentaries, because it's so impossibly good but it's also so gutwrenching and heartbreaking that you can only watch it once or twice. I knew very little of the incident and its aftermath going into the documentary's airing last year, so I was enthralled while watching it. But, as I said, it's so emotionally devastating that you can only watch it so many times. It's not the kind of documentary you pop on when you've got time to burn or you need background white noise.
- Pony Excess: I think it's better than The U or The U Part II because it doesn't sugarcoat anything or put on rose-colored glasses and tell us how awesome everything was. It doesn't ask the Southern Methodist players or coaches to tell the audience how badass they were or how cool they were. It's gritty and honest and does not pull a single punch.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 13:25:43 GMT -5
My sister got me hooked on these things, and neither one of us like sports like that.
But no love for the Bad Boys one about the Detroit Pistons? I like that one just because I liked their team...
That and my parents knew Joe Dumars back in the day.
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Post by StormanReigns on Mar 8, 2015 13:35:28 GMT -5
The Soviet one was amazing. Really humanizes people who everyone thought were villains. I think everyone through the 50s-80's forgot that the Soviet Union was comprised of people who did not necessarily like the regime they were in. Worst one was the Gretzky one. It should have been about his time in LA, and how he made hockey popular, not about his final days in Edmonton. TSN (Canada's ESPN) did a similar documentary and it did terribly ratings wise too. Basing a documentary on such a small city is just bound to fail ratings wise. The documentary was great for Oilers fans, but on one else So documentaries about sports teams in Green Bay, Buffalo, Cleveland, Hartford, Salt Lake City, Raleigh, etc are bound to fail because Edmonton is a bigger city then those cities both Metero and Urban population. Hell based on urban population alone Edmonton is the 33rd biggest city in North America and oh it's the fastest growing city in North America by far. They did focus quite a bit on how Gretzky made hockey popular in LA and the impact of the trade is the reason why California currently has three hockey teams, a couple of serious good Californian born prospects, and it's current domination in the league. Plus I disagree, the documentary showed the beginning of the end of parity in the league where soon all the big market teams would dominate the league for the next 16 years until the Salary Cap Era fixed that. It was examining the chain reaction of the greatest player in the league, playing in the best team in the league that happens to be the second smallest market in the league, leaving to the second biggest market in the league and second worst team in the league, setting up a chain reaction of the world's best players leaving their small market teams that couldn't afford their services anymore to big market teams (no matter how much of a non traditional hockey market it is) while small but traditional hockey markets fold and bigger but non traditional markets enter the league. They kind of pointed that if Gretzky never was traded in the league, Edmonton would probably won 4 or 5 more Stanley Cups and things would probably remain the same in the league with Winnipeg, Hartford, and Quebec may still be in the league while their may not be any hockey in Calfornia or any other Sun Belt teams. Oh and of course it was going to do terrible ratings. It's hockey on ESPN. Hockey is the least popular major league sport in the States and ESPN does not give a shit about hockey at all. Hell there's only three hockey documentaries on 30 for 30. Plus I doubt putting emphasis on Gretzky making hockey more popular in California would of created bigger ratings. There's more Oilers fans then LA Kings fans. It did terrible in Canada too. If he played for the Whalers, it would have gotten small ratings too.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Mar 8, 2015 13:55:50 GMT -5
- Pony Excess: I think it's better than The U or The U Part II because it doesn't sugarcoat anything or put on rose-colored glasses and tell us how awesome everything was. It doesn't ask the Southern Methodist players or coaches to tell the audience how badass they were or how cool they were. It's gritty and honest and does not pull a single punch. Yeah, only Michael Irvin was willing to admit they got backlash, because they were bad boys. Everybody else had excuses, but Irvin flat out said "We were bad boys." Freaking Michael Irvin took responsibility for the backlash they got, and didn't try to blame anyone else or say there was a conspiracy. Also in The U, they take shots at Butch Davis, and how it wasn't Miami football anymore, but they also turn around and brag about accomplishments of his teams.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 14:11:42 GMT -5
So documentaries about sports teams in Green Bay, Buffalo, Cleveland, Hartford, Salt Lake City, Raleigh, etc are bound to fail because Edmonton is a bigger city then those cities both Metero and Urban population. Hell based on urban population alone Edmonton is the 33rd biggest city in North America and oh it's the fastest growing city in North America by far. They did focus quite a bit on how Gretzky made hockey popular in LA and the impact of the trade is the reason why California currently has three hockey teams, a couple of serious good Californian born prospects, and it's current domination in the league. Plus I disagree, the documentary showed the beginning of the end of parity in the league where soon all the big market teams would dominate the league for the next 16 years until the Salary Cap Era fixed that. It was examining the chain reaction of the greatest player in the league, playing in the best team in the league that happens to be the second smallest market in the league, leaving to the second biggest market in the league and second worst team in the league, setting up a chain reaction of the world's best players leaving their small market teams that couldn't afford their services anymore to big market teams (no matter how much of a non traditional hockey market it is) while small but traditional hockey markets fold and bigger but non traditional markets enter the league. They kind of pointed that if Gretzky never was traded in the league, Edmonton would probably won 4 or 5 more Stanley Cups and things would probably remain the same in the league with Winnipeg, Hartford, and Quebec may still be in the league while their may not be any hockey in Calfornia or any other Sun Belt teams. Oh and of course it was going to do terrible ratings. It's hockey on ESPN. Hockey is the least popular major league sport in the States and ESPN does not give a shit about hockey at all. Hell there's only three hockey documentaries on 30 for 30. Plus I doubt putting emphasis on Gretzky making hockey more popular in California would of created bigger ratings. There's more Oilers fans then LA Kings fans. It did terrible in Canada too. If he played for the Whalers, it would have gotten small ratings too. Not a lot of people know about 30 for 30 in Canada. There's not one single episode f 30 for 30 in canadian Netflix. Plus I think less people are watching sports media station every year unless a game is on. All Star Games ratings are down every year, All Star Draft was low this year, same with Trade Deadline, same with sports center, I think the NHL draft last year was low but it might of been because it wasn't a very hyped draft class with Florida picking first. Point is sports media on TV is kind of dead since we can get up to date news on our phones. Also things are depressing enough in edmonton. Not a lot of Oilers fans want to watch a documentary of the beginning of the downfall of the Oilers that since then they never recovered from. Off season is where the most optimism happens in edmonton. Then it's all gone by November
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Post by tigermaskxxxvii on Mar 8, 2015 15:42:31 GMT -5
I forgot to mention Big Shot. That's amazing that through putting up the facade of being a lot richer than he was, John Spano almost walked off with the New York Islanders. If he had just kept the team long enough or their new cable deal to kick in he could have kept up the installments and kept the team. I'm surprised it's not more of a well known story. Has there ever been an American Greed episode about this?
Brian & The Boz was good for the story telling device of Brian and his son going through through the storage locker and his son finding amusement in what Brian is now embarrassed by (i.e. the "National Communists Against Athletes" t-shirt). Also kind of shows the difference between Brian and his son when his son is amazed that Boz was given scholarship offers from Ivy League institutions like Princeton and Boz just nonchalantly explains not accepting it because Princeton didn't have a great football program.
The U I & II aren't my favorites, but they are pretty damn good. If for nothing else to see the excessive celebrations by the Miami players (I love in the first installment how an NCAA instructional video about new excessive celebration rules looked like a Hurricanes' best of video) and the Nevin Shapiro story and the 7th Floor Crew debacle (G-reg!) was interesting.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Mar 8, 2015 16:10:35 GMT -5
I'll echo everyone else's praise for Best That Never Was. The Hillsborough one was fascinating, but saddening.
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Post by No Name is needed Bro Beans on Mar 8, 2015 18:25:53 GMT -5
It's all about the U The Boz and Bo ones were good Bad Boys
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beamanhogan
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Post by beamanhogan on Mar 9, 2015 8:13:15 GMT -5
As a hockey fan, I loved Of Miracles and Men as well as Big Shot. My other favorites are:
June 17 1994 - This one is incredible in everyway This Is What They Want - It is about Jimmy Connors. It is absolutely fascinating. It also makes me realize why the US doesn't care about tennis as much anymore. You Don't Know Bo and The Boz - These both really let you in on the madness that was the hype on these guys and shows you their human side. Both men are extremely humble Into The Wind - Just a heartbreaking and inspiring Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL - I just watched this one. I liked it much more than I thought I would.
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Mar 9, 2015 8:37:00 GMT -5
IMO, there is not a single bad 30 for 30 movie. My favorites are Pony Excess and Hillsborough. I don't hate any of them, though.
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Mar 9, 2015 12:09:08 GMT -5
This thread got me on a binge watching these. I went out of my way before this to see "You don't know Bo" and "Brian and the Boz" already. "The Day the World Series stopped" was also one of great interest.
"Pony Excess" came highly recommended and I see why - but it still doesn't really explain to me why Miami(FL) and Penn state didn't get the same punishment because what they did was FAR worse in both cases. Am I punishing students who weren't even involved? Maybe, but unless you shut down and start fresh, as "Pony Excess" tells us, the problems will not go away.
I watched "Hillsborough" and that sufficiently creeped me out.
"Charismatic", "June 17 1994" and "Broke" also rate high for me.
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Post by The Mark of Mark on Mar 9, 2015 17:29:33 GMT -5
For me, all the best ones were in the first season. The three best for me were, June 17, 1994, Jordan Rides the Bus, and Winning Time: Reggie Miller vs the New York Knicks.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Mar 9, 2015 17:42:15 GMT -5
I honestly can't say I've disliked any I've seen yet(though Silly Little Game is probably my least favorite).
I constantly find myself being really fascinated by the college basketball related ones, with the college football ones being in second, and the NBA ones being third. Note, I mean in terms of overall scope.
My overall favorites are probably Pony Excess, Winning Time, Hillsborough, and Once Brothers.
Edit: I also want to say that Rand University is quite the gut punch when you think about how many potential star athletes saw their futures burn out due to the living situation in Rand, West Virginia. It's a god damn miracle Randy Moss managed to escape that and make a name for himself.
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Post by sfvega on Mar 9, 2015 18:13:43 GMT -5
- Pony Excess: I think it's better than The U or The U Part II because it doesn't sugarcoat anything or put on rose-colored glasses and tell us how awesome everything was. It doesn't ask the Southern Methodist players or coaches to tell the audience how badass they were or how cool they were. It's gritty and honest and does not pull a single punch. Yeah, only Michael Irvin was willing to admit they got backlash, because they were bad boys. Everybody else had excuses, but Irvin flat out said "We were bad boys." Freaking Michael Irvin took responsibility for the backlash they got, and didn't try to blame anyone else or say there was a conspiracy. Also in The U, they take shots at Butch Davis, and how it wasn't Miami football anymore, but they also turn around and brag about accomplishments of his teams. That last part was not really true. Miami LOVED Butch Davis. The guys that played for him were his biggest fans, and the notable alumni liked him because he brought them back to glory after really, really bad years. It was still very much Miami football (pocket passer, unreal speed players at the skill positions, BA defense, swagger). To someone else's point, it's true, hockey is a complete afterthought to ESPN. They essentially don't cover it at all anymore. Olbermann does occasionally, but that's it. The hockey 30 for 30's ratings don't really matter. You can't really make the documentary on his LA days, seeing as how it was a disappointment. His exit from Edmonton with that success is the real story. The story on the Miracle on Ice was really well done. To them, our fans were hostile villains. It's all about perspective. That slash they covered on the Canada series by Clarke was terrible too. What a goon move. They seemed like a nice bunch that just got overconfident, hearing them talk about how they decimated the US the previous time they played. And it also covered how big that first goal before the end of the 1st period really likely changed the outcome of the game. We always remember Eruzione's goal, but that crazy goal at the end of the period really was the most important play. Tretiak is one of the best goalies ever in international play, and one of the best Russian players ever. The decision to pull him was very short-sighted and impulsive. The Boz one was good as well. Him at the end telling his son about how his father rode him so hard, and how he couldn't please everybody. Boz really had a bad relationship with his father, and it all allowed him to finally give him perspective on things. That allowed him to give his son really good, loving advice. It made you feel bad for the guy, the same way The Marinovich Project did.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Mar 9, 2015 22:15:41 GMT -5
I loved the 30 for 30 about the Bad Boys. Being a basketball fanatic it was a nice, intelligent, and refreshing look on that era of basketball given the physicality, the trash talk, and how the Pistons showed what being the villain in basketball was all about in that particular year.
Although I have to admit I am looking forward to an eventual 30 for 30 about the Sacramento Kings/Los Angeles Lakers 2002 WCF.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 8:45:33 GMT -5
Since I am fascinated by former leagues and teams, I guess it should come as no surprise my two favorites are:
Small Potatoes: Who Killed The USFL?, and, Free Spirits (The Story Of The ABA's Spirits Of St. Louis)
I was a big fan of the USFL when I was a kid. (And I didn't even have a particular team I rooted for, I liked them all) I loved the idea of playing football when it was at least halfway warm outside. If it rained, your baseball game may be washed out, but you can grab a football and play. I find it very interesting there's still a settlement check floating around.
As for Free Spirits, just reading about this crazy ABA team from 1974-76 was enough to have me anticipating the 30 For 30 release. (Rather sad that Marvin finally got a chance to tell his story, then passed away not too long after its release.)
I liked a lot of the 30 For 30 episodes.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 9:44:18 GMT -5
Pony Excess is really well-made.
I like Once Brothers as well.
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BK From WV
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Post by BK From WV on Aug 30, 2015 10:36:23 GMT -5
Rand University is my favorite but that's mainly because I live about 45 minutes from there and have been there multiple times. Plus, I'm the same age as Randy Moss so I have followed him since high school.
Other than that, I will put a vote in for June 17,1994. As Citizen Snips mentioned, the editing was tremendous. I also loved Winning Time but that's because I'm an Indiana Pacers fan.
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