|
Post by Chuckie Finster on May 22, 2015 17:19:38 GMT -5
I just don't understand Vince, I really don't. They think NXT only appeals to hardcore smarks, and while that audience does follow it, you see a lot of families in the crowd there too. So if people are going apeshit for that product, and seem mostly indifferent to the main show, wouldn't it make sense, even from a purely business standpoint, to at least experiment with making the main show like that? I mean my God, how awesome would Raw be if it were booked more like NXT but with better production and bigger stars? It would be mind-blowingly glorious. Also, more on-topic, my wife who is a former wrestling fan thinks it's awesome whenever she sees an NXT show on. She always asks why the women's wrestling isn't like that on Raw. Vince is a product of the 80's. Muscle men, hot women as arm candy, everything big and grand. He lost touch years ago.
|
|
Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 73,503
Member is Online
|
Post by Chiral on May 22, 2015 17:30:09 GMT -5
I'm just so tired of the attitude Vince seemingly has that this current stagnation is fine. It's giving me serious WCW "The NWO is still drawing so we can't change anything" mindset. It feels like nothing will ever really grow in the company.
|
|
|
Post by Sparvid on May 22, 2015 21:05:34 GMT -5
As for his answers, what's he going to say about Vince in public? He's not going to lay into him, hes going to at most, make veiled shots like he did on the Austin podcast, Vince is still his father in law and boss, it's a fight you're never going to win, so he's going to wait in the wings till his moment comes. This made me check up what he said in the conference call about Charlotte losing in two minutes in her Raw debut:
|
|
|
Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on May 22, 2015 21:20:26 GMT -5
I just don't understand Vince, I really don't. They think NXT only appeals to hardcore smarks, and while that audience does follow it, you see a lot of families in the crowd there too. So if people are going apeshit for that product, and seem mostly indifferent to the main show, wouldn't it make sense, even from a purely business standpoint, to at least experiment with making the main show like that? I mean my God, how awesome would Raw be if it were booked more like NXT but with better production and bigger stars? It would be mind-blowingly glorious. Also, more on-topic, my wife who is a former wrestling fan thinks it's awesome whenever she sees an NXT show on. She always asks why the women's wrestling isn't like that on Raw. Vince is a product of the 80's. Muscle men, hot women as arm candy, everything big and grand. He lost touch years ago. I have heard it said that Vince has his mentality of women's wrestling, because the U.S. wrestling industry has struggled to draw with women's wrestling for 30 or so years. At the end of the day, I don't know how much will really change on the main roster, and the telling thing is that they still romanticize the person who "innovated" the simplistic punch/kick/hairpull style of women's wrestling, the Fabulous Moolah. Forget the allegations of her being a glorified pimp, just watch her old work and you can see a all the Sables, the Kelly Kellys, and Diva Search rejects in her limited, plodding move set. That is what Vince thinks of women's wrestling.
|
|
|
Post by Surfer Sandman on May 22, 2015 21:33:16 GMT -5
I don't know why Triple H and Vince can't come to an agreement: Give Trips one hour of Raw each week, to do what he wants to do, with the wrestlers he wants to use (excluding the obvious main event ones, let Vince keep them). One hour of Raw, dedicated to the same vision that Trips has realised in NXT. I think we'd soon see where the fans want the business to go. If Trips wants a twenty minute match between Becky Lynch and Sasha Banks (or perhaps Paige and Emma) on that hour of Raw, then so be it. They can just prove Vince wrong, that way. If that means 1 hour without local men or pointless 6 man tags, then I'm all for it.
|
|
gr1990
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,485
|
Post by gr1990 on May 22, 2015 22:05:14 GMT -5
It's far from the main problem with the main roster division, but I really feel Total Divas is symptomatic of Vince's attitude towards women in WWE. While the division exists to plug a reality show which A. doesn't match up to the characters and stories on the wrestling shows and B. has nearly all of its characters behaving like catty, superficial morons, it's very unlikely we're gonna see the girls treated as serious athletes, and would make it harder to take them seriously if they were.
Think about it, how jarring and undermining would it be if alongside all the great, all-out wrestling matches the NXT girls were having, there was a reality show where Charlotte was getting icy hot in her butt, Sasha and her boyfriend were going to sex therapy, Becky was freezing her eggs, and the whole thing just seemed to be an excuse to get the girls in bikinis and lingerie and zoom in on their tits and asses? It just wouldn't work.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 22:22:16 GMT -5
Am I the only one who, when reading this, just thought Stephanie was thrown in there to be thrown in there? NXT is all Triple H's thing, I know she's his wife but not even once did I think "Damn, Stephanie's really making a movement with this NXT thing" especially after the #GiveDivasAChance fiasco.
And another thing, anytime I read these Vince vs Triple H stories, I get the idea that they're Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 23:05:02 GMT -5
One has to look no further than Nikki Bella's enterance to see what is wrong with the division: her music of "you can look but you can't touch," wearing too much make up and a low cut top and doing that stripper move where she turns around while carrying the DIVAS title. Times have changed. Women should be viewed as athletes. Have them stop acting like mean, jealous divas. They need to stop dissing each other by calling people fat, ugly, smelly. It should be called the Women's title too. Totally agree. And I don't put that on Nikki, she's a wrestler trying to get over, and that's how women have gotten over in WWE in the past. But it's indicative of the biggest problem with womens' wrestling in WWE and most pro wrestling companies.
|
|
|
Post by Andy Martin on May 22, 2015 23:08:49 GMT -5
I don't know why Triple H and Vince can't come to an agreement: Give Trips one hour of Raw each week, to do what he wants to do, with the wrestlers he wants to use (excluding the obvious main event ones, let Vince keep them). One hour of Raw, dedicated to the same vision that Trips has realised in NXT. I think we'd soon see where the fans want the business to go. If Trips wants a twenty minute match between Becky Lynch and Sasha Banks (or perhaps Paige and Emma) on that hour of Raw, then so be it. They can just prove Vince wrong, that way. If that means 1 hour without local men or pointless 6 man tags, then I'm all for it. What if it's an hour long Trips promo?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 23:10:26 GMT -5
I'd quite happily have all the (good) women on NXT. They're all better off and more respected there. As a fan, it's what I want to see. But, I also want these talented people to be rewarded by moving up the ladder, making more money, and being exposed to larger audiences. If NXT goes on the road more often and they're making good money without WWE's bs, I would absolutely love that.
|
|
Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
|
Post by Reflecto on May 22, 2015 23:21:21 GMT -5
This is going to be unpopular, but so what if he's not doing it to be a social crusader? So freaking what? Why is him seeing it as "best for business" such a horrible, evil thing? The big problem is if he's not doing it for social reasons, or even "best for business", it may not last. The fact is- there were time periods in the WWF when women's wrestling was pushed hard and made a major part of the show. The era when Alundra Blayze was on top of the company, and they brought in top joshi stars to work with her and put on amazing matches was one. Likewise, the mid-'80s and the start of the WWF's rise when Wendi Richter was arguably as popular as Hulk Hogan was another. Both of these things are proof WWF will push women's wrestling as a threat- but if you look closer: The run of Wendi Richter happened in 1985, and it ended by 1989. Likewise, the rise of women's wrestling in the '90s happened around 1993 and fizzled out by 1995. Compare these things to Vince McMahon's own life at the time, and it has to be said: Stephanie McMahon was 8-9 in the reign of Wendi Richter, and was 13 when the women's division fizzled (around the time you could buy her "outgrowing" wrestling. Then, the reign of Alundra Blayze happened when she was 16, and ended when she was 18 and ready to go to college (right along the time when Vince would put a hard sell on Stephanie to enter the family business when she grew up.) Now, remember- Triple H had said in the mid '00s he wasn't particularly a fan of women's wrestling- but he's a big proponent of making it a major part of the company now- while Triple H and Stephanie's daughters are starting to be old enough to be WWE fans- and there is that question mark of whether WWE's doing the same thing Vince McMahon did- and likewise, if it'll falter like it did with Vince McMahon's running the show.
|
|
King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,726
|
Post by King Devitt on May 23, 2015 1:26:42 GMT -5
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were like "hey Charlotte we're going to call you up to Raw now" and she responded "oh...no...no thanks."
|
|
Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,892
Member is Online
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on May 23, 2015 1:34:31 GMT -5
I don't follow UFC, so I don't know, so I'm just looking in and I think all other things being equal Rousey isn't nearly as popular if she weren't hot. My entire feeling is that's better than 50% of the appeal. I mean fighting, acting, all those things she's getting to do now all pretty much go away if she looks like Mike Tyson in a wig.
Am I totally off base?
|
|
|
Post by Prince Petty on May 23, 2015 10:53:47 GMT -5
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were like "hey Charlotte we're going to call you up to Raw now" and she responded "oh...no...no thanks." I would fully expect that she at least felt that way. I don't imagine Emma, or even Paige, have much good to say about working on the main roster. Not in terms of the work they were allowed to do, anyway. And these women aren't stupid, they watch Raw and Smackdown, they see what a joke the Divas Division is, there. Much better to be in NXT where you're not treated as a joke. As for Ronda Rousey only being popular because she's hot... that's probably at least partly true. But I don't think there's too much wrong with that, at least not in terms of comparing it to pro wrestling. Generally, male wrestlers have to be photogenic to get to the top. There are exceptions, like Hogan and Foley, but Vince doesn't really push guys who aren't at least physically attractive. Ronda Rousey might not be popular if she looked like a bulldog, but John Cena would never have been the face of the WWE if he looked like Bastion Booger.
|
|
|
Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on May 23, 2015 10:57:32 GMT -5
Clearly, the discussion is whether or not Eva Marie should be a 10 time Divas champion or if they should go all in and just throw the world title on her when she sells more merch than the Rock during his peak.
|
|
percymania
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Percymania will live forever! Oh yeah!
Posts: 17,296
|
Post by percymania on May 23, 2015 12:04:41 GMT -5
I'm going out on a limb and predicting the WWE will form a female Nexus. A Four Horsewomen-esque stable. Charlotte, Sasha Banks, Becky Lynch and Bailey all will debut together as complete badasses, laying out the Bella Twins and any other Diva on the roster. Maybe this is more of a wish than a prediction, but I just wanted to throw that idea out there.
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,076
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on May 23, 2015 12:17:22 GMT -5
I'm going out on a limb and predicting the WWE will form a female Nexus. A Four Horsewomen-esque stable. Charlotte, Sasha Banks, Becky Lynch and Bailey all will debut together as complete badasses, laying out the Bella Twins and any other Diva on the roster. Maybe this is more of a wish than a prediction, but I just wanted to throw that idea out there. Not as long as Beaver-faced Kevin Dunn lives and breathes.
|
|
Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,023
|
Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on May 23, 2015 13:02:27 GMT -5
I'm going out on a limb and predicting the WWE will form a female Nexus. A Four Horsewomen-esque stable. Charlotte, Sasha Banks, Becky Lynch and Bailey all will debut together as complete badasses, laying out the Bella Twins and any other Diva on the roster. Maybe this is more of a wish than a prediction, but I just wanted to throw that idea out there. Just personally, I'd hate that, lumping them all together in one group takes away from the individuals in this case. For a start Bailey as a badass? That's the opposite of her skills and appeal, I'd much rather debut them all over 2-3 months against other people then have them feud, team and be part of the main roster. Those 4 characters are all so good on their own they should all have their own spotlights.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on May 23, 2015 13:06:25 GMT -5
I'm going out on a limb and predicting the WWE will form a female Nexus. A Four Horsewomen-esque stable. Charlotte, Sasha Banks, Becky Lynch and Bailey all will debut together as complete badasses, laying out the Bella Twins and any other Diva on the roster. Maybe this is more of a wish than a prediction, but I just wanted to throw that idea out there. Just personally, I'd hate that, lumping them all together in one group takes away from the individuals in this case. For a start Bailey as a badass? That's the opposite of her skills and appeal, I'd much rather debut them all over 2-3 months against other people then have them feud, team and be part of the main roster. Those 4 characters are all so good on their own they should all have their own spotlights. Yeah... debuting Bailey as a badass goes against just about everything that makes her popular.
|
|
Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,023
|
Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on May 23, 2015 13:18:53 GMT -5
Plus, it'd be another version of "divas v wrestlers" which is up there with "psycho lesbian stalker" for most used divas angle, it'd make them all heels, being a big group of superior athletes who the audience don't know picking on people they do who would only stand a chance by heroically banding together.
|
|