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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on May 23, 2015 23:27:49 GMT -5
Of course the worst Hideo vs Breeze match is better than anything Marcus Louis or Jason Jordan have ever done. And that highlights one of the few kinks in the armor of the developmental system. Hideo is proven worldwide and is being allowed to properly transition to the new environment (see his first NXT match compared to his most recent ones). Breeze is quite good and is actually benefiting by getting to work with guys like Neville, Zayn, Kidd, Hideo and Finn often. Are Marcus Louis or Jason Jordan being given the same opportunities to learn and grow or even utilize what they're learned from those talents? When do they even get to work with them? Here's a question. Does it matter if you work with some of the most talented people in your industry if you never actually get to work with some of the most talented people in your industry? About that last part, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all of them work at the Performance Center pretty much every day? If they wanna work with somebody just be like, "Hey, could you help me out?" I doubt guys like Sami, Finn, Hideo, or Owens are gonna say no. I don't think anyone is willing to help anyone out. i think everyone rationalizes that "if I teach this scrub what i know, he might become good enough to take my spot and f*** that". I don't think any of those guys will be willing to share knowledge until they retire.
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Post by Nic Nemeth on May 23, 2015 23:28:30 GMT -5
Of course the worst Hideo vs Breeze match is better than anything Marcus Louis or Jason Jordan have ever done. And that highlights one of the few kinks in the armor of the developmental system. Hideo is proven worldwide and is being allowed to properly transition to the new environment (see his first NXT match compared to his most recent ones). Breeze is quite good and is actually benefiting by getting to work with guys like Neville, Zayn, Kidd, Hideo and Finn often. Are Marcus Louis or Jason Jordan being given the same opportunities to learn and grow or even utilize what they're learned from those talents? When do they even get to work with them? Here's a question. Does it matter if you work with some of the most talented people in your industry if you never actually get to work with some of the most talented people in your industry? About that last part, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all of them work at the Performance Center pretty much every day? If they wanna work with somebody just be like, "Hey, could you help me out?" I doubt guys like Sami, Finn, Hideo, or Owens are gonna say no. There's a difference between Finn Balor teaching you how to do an armbar than putting Finn Balor in an armbar in a high-profile Takeover match.
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JCBaggee
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Post by JCBaggee on May 23, 2015 23:32:55 GMT -5
I see the whole "___ is taking a spot away from the younger guys" and I never understand it. Why does Rock, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar being on the card mean someone else can't be? With Rock and Lesnar, it's more the argument that they're not around all year, show up for a few weeks around the biggest show of the year, take a prominent spot on the card that could have gone to someone who works their ass off all year long, collect large sacks of cash and go home for another 6-10 months. Undertaker less so, given his gimmick for the longest time was the streak, and his storyline still plays out there. It's kind of a bitch argument in how it gets out, but I do feel it's a valid enough argument. There's not a lot of spots on the card as it is, thanks to bad booking, ridiculous sketches, etc. When you spend six months working like hell only to get bumped down to, oh I don't know, a 20 man battle royal that gets pushed to the pre-show, I can see where it'd get frustrating.
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The Yes Man
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Post by The Yes Man on May 23, 2015 23:43:36 GMT -5
About that last part, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all of them work at the Performance Center pretty much every day? If they wanna work with somebody just be like, "Hey, could you help me out?" I doubt guys like Sami, Finn, Hideo, or Owens are gonna say no. I don't think anyone is willing to help anyone out. i think everyone rationalizes that "if I teach this scrub what i know, he might become good enough to take my spot and f*** that". I don't think any of those guys will be willing to share knowledge until they retire. I'm just gonna have to say, you're way way wrong, and way too cynical.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 4:17:43 GMT -5
It's a very different situation than The Rock. Rock wrestling once every year or two in the biggest match on the biggest card getting the biggest check is a much more divisive situation. The NXT thing is more like being a 5th round draft pick in the NFL, and your team signs a top-level, veteran free agent at your position. It still never made sense to hate Rock as he was the biggest star on the roster when he showed up. I think the thing with Rock is more understandable, at least. He certainly did nothing wrong, but I could get someone thinking "f***, I worked 200 matches this year, this guy swoops in and makes 5 times more in one match than I made all year?" Demoralizing might be the word, not necessarily ill-will towards Rock but towards the situation. The big difference is that the NXT guys all make similar money and work the same schedule.
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Reflecto
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The Sorceress' Knight
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Post by Reflecto on May 24, 2015 7:06:52 GMT -5
There's a difference between Finn Balor teaching you how to do an armbar than putting Finn Balor in an armbar in a high-profile Takeover match. This is the problem, and the fact the indy darlings are so well-respected does lead to the darker side that can actually put some shade on NXT as a promotion, if you think about it: In both the vaunted NXT men's and women's divisions, there's basically the same refrain: You have a group of undercarders, who may or may not be ready to be big stars, often with fun gimmicks to prop them up to a level they ordinarily wouldn't be at. Meanwhile, as this is going on, you have this other side of haves, who are undeniably the best of the bunch (be it the women and Charlotte/Sasha/Becky/Bayley, or the men with Owens/Zayn/Neville/Hideo/Balor)- who are clearly the best on the roster, but just as clearly really only work with each other, with only a couple of other names who aren't one of that group really getting the opportunity to work with them. And it's all run by the first chance to see how the next owner of WWE will run a promotion, the legendary Hunter Hearst Helmsley, er, Triple H. ...yeah, the parallels between HHH's NXT and WWF at the peak of The Kliq have to be noted.
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Post by The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} on May 24, 2015 8:10:07 GMT -5
Whoever's upset at this should never get a job...ever. Seriously. This isn't any different than me going for a promotion but my company hiring some dickweed with a degree and 15 years experience rather than my high school diploma and 4 years experience. It sucks, but you push on and try to make yourself standout for the next promotion.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on May 24, 2015 9:37:22 GMT -5
there probably is some resentment, but the fact of the matter is that guys like Owens/Zayn/Neville have more experience than the Johnny Ace specials and it shouldn't surprise anyone that a guy like Triple H puts more faith in them.
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on May 24, 2015 13:45:42 GMT -5
If anything, I kind of thought that savvy vets from the indies could teach the home grown guys some in ring experiences.
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Post by edtheripper on May 24, 2015 14:16:11 GMT -5
Of course the worst Hideo vs Breeze match is better than anything Marcus Louis or Jason Jordan have ever done. And that highlights one of the few kinks in the armor of the developmental system. Hideo is proven worldwide and is being allowed to properly transition to the new environment (see his first NXT match compared to his most recent ones). Breeze is quite good and is actually benefiting by getting to work with guys like Neville, Zayn, Kidd, Hideo and Finn often. Are Marcus Louis or Jason Jordan being given the same opportunities to learn and grow or even utilize what they're learned from those talents? When do they even get to work with them? Here's a question. Does it matter if you work with some of the most talented people in your industry if you never actually get to work with some of the most talented people in your industry? About that last part, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all of them work at the Performance Center pretty much every day? If they wanna work with somebody just be like, "Hey, could you help me out?" I doubt guys like Sami, Finn, Hideo, or Owens are gonna say no. I actually just watched an interview conducted by Brian Myers featuring Colt Cabana, Tomasso Ciampa and Chris Hero. In the video, Hero says that he felt he was looked down upon by people in charge for helping others.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 24, 2015 15:11:28 GMT -5
About that last part, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all of them work at the Performance Center pretty much every day? If they wanna work with somebody just be like, "Hey, could you help me out?" I doubt guys like Sami, Finn, Hideo, or Owens are gonna say no. I actually just watched an interview conducted by Brian Myers featuring Colt Cabana, Tomasso Ciampa and Chris Hero. In the video, Hero says that he felt he was looked down upon by people in charge for helping others. Yeah, but wasn't Bill "The Human Rimjob" DeMott in charge at that time? Of course he was looked down upon for helping people. The people paid to train people weren't too big on doing it, so what was wrong with Hero if he actually wanted to do so?
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Post by Next Level was WRONG on May 24, 2015 15:17:56 GMT -5
Then they would be as lame as the ones mad at The Rock. As glad as I am this is getting likes, I really, really wish I had just put "Shut up Mojo".
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on May 25, 2015 3:31:42 GMT -5
If anything, I kind of thought that savvy vets from the indies could teach the home grown guys some in ring experiences. But that never happens because the Indy guys are in a bubble and other than Tyler Breeze and the occasional main roster ne'er do well like Kidd or Riley (who is hanging around NXT to work on his craft but really didn't get to because his feud with Owens were glorified squashes/filler), no one gets to work with them. And when they do, it's usually just two minute jobber squash. there probably is some resentment, but the fact of the matter is that guys like Owens/Zayn/Neville have more experience than the Johnny Ace specials and it shouldn't surprise anyone that a guy like Triple H puts more faith in them. The "Johnny Ace Specials" are not given the proper opportunities to work on their craft to even get better in the first place. It's a stupid catch 22 that hurts a lot of talents. Kevin Owens and friends are more experienced. The "homegrown" talents are not as experienced, so they're not allowed to try to gain experience because they aren't experienced enough. There's a lot wrong with that.
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Post by The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} on May 25, 2015 6:39:29 GMT -5
If anything, I kind of thought that savvy vets from the indies could teach the home grown guys some in ring experiences. But that never happens because the Indy guys are in a bubble and other than Tyler Breeze and the occasional main roster ne'er do well like Kidd or Riley (who is hanging around NXT to work on his craft but really didn't get to because his feud with Owens were glorified squashes/filler), no one gets to work with them. And when they do, it's usually just two minute jobber squash. there probably is some resentment, but the fact of the matter is that guys like Owens/Zayn/Neville have more experience than the Johnny Ace specials and it shouldn't surprise anyone that a guy like Triple H puts more faith in them. The "Johnny Ace Specials" are not given the proper opportunities to work on their craft to even get better in the first place. It's a stupid catch 22 that hurts a lot of talents. Kevin Owens and friends are more experienced. The "homegrown" talents are not as experienced, so they're not allowed to try to gain experience because they aren't experienced enough. There's a lot wrong with that. Again, really no different than a real job. I need 5 years experience as a supervisor to get my promotion, but I can't get promoted to a supervisor position because I don't have supervisor experience. It's a circlejerk to the highest degree, but no different than any job.
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Madagascar Fred
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Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on May 25, 2015 8:25:29 GMT -5
IDK I always got the vibe that NXT "homegrowns" like Bo, Bray, Ascension, Hunicocara, Breeze, Rowan, Mojo, Bull, Enzo or Cass get/got along very well with the indy darlings
Of course there is the competitive vibe in such an environment, but being a team at the same time is only benefiting the entire brand and every individual. Same can be said about the climate at your workplace or at professional sports teams
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on May 25, 2015 9:03:46 GMT -5
If I was Marcus Louis or Jason Jordan, I'd be mad if I had to miss three months of NXT episodes just so they can repeat Hideo vs Breeze matches. If I was Marcus Louis, I would actually try adn get people at house shows to buy my character.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by kidglov3s on May 25, 2015 9:21:52 GMT -5
It's an actual problem that NXT's dual functions (Developmental and Internet Super Indie) are not mutually compatible, and in both cases the one aim undermines the other.
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percymania
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Post by percymania on May 25, 2015 13:06:23 GMT -5
I think I share the same rage with everyone else that Rhyno has taken away Bull Dempsey's spot. I mean who doesn't want to see more of Bull Dempsey?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on May 25, 2015 13:12:13 GMT -5
I think I share the same rage with everyone else that Rhyno has taken away Bull Dempsey's spot. I mean who doesn't want to see more of Bull Dempsey? I despise Bull Dempsey, and I think he's only there as an excuse for WWE to claim that they aren't focused on looks/physiques, and I was a mark for Rhyno when he first arrived in WWE, but yeah, he is kinda taking up space. Rhyno's purpose is basically to give a "rub" to guys who are either bigger stars than he ever was or guys would be pushed as a "threat" anyway whether he was there or not.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on May 25, 2015 14:00:07 GMT -5
I think a LOT of people are projecting in this thread.
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