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Post by xCompackx on May 26, 2015 14:37:09 GMT -5
Meltzer is on-point. There's no reason why they can't still exist (and they still do somewhat albeit they are much more rare) but the week to week booking that WWE does kinda makes it impossible to do well. Doing a blood feud right requires patience, patience that the creative team (well, really Vince more than anybody) doesn't have. Their direction changes focus so often that it's damn near impossible to build towards a satisfying climax. How fast the product moves is another issue, especially now that there is no brand split and guys are going show to show. The biggest star in the company, John Cena, being notorious for not really caring all that much when he loses a title (but getting disproportionally angry when somebody uses their MITB title shot) certainly doesn't help either. It's not like we'll never see another "blood" feud where guys just bring the hate every single time they are in the ring together but they've kinda gone out of style in WWE. I'd agree. The brand split definitely helped with establishing long running rivalries and keeping them fresh to an extent. By being able to move wrestlers to different shows allowed them when a feud did come back together on the same show to reignite interest. That's a big reason why I disagree with anyone who says ending the brand split was a good idea. They wanted competition and to avoid a huge roster with guys not being used, and a huge roster with guys not being used is exactly what we have now. Everyone being able to wrestle everyone else doesn't make for interesting feuds.
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Post by Fearless The Tank on May 26, 2015 17:10:43 GMT -5
I was actually thinking yesterday about how long it's been since wrestling had a really good sibling rivalry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 17:49:06 GMT -5
I disagree with Rollins/Ambrose even being close. The build had way too many cute pranks from Ambrose to be taken seriously as an "oh God if we don't keep these guys separated someone's gonna get killed" kind of thing. The Hell in a Cell match definitely had a blood feud kind of vibe to it but the feud was way too flawed for me to count it.
For me I think the last feud that really felt like it had a tangible heat was Paul Heyman vs. CM Punk leading up to Brock/Punk. Whenever they'd go back and forth it felt like there was a lot of venom behind them, Heyman especially when he did the promo after getting a pinfall win over Punk.
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Post by Clawley Race on May 26, 2015 17:49:13 GMT -5
I was actually thinking yesterday about how long it's been since wrestling had a really good sibling rivalry. How many really good sibling rivalries have there been? 1? 1 and 1/2? 2 and 2 halves if they aren't real brothers?
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on May 26, 2015 17:59:20 GMT -5
What are you guys talking about?! Cena vs. Orton is a classic grudge feud! As is Big Show vs. Kane!
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
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Post by Perd on May 26, 2015 18:06:04 GMT -5
Where have all the grudge feuds gone Dave is asking
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on May 26, 2015 19:38:22 GMT -5
Doesn't help when they use the same old formula for every "feud":
Main event: - boring ass promo to start raw. - praises Rollins, mocks crowd, authority teases dissension. -face comes out, mocks authority, pop culture reference or lame jokes thrown - authority upset, makes match that involves Local Man or Men. - match ends in dq, with shenanigans.
EVERY SINGLE WEEK.
Midcard: - guys have match that heel dominates and wins handil - rematch that face wins "outta nowhere!!!" With the variation of the heel laying the face out after the match. - rematch next week -rematch at ppv preshow -rematch next week -rematch next week -rematch on superstars
No one cares anymore.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 26, 2015 20:02:34 GMT -5
It would of and should have been Orton and HHH as a long standing blood fued. They had the right tone when Authority first started with I still don't like you but we are a benefit for each other. When Authority ended you could of just had them settle it once and for all before Orton got to Seth. For the rest of the guys, who has really been around long enough to be a given a lengthy feud that didn't involve fighting over a tittle. Kofi really doesn't have personal feuds. There is a struggle to get a lot of guys enough time to get their feuds and characters over.
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Post by MichaelMartini on May 26, 2015 20:17:36 GMT -5
Part of the problem is their unwillingness to at least try and protect kayfabe a little bit. We know it's fake but we need suspension of disbelief to help us get involved. You can't be hitting people in the heads with a sledgehammer and then have the good sportsman handshake after for instance. It's to the point where I'm surprised the wrestlers don't bow for the audience after. "Thanks for coming! We hope you enjoyed our sports entertainment show!"
It's also hard to have a blood feud without blood.
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Post by Fearless The Tank on May 26, 2015 20:41:36 GMT -5
I was actually thinking yesterday about how long it's been since wrestling had a really good sibling rivalry. How many really good sibling rivalries have there been? 1? 1 and 1/2? 2 and 2 halves if they aren't real brothers? Bret vs Owen Matt vs Jeff Rick vs Scott Booker vs Stevie Goldust vs Stardust Fake Siblings: Taker vs Kane Dudleyz vs Spike Edge vs Christian
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 20:51:17 GMT -5
PG with ban on blood makes it hard. We get grudge feuds all the time, you just can't have a big violent brawl now. Ambrose/Rollins in the Cell had weapons and big bumps but no blood made it feel hollow.
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Post by Clawley Race on May 27, 2015 14:53:26 GMT -5
How many really good sibling rivalries have there been? 1? 1 and 1/2? 2 and 2 halves if they aren't real brothers? Bret vs Owen Matt vs Jeff Rick vs Scott Booker vs Stevie Goldust vs Stardust Fake Siblings: Taker vs Kane Dudleyz vs Spike Edge vs Christian I wouldn't call all of those good...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 16:14:59 GMT -5
I'd agree. The brand split definitely helped with establishing long running rivalries and keeping them fresh to an extent. By being able to move wrestlers to different shows allowed them when a feud did come back together on the same show to reignite interest. That's a big reason why I disagree with anyone who says ending the brand split was a good idea. They wanted competition and to avoid a huge roster with guys not being used, and a huge roster with guys not being used is exactly what we have now. Everyone being able to wrestle everyone else doesn't make for interesting feuds. Well no, not automatically. It could though, if they weren't so redundant. Maybe you don't shill through 1/3 or more of your broadcast. Maybe you don't trot Authority out there so much. Maybe you reign the talking segments in a bit and have a little faith in your main events. You could work all sorts of different programs. They can't book though. They focus on like three things and to hell with the rest of the roster. You could split the roster any number of ways and that's still what you'd get. Tunnelvision.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 27, 2015 17:59:44 GMT -5
People are too jaded and all. It is hard to believe that people legitimately hate each other anymore. How many times in the last 20 years can you think of feuds where you truly believed that the guys involved hated each other? There was Bret/HBK (which became more legit as time wore on), Matt/Edge (they apparently were getting along better by the time they actually were stiffing each other in the ring), and then .....? Did Lawler and Dundee have any matches after Lawler went to the WWF?
Seriously, blood feuds benefited from fans not knowing who really hated who. You believed that the R&R Express and the Midnight Express hated each others' guts. You bought into Savage and Hogan (though that might not have been totally fake either). You bought into those old blood feuds because you did not know that they were actually friends. Blood feuds is just a thing you had to give up to get a peek behind the curtain.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 18:25:07 GMT -5
For me I think the last feud that really felt like it had a tangible heat was Paul Heyman vs. CM Punk leading up to Brock/Punk. Whenever they'd go back and forth it felt like there was a lot of venom behind them, Heyman especially when he did the promo after getting a pinfall win over Punk. I said it a few times on here, but that Heyman/Punk promo the night after Heyman turned on him is one of my favorite promos ever. I believed Punk wanted to murder everyone Heyman knew and Heyman himself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 20:31:39 GMT -5
Blood feuds are the staple of wrestling. Even the silly ones or at least the more cartoonier ones like Austin vs. McMahon still had hatred and hijinxes to get each other's skin. I want to say Daniel Bryan vs. The Authority was one but I really can't. It didn't feel really personal until the last month before Mania. Instead it was The Authority making passive aggressive comments towards Daniel Bryan, Daniel Bryan stands there like a bitch taking it and light heartedly defends his popularity and making stupid jokes, The Authority sets up impossible odds as main event, and a DQ finish beat down for the billionth time. Not once does Daniel Bryan try to outsmart and one up The Authority backstage or something or try attack HHH in the ring when it's just the two of them standing in the ring after all the beatdowns HHH ordered against Daniel Bryan for weeks.
It never felt personal, just an annoying never ending speed bump. I get that they were trying to minimizes HHH's action in the ring and save it on a PPV to make it feel special like he's the final boss but couldn't they have something like Daniel Bryan trying attack HHH and barely escapes every week with The Shield or Orton getting in the way or something?
I'm really hope they can build a good blood feud between The Shield Guys that finally eclipses into a heated Triple Threat for it has potential to be a great storyline and the rare opportunity of a near two year build. But having Roman Reigns/Dean Ambrose vs. Rollins/Kane every week isn't doing any favors. If there was compelling drama and heat every week then it wouldn't be bad but no it's just heatless and repetitive.
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Post by RedSmile on May 27, 2015 22:46:24 GMT -5
In NJPW, Makabe and Iishi are having a fantastic grudge feud.
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Post by MichaelMartini on May 28, 2015 16:22:39 GMT -5
People are too jaded and all. It is hard to believe that people legitimately hate each other anymore. How many times in the last 20 years can you think of feuds where you truly believed that the guys involved hated each other? There was Bret/HBK (which became more legit as time wore on), Matt/Edge (they apparently were getting along better by the time they actually were stiffing each other in the ring), and then .....? Did Lawler and Dundee have any matches after Lawler went to the WWF? Seriously, blood feuds benefited from fans not knowing who really hated who. You believed that the R&R Express and the Midnight Express hated each others' guts. You bought into Savage and Hogan (though that might not have been totally fake either). You bought into those old blood feuds because you did not know that they were actually friends. Blood feuds is just a thing you had to give up to get a peek behind the curtain. I get your point but it goes back to my point about how they don't make any effort to protect kayfabe anymore. Even though we know it's fake it's still has to be upheld to enhance storylines. Supersweet mentioned Austin/McMahon being cartoony, and it was but I was still able to believe they hated each other because of how carefully crafted the storyline was. Behind the curtain, I knew they probably loved each other at the time because of how much money they were both making off the angle. But nothing presented would lead me to believe that. Although fake, the hate still felt real.
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Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
Own Nothing, Be Happy
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Post by Sam Punk on May 30, 2015 12:18:14 GMT -5
Tommy Dreamer vs the buffet table
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on May 30, 2015 12:34:46 GMT -5
I was actually thinking yesterday about how long it's been since wrestling had a really good sibling rivalry. I WISH YOU DIED IN THE WOMB!!!
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