Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on May 29, 2015 16:47:57 GMT -5
As I read the DA cancelling TNA thread and saw some of the official letters recently posted, one of them where Russo was trying to backstab the Jarretts and cozy up to Dixie, a thought crossed my mind.
When you think about TNA over the years, from it's start to now, where they ran before they could walk with the weekly PPV's with no TV shows or house events, the many years stuck in the Impact Zone, and then Ditzy Dixie gaining more power, was TNA doomed from the beginning? I present this question to you, fine peoples of FAN. Discuss about this doom and gloom.
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
Ozymandius
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on May 29, 2015 16:52:58 GMT -5
Yes, they had numerous chances to become a big deal but squandered them by sticking to Crash TV, relying on stars of the past that can't go for shit, rehashing the old as something new and relying on tired and cliched tropes. They had and still have a boatload of good talent but instead and so stuck on pushing Angle and his broken down body and giant ego. When you have a roster that has talent like EC3, Bram, Magnus, even f***ing Gunner and instead of trying to develop them you stick to the past you are going to fail. TNA's biggest problem is TNA
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Post by CuJ0 Will Keep Dancing on May 29, 2015 17:05:20 GMT -5
I think the name TNA would still hold them back even if the company had great marketing and was properly managed.
TNA has connotations outside outside the wrestling world and after some of their misfires the TNA grew negative connotations within the wrestling world as well. When they had the chance to change that they never seemed to go all in on the Impact Wrestling brand name.
Like others have said here, with that brand name it was always going to be a tough go.
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Post by JTG Fan on May 29, 2015 17:12:01 GMT -5
I thought in 2009 they were on the verge of at least being consistent in the ratings with room for growth (They were pulling in 1.4s for a little while) and a solid mix of veterans and younger talent to move forward with.
And then Hogan/Bischoff happen and they shot for the moon and missed by a few million feet.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on May 29, 2015 17:12:50 GMT -5
There actually was a period when the company was showing some solid growth. Their TV deal with Spike got progressively better until they had two hours on prime time, they started running PPVs away from the Impact Zone, they signed some real stars, and they could have continued on that path and slowly grew the brand.
Then, they got the bright idea to listen to Hulk Hogan's garbage about creating a second Monday Night War, and then further gambled on going on the road AT A HUGE LOSS with no idea how to make that money back.
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Post by cabbageboy on May 29, 2015 17:56:33 GMT -5
When I went to a TNA house show in 2007 I thought it was awesome. It had a great mix of younger stars, veteran big names, a bit of brawling violence, cruiser action, whatever. It seemed like a matter of time before the company went big time. The problem TNA has always had is that there is just no consistency to the product. They'll have a few good months and build some momentum, but then it's followed by some truly awful angle. Great wrestling mixed in with horrific booking has almost become the TNA brand identity.
TNA has never quite known what they are trying to do. Are they trying to be an ECW style alternative company with violence and mayhem? A middle of the road WCW style #2 promotion? A place for up and coming stars? A place for veterans to reignite their careers? ROH has at least always had a clear vision for what they want to be as a promotion. I can't say the same about TNA.
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on May 29, 2015 18:08:43 GMT -5
I thought in 2009 they were on the verge of at least being consistent in the ratings with room for growth (They were pulling in 1.4s for a little while) and a solid mix of veterans and younger talent to move forward with. And then Hogan/Bischoff happen and they shot for the moon and missed by a few million feet. I was gutted when Desmond Wolfe's rise in TNA stopped later in 2010.
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Johnny D
Don Corleone
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Post by Johnny D on May 29, 2015 18:11:44 GMT -5
I'll never forgive them for stopping Monty Brown's push, guy is on the verge of becoming a big star then BAM they turn him heel for no real reason and it all just went downhill from there for him.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on May 29, 2015 18:14:57 GMT -5
I believed they did but the issues was a lot of poor management and booking moves. Now some could blame Spike TV wants but at the end you got to find the balance. Even before Spike TV it was poor moves after another. I'll break down a few things that they could done that I believe they could been a consistent 2.0 rating and a decent PPV revenue producer, and a solid drawing crowds. Some does with business and some has to do with booking.
1. Monty Brown late 04 into 05 he was booked as a clear face and fans where really behind him. Then for no real reason they turned him heel. Just as he catches on they pull the rug from under him. So instead of crediting who could been there own big time star as in a guy who look like one and could talk. They instead favor Jarrett who at the time was just as bad if not worst as HHH 03.
2. Money management. So many EX WWE, ECW WCW talent was signed just based on that and had no real value. There is a fine line of signing a Jeff Hardy or Kurt Angle. Then to sign The Billy Gunn and ext. Giving Hogan all that money to not promote the product, couldn't wrestle, and was doing everything fans want him not to do.
3. Have a direction: From day one they never had there own image. They kept changing directions what seemed by the year. Always looking like another company. ECW (Twice first in 03 and again in 14), WCW, and WWE.
4. Character development: Ties in with Monty Brown. How many times hey someone turn face or heel. I mean Austin Aries and Abyss are the two biggest ones. Every time something starts to catch they turn them. Hard to gain stars and find out who is a draw if fans can't figure out who they are. The Pope is another who falls under this.
5. MARKETING: You can go anywhere if you do promote your shows and matches. This is why On the road shows never made money. Why PPVs didn't sell, and why ratings stood still in time. How you book BIG time matches is key as it can sell a PPV. But you have to know how too make the fans want it. One of the biggest examples is how fast Joe and Angle was booked. How the night after the 2010 Lockdown had a World title change with a no build dream match RVD vs. AJ. That could been money. Same as Joe vs. Hardy and Joe vs RVD both happened in random Impacts with no build. Angle Hardy same thing.
6. Making the PPV count. Ties in with 5 but how about booking. Adding to this Stuff like Angle wins the World title a week later after Sting wins it at BFG the big event. The results of Feast or fired being on Impact and not the show fans paid extra for. Bobby Roode winning the title just weeks after BFG. When if he won at BFG he had a bigger moment for himself and again making him more a star. The fact they kept doing this stuff was the reason why PPVs never sold because it was clear to fans that EVERYTHING happens on Impact. So why throw money at it? I don't think it was more the PPV market down turn compared too just bad booking.
7. Leadership. This company has had none. After Russo was canned the booking team been a reveling door.The fact Dixie was such a mark to Russo for some ungodly reason. The fact she brought in to anything people tells her. The whole big Surprise tweets that most cases not big. The fact she was an even bigger mark to herself then really understand how to run a wrestling business. The fact she had that "meeting on camera" shows a lot about how clueless she was. The fact she let Drug and drunk Jeff Hardy go out there on PPV against Sting. The fact fans the pay customers where told they where "extras" and told be a curtain way.
8. Caring about your companies image. The fact WHILE Jeff Hardy was dealing with Drug related courts they could put him in jail and they fact alone he was linked to it. Not a good image to have him as your World champion with that connection charged or not. The idea he was champion while in the middle of the courts was a bad image. Angle getting DWI and I believe while also World champion. Yet none of them where really punished for it. They all retained titles. Hardy finally was punished after the deal at Victory Road only because he pissed up so many fans in the building and looked like Sting just a much. Recent stuff the fact MVP used the "N" word. Taped show and still did not censor that. The fact back when Jarrett was on his reign of terror chants like "Drop the title." was being aired. Jarrett was getting heat but not the good kind.
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Post by Hit Girl on May 29, 2015 18:16:20 GMT -5
Yes, by not placing Dixie Carter in charge.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on May 29, 2015 18:40:49 GMT -5
Yes, by not placing Dixie Carter in charge. TNA would have died in the early 2000s without her because her parents bought the company to give her something to do. TNA were dead on it's feet after the weekly PPV fiasco where they were run and booked by experienced wrestling people like Mantell and the Jarretts.
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BlackoutCreature
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Post by BlackoutCreature on May 29, 2015 18:56:51 GMT -5
Yes, by not placing Dixie Carter in charge. TNA would have died in the early 2000s without her because her parents bought the company to give her something to do. TNA were dead on it's feet after the weekly PPV fiasco where they were run and booked by experienced wrestling people like Mantell and the Jarretts. Beyond a money injection though what has Dixie herself ever done to really help the promotion?
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Post by Starshine on May 29, 2015 19:31:27 GMT -5
No, but they had the chance to be a clear alternative. At this point they'd need a Ted Turner billionaire to compete with WWE's production levels and contracts. It was really after they started trying to outright copy WWE style and offer those contracts they couldn't afford that things went to hell.
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Post by xCompackx on May 29, 2015 19:35:43 GMT -5
TNA would have died in the early 2000s without her because her parents bought the company to give her something to do. TNA were dead on it's feet after the weekly PPV fiasco where they were run and booked by experienced wrestling people like Mantell and the Jarretts. Beyond a money injection though what has Dixie herself ever done to really help the promotion? I'll be completely fair to Dixie on one point: She seems to be really good at keeping talent happy. I mean, look at MVP's tweets before and after that conference call. While she appears to know nothing about business, is easily swindled by people like Vince Russo, and makes (at best) questionable decisions, Dixie Carter seems like a legitimately nice person. As for the thread topic, TNA's had lots of chances to succeed. Even in 2010 when TNA directly competed with Raw, they had a huge chance to show people what they could do, and they end up showing an impossible-to-see red cage match that ends with a guy dangling from the roof and a DQ finish. Hell, even their move to Destination America was a chance to reinvent the company and start fresh, but it was more of the same. How many times do you stick your hand in the fire before realizing it burns?
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Post by Urfarkendarf on May 29, 2015 19:42:16 GMT -5
Big is a BIG ask for this company at any time.
There was a time when they were clearly trending upward. Back when the knockouts were great and they had some sense of cohesion. There was really no chance of them ever getting to a point where they mattered to the mainstream in a viable way, simply because WWE has had that market cornered since they bought out WCW. But, TNA had a very viable chance to become a clear cut alternative and profitable #2, but the window was not open long and they pissed away good will when DIXIE (lets be frank, its almost entirely her fault) went to the well over and over again with acts and personalities who've only had minimal flash-in-the-pan success running a wrestling company.
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Emmet Russell
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Post by Emmet Russell on May 29, 2015 19:44:24 GMT -5
With all the buzz around The X-Division in 2004/5, I figured they could be. I had read stuff in magazines about how great TNA and their X-Division was with such talents as Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Chris Sabin, and I had to seek them out. I loved what I saw and thought they definitely have a chance with talent like that.
Then they lost focus on the X-Division. Back to shows headlined by WCW-2000-mindsetted Jeff Jarrett with main events full of run-ins, guitar shots and stupidity. They had a chance to feel different from WWE and instead they went for WWE-lite and hit it full on.
Then Angle came along ... and I doubted they could fail with such a huge signing. Spoilers; they did.
That was the last time I felt like they had a true chance. I dodn't think Hogan and Bischoff would do much other than make the their own personal play thing and that's exactly what happened. Everything that was working before they showed up - Desmond Wolfe, Pope, AJ as champ - was stripped of everything good and replaced with the Nasty Boys and Orlando Jordan.
I believe everyone is deserving of a second chance. TNA has had at least 20. They don't deserve support anymore as the underdog companpany with potential; they're the WWE-lite that never was.
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Post by Hit Girl on May 29, 2015 19:59:15 GMT -5
Yes, by not placing Dixie Carter in charge. TNA would have died in the early 2000s without her because her parents bought the company to give her something to do. TNA were dead on it's feet after the weekly PPV fiasco where they were run and booked by experienced wrestling people like Mantell and the Jarretts. They could have given her bee-guarding duties, or just follow the example of what Vito Corleone did with Fredo and send her to pick people up at airports. If they wanted their investment to actually make money, they could have appointed someone who actually had a clue.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
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Post by Sephiroth on May 29, 2015 20:54:17 GMT -5
In all honesty-signing Hogan could have really raised their mainstream profile a lot if they had done it right.
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Post by wwotbh on May 29, 2015 21:42:45 GMT -5
Not WWE-big but sure, plenty of chances. The fact that TNA at least at one point had so much money behind them and a TV deal with a top 20-25 network in a timeslot pulling 1.5m+ a week and weren't able to translate that into success in any field (live events -total failure, PPVs -total failure, merchandise sales -total failure) is mindboggling. The all around mismanagement of TNA is almost too much to comprehend.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 22:36:17 GMT -5
At a point in time, sure. TNA had a lot going for it and grew insanely quickly to where it was at a point, honestly - they just needed to know when to stop trying to rapidly expand and start spinning their wheels and steadily growing the brand from there. Instead they basically completely drove it into the ground and ruined every good thing they had going.
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