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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on May 29, 2015 23:05:51 GMT -5
Based of course on the recent news of ROH finally going national. If not then what would it take for that to happen? Could it ever?
I think much more important than ROH going national on a c level channel is the impact they've had on WWE. Of course when you consider the argument ECW helped kick off the Attitude Era and even WWE itself kind of credits them with this it's sort of a no contest.
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Post by bigjohnsons on May 29, 2015 23:31:34 GMT -5
Hell no , ECW had a damn cult following
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 29, 2015 23:38:04 GMT -5
No. Starting the Attitude era pretty much trumps everything RoH has done.
As for a lot of the signings are RoH graduates... A lot of Monday Night War guys were ECW graduates as well.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm on May 29, 2015 23:38:51 GMT -5
Hell no , ECW had a damn cult following And ROH doesn't?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 29, 2015 23:39:42 GMT -5
Hell no , ECW had a damn cult following And ROH doesn't? Well you generally don't hear people chant RoH in other companies.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on May 29, 2015 23:41:18 GMT -5
Based of course on the recent news of ROH finally going national. If not then what would it take for that to happen? Could it ever? I think much more important than ROH going national on a c level channel is the impact they've had on WWE. Of course when you consider the argument ECW helped kick off the Attitude Era and even WWE itself kind of credits them with this it's sort of a no contest. Even beyond the Attitude Era thing, there's also the stylistic change. If ECW didn't exist, it's safe to say hardcore wrestling would not have been a thing on a national scale in the US. There was the garbage wrestling style running around in small doses, but ECW really made the style popular in North America and made it a point, which changed the style of wrestling for its era. By contrast, Ring of Honor's style of wrestling was certainly increased for an impact on WWE's style...but at the same time, the ROH style took too much from the X-Division in TNA, which itself took too much the WCW cruiserweight style (which also had the mic-dropping no since it came from the ECW lucha libre/puro standouts they imported), to make it clear that if Ring of Honor never existed, the WWE's style probably would have evolved to what it is anyway.
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Eternal No-Hoper
Posts: 13,478
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Post by Malcolm on May 29, 2015 23:42:39 GMT -5
Well you generally don't hear people chant RoH in other companies. Good point. I just often read that RoH has a cult following. I guess I was wrong.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on May 29, 2015 23:45:23 GMT -5
Based of course on the recent news of ROH finally going national. If not then what would it take for that to happen? Could it ever? I think much more important than ROH going national on a c level channel is the impact they've had on WWE. Of course when you consider the argument ECW helped kick off the Attitude Era and even WWE itself kind of credits them with this it's sort of a no contest. Even beyond the Attitude Era thing, there's also the stylistic change. If ECW didn't exist, it's safe to say hardcore wrestling would not have been a thing on a national scale in the US. There was the garbage wrestling style running around in small doses, but ECW really made the style popular in North America and made it a point, which changed the style of wrestling for its era. By contrast, Ring of Honor's style of wrestling was certainly increased for an impact on WWE's style...but at the same time, the ROH style took too much from the X-Division in TNA, which itself took too much the WCW cruiserweight style (which also had the mic-dropping no since it came from the ECW lucha libre/puro standouts they imported), to make it clear that if Ring of Honor never existed, the WWE's style probably would have evolved to what it is anyway. Some great points. I agree with a lot and may have even included some in the OP. However, I can only type so much on my mobile.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 29, 2015 23:50:36 GMT -5
Well you generally don't hear people chant RoH in other companies. Good point. I just often read that RoH has a cult following. I guess I was wrong. They do... it's just kinda different. From my understanding talking to people that were much more original ECW fans then I was at the time it felt like you were part of these underground rebels in ECW. like you didn't go to the shows as a fan you went to the shows and became a part of this revolution, I never get the same vibe from the Hardcore RoH-bots... but I also never really looked them out or anything,
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on May 30, 2015 0:18:19 GMT -5
Good point. I just often read that RoH has a cult following. I guess I was wrong. They do... it's just kinda different. From my understanding talking to people that were much more original ECW fans then I was at the time it felt like you were part of these underground rebels in ECW. like you didn't go to the shows as a fan you went to the shows and became a part of this revolution, I never get the same vibe from the Hardcore RoH-bots... but I also never really looked them out or anything, Meh sounds like rose tinted glasses to me. I was an ECW fan when it was still around. Never got to go to a show, but some of my older brother's friends did. College kids. Not hardcore wrestling fans in the slightest. Just looking for an excuse to get drunk and chant at something. I've seen ROH live and it's the same. Sure you get some hardcores, but casuals are who really fill out the crowd and make a company successful.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 30, 2015 1:21:38 GMT -5
Nope and because even ROH guys who got hired were guys that worked in the other big indies and in Japan. ECW guys for the most part were ECW and that is it. Hell even guys like Steen and Generico have gone on record of saying that they consider themselves PWG guys more than ROH guys
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on May 30, 2015 3:09:35 GMT -5
No. Come on now.
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wgdj
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Post by wgdj on May 30, 2015 3:21:25 GMT -5
No. ECW was a pretty unique entity. It was such a different time. You had the big two, but ECW was a very credible third promotion. I don't recall anybody ever really thinking it would overtake either the WWF or WCW, but it held its own. The landscape has changed too much. WWE is so far ahead of any other promotion (and I don't mean in quality, necessarily) that even a strong number two would be a distant number two.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on May 30, 2015 6:46:13 GMT -5
By contrast, Ring of Honor's style of wrestling was certainly increased for an impact on WWE's style...but at the same time, the ROH style took too much from the X-Division in TNA, which itself took too much the WCW cruiserweight style (which also had the mic-dropping no since it came from the ECW lucha libre/puro standouts they imported), to make it clear that if Ring of Honor never existed, the WWE's style probably would have evolved to what it is anyway. People hugely overstate ECW's influence on WCW developing the cruiserweight division. Most of the Luchadores that came to WCW had worked a WCW/AAA event prior to their ECW runs, while ECW was in it's infancy, as had Chris Benoit and Konnan. I think Konnan deserves more of the credit than Paul Heyman, but he's not someone people like to give credit to because he's just so goshdarn abrasive.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on May 30, 2015 7:22:50 GMT -5
By contrast, Ring of Honor's style of wrestling was certainly increased for an impact on WWE's style...but at the same time, the ROH style took too much from the X-Division in TNA, which itself took too much the WCW cruiserweight style (which also had the mic-dropping no since it came from the ECW lucha libre/puro standouts they imported), to make it clear that if Ring of Honor never existed, the WWE's style probably would have evolved to what it is anyway. People hugely overstate ECW's influence on WCW developing the cruiserweight division. Most of the Luchadores that came to WCW had worked a WCW/AAA event prior to their ECW runs, while ECW was in it's infancy, as had Chris Benoit and Konnan. I think Konnan deserves more of the credit than Paul Heyman, but he's not someone people like to give credit to because he's just so goshdarn abrasive. Plus he owes Sean Oliver money!
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Post by eDemento2099 on May 30, 2015 9:50:55 GMT -5
Hell no!
If it wasn't for ECW and the imitation it inspired the WWF to so liberally take, the WWF would have gone out of business and Steve Austin may never have had his big breakout. (That breakout, along with the nWo, made wrestling a very, very hot commodity in the late 1990s.)
ECW popularized many styles of wrestling that weren't showcased in WWF and WCW. ROH focuses on one kind of wrestling, and wrestling fans have already been exposed to it thanks to the effect that ECW had on the industry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 10:05:59 GMT -5
Based of course on the recent news of ROH finally going national. If not then what would it take for that to happen? Could it ever? I think much more important than ROH going national on a c level channel is the impact they've had on WWE. Of course when you consider the argument ECW helped kick off the Attitude Era and even WWE itself kind of credits them with this it's sort of a no contest. Even beyond the Attitude Era thing, there's also the stylistic change. If ECW didn't exist, it's safe to say hardcore wrestling would not have been a thing on a national scale in the US. There was the garbage wrestling style running around in small doses, but ECW really made the style popular in North America and made it a point, which changed the style of wrestling for its era. By contrast, Ring of Honor's style of wrestling was certainly increased for an impact on WWE's style...but at the same time, the ROH style took too much from the X-Division in TNA, which itself took too much the WCW cruiserweight style (which also had the mic-dropping no since it came from the ECW lucha libre/puro standouts they imported), to make it clear that if Ring of Honor never existed, the WWE's style probably would have evolved to what it is anyway. I don't agree that ROH borrowed from the X-division. Far more Japanese influence than X-division. They had select matches that would fit the bill but ROH's definitive style was more technical wrestling with a strong style high impact competitive pace.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on May 30, 2015 13:01:38 GMT -5
Even beyond the Attitude Era thing, there's also the stylistic change. If ECW didn't exist, it's safe to say hardcore wrestling would not have been a thing on a national scale in the US. There was the garbage wrestling style running around in small doses, but ECW really made the style popular in North America and made it a point, which changed the style of wrestling for its era. By contrast, Ring of Honor's style of wrestling was certainly increased for an impact on WWE's style...but at the same time, the ROH style took too much from the X-Division in TNA, which itself took too much the WCW cruiserweight style (which also had the mic-dropping no since it came from the ECW lucha libre/puro standouts they imported), to make it clear that if Ring of Honor never existed, the WWE's style probably would have evolved to what it is anyway. I don't agree that ROH borrowed from the X-division. Far more Japanese influence than X-division. They had select matches that would fit the bill but ROH's definitive style was more technical wrestling with a strong style high impact competitive pace. Even then, the comparison between ROH's style and the X-Division has to be noted: In 2002 when ROH and TNA both started, the ROH style and the X-Division's top wrestlers were one and the same, and ROH's style was far more X-Division oriented than any technical wrestling/puro influence. Indeed, ROH really didn't start to develop the style until Rob Feinstein was kicked out of the company, and also only after ROH basically had all the X-Division style guys who those two years were built around either signed away to exclusive deals by TNA or ROH- or, on the other side, were exposed as the borderline yardtards they were (like most of the early Mikey Whipwreck trainees ROH had.) Either way, to deny that early Ring of Honor and TNA's X-Division started from the same place and branched forward from there is retconning that borders on TNA hate for the sake of TNA hatred.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 13:18:21 GMT -5
^^^*
As someone who watched a ton of ROH and TNA in their early days, I'd argue that ROH already had its style and that the X-Division was "ROH on speed". For the record, I did prefer the X Division style more, but ROH was better booked.
As for the op, I'd say with the scale/audience size that pro wrestling has now, ECW may still edge it out a little, but ROH is its closest equivalent as far as influence goes for today's wrestling. The thing I said earlier about the X-Division, and also the WWE putting more focus on the matches themselves being good are proof of that. There's also the influx of ROH guys to WWE (similar to ECW back in the day) and WWE's open acknowledgment of ROH (similar to ECW). WWE doesn't like to acknowledge other wrestling unless they have to, which means it means something in WWE lore/history so to speak. Proof of this is that when WWE mentions TNA stuff, they usually just say "on the indies" and when mentioning New Japan suff, they usually just say "in Japan". The openly cite ROH by name on a regular basis though, and have used their footage and photos for stuff.
I guess to sum up, I'm saying that it's not quite as influentiall as ECW was, but it's been the closest thing for the past 15 years.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on May 30, 2015 13:20:10 GMT -5
It's not a good time to compare. We have 15 years to digest what ECW's importance to history is. ROH is still going pretty strong and is arguably in the best shape it's been in its history. Let's see what kind of impact ROH has over the next few years as it has nationwide cable presence and it perhaps continues to work with New Japan.
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