SUPES
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,373
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Post by SUPES on Jun 30, 2015 17:57:58 GMT -5
Ambrose vs Rollins - MITB Including Cena-Owens II and Reigns vs Bryan among other matches and not including this epic match makes zero sense to me but, it's your opinion. RR Triple threat is a very very close second. That's because the Rollins vs. Ambrose ladder match dragged as proven by how much it killed the crowd. Completely unacceptable when the babyface challenger in a PPV main event, with the home state advantage, against his arch-nemesis, for the top prize in the business. Just because everything makes sense doesn't make it makes a substantial connection to the audience and is something that'll stand the test of time as a roller-coaster ride. (See: the nightmarish ROH hybrid creative direction under SBG and Jim Cornette)
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SUPES
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,373
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Post by SUPES on Jun 30, 2015 17:59:41 GMT -5
For someone who hardly watches NXT (just being honest), could a woman's match really be THAT good? The match was the closest thing WWE has done to a Danielson vs. McGuinness homage since HHH vs. D-Bry.
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Post by The Last Tweener on Jun 30, 2015 18:24:49 GMT -5
Ambrose vs Rollins - MITB Including Cena-Owens II and Reigns vs Bryan among other matches and not including this epic match makes zero sense to me but, it's your opinion. RR Triple threat is a very very close second. That's because the Rollins vs. Ambrose ladder match dragged as proven by how much it killed the crowd. Completely unacceptable when the babyface challenger in a PPV main event, with the home state advantage, against his arch-nemesis, for the top prize in the business. Just because everything makes sense doesn't make it makes a substantial connection to the audience and is something that'll stand the test of time as a roller-coaster ride. (See: the nightmarish ROH hybrid creative direction under SBG and Jim Cornette) The crowd was consumed by the 17362 finishers/kick-outs in Cena-Owens match, chanting "this is awesome" after each one. Other than that, crowds reaction never make or break matches for me. Most of them seem to be looking for finishers/kick-outs more than anything, and that's not what makes a great match. When I evaluate a match, I look at the match itself.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Jun 30, 2015 18:36:02 GMT -5
For someone who hardly watches NXT (just being honest), could a woman's match really be THAT good? Just watch it (incl prematch promo/entrances and standing ovations afterwards!)! It may even be "underhyped"/underrated if thats possible. Absolutely brillant
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 18:37:42 GMT -5
The Women's match is ridiculously over hyped.
I didn't enjoy it at all
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SUPES
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,373
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Post by SUPES on Jun 30, 2015 18:58:16 GMT -5
That's because the Rollins vs. Ambrose ladder match dragged as proven by how much it killed the crowd. Completely unacceptable when the babyface challenger in a PPV main event, with the home state advantage, against his arch-nemesis, for the top prize in the business. Just because everything makes sense doesn't make it makes a substantial connection to the audience and is something that'll stand the test of time as a roller-coaster ride. (See: the nightmarish ROH hybrid creative direction under SBG and Jim Cornette) The crowd was consumed by the 17362 finishers/kick-outs in Cena-Owens match, chanting "this is awesome" after each one. Other than that, crowds reaction never make or break matches for me. Most of them seem to be looking for finishers/kick-outs more than anything, and that's not what makes a great match. When I evaluate a match, I look at the match itself. Nearfalls aplenty are not the only things that can stimulate audiences. Minoru Suzuki and Hiroshi Tanahashi are notorious for breaking away from that formula and producing genuine classics in the process. I witnessed in person D-Bry and Roderick Strong in November 2005 pull off a 47 minute classic that barely had any nearfalls until about 35 minutes into it. In fact, the match felt about 30 minutes when it was over, and it actually wasn't until over 30 minutes had elapsed when Strong finally delivered his teased signature backbreaker that D-Bry had been evading, and when that happened, they had us in the palms of their hands.
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Post by The Last Tweener on Jun 30, 2015 19:44:31 GMT -5
The crowd was consumed by the 17362 finishers/kick-outs in Cena-Owens match, chanting "this is awesome" after each one. Other than that, crowds reaction never make or break matches for me. Most of them seem to be looking for finishers/kick-outs more than anything, and that's not what makes a great match. When I evaluate a match, I look at the match itself. Nearfalls aplenty are not the only things that can stimulate audiences. Minoru Suzuki and Hiroshi Tanahashi are notorious for breaking away from that formula and producing genuine classics in the process. I witnessed in person D-Bry and Roderick Strong in November 2005 pull off a 47 minute classic that barely had any nearfalls until about 35 minutes into it. In fact, the match felt about 30 minutes when it was over, and it actually wasn't until over 30 minutes had elapsed when Strong finally delivered his teased signature backbreaker that D-Bry had been evading, and when that happened, they had us in the palms of their hands. I hardly ever watch any non-WWE product, so I don't know about other crowds. But for WWE crowds, nearfalls and finishers seem to be the top stimulator, and by far.
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Post by sfvega on Jun 30, 2015 20:09:14 GMT -5
WWE crowds have been conditioned to that. Finishers are overdone in their big matches. If they did get away from that formula, I think they would find a lot of the same success. Flair/Steamboat was some of the best wrestling ever IMO, and it wasn't about them trading finishers for 15 minutes.
The Rumble 3-way has my vote. Good action, great storyline with Rollins flying off the top rope and piercing unhurtable Brock's armor. And then Rollins actually being made to beat Cena only to have Brock come back in and destroy like usual and retain. It was reminiscent of Rollins' match as Tyler Black against Nigel. Champ retains in familiar fashion at the end, but the match really gets the challenger over. That slow-mo of the elbow drop was amazing as well. Seth even missed the Phoenix by a litle, but Brock was in there so fast that it really covered for it. Great work by all 3 guys.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 21:28:01 GMT -5
The Women's match is ridiculously over hyped. I didn't enjoy it at all I kinda have to agree now It definitely was a great match with underdog story and had great Becky moments, but it wasn't what everyone was telling me it was
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 21:44:59 GMT -5
Sasha vs. Becky scratched every itch I look for in a wrestling match. It had a simple, sensible story, the match had a less is more approach, based around the simple idea of two high level competitors trying to lay claim to the most prestigious title a woman can hold in wrestling. Extra points as well just because the underdog nature of the NXT womens' division and their potential to really change the mainstream perception of womens wrestling being one of the most interesting things happening in the business right now. I loved Roman Reigns vs. Bryan and Roman vs. Brock this year as well.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 21:53:10 GMT -5
I wouldn't take it over the triple threat but why isn't the NXT women's four way mentioned? I'd call it better than every other match on that list.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 21:59:01 GMT -5
The Women's match is ridiculously over hyped. I didn't enjoy it at all I kinda have to agree now It definitely was a great match with underdog story and had great Becky moments, but it wasn't what everyone was telling me it was One of them spent a majority of the match working the arm only for it to have no consequence to the finish. Ridiculous.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jun 30, 2015 22:02:21 GMT -5
Sasha v. Becky is the best WWE match I've seen in ages. Probably my number two match of the year now.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,095
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Jun 30, 2015 22:08:07 GMT -5
I kinda have to agree now It definitely was a great match with underdog story and had great Becky moments, but it wasn't what everyone was telling me it was One of them spent a majority of the match working the arm only for it to have no consequence to the finish. Ridiculous. Not sure I understand this complaint. Yeah Becky lost the match so I guess her arm work was inconsequential but she was setting up for her finisher by working on the arm. Flair didn't stop working the leg in matches he was going to lose because he deemed it inconsequential. Unless I've completely misread your argument.
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Post by Widow's Peak on Jun 30, 2015 22:23:04 GMT -5
I picked Reigns/Lesnar, but honestly I wouldn't have a problem with anyone who picked Owens/Cena, Lynch/Banks or the Rumble Triple Threat.
For as much whining as a lot of us have done about the product this year (and much of the whining is deserved), there have been a lot of really good to great matches in 2015.
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Post by The Last Tweener on Jul 1, 2015 4:59:07 GMT -5
WWE crowds have been conditioned to that. Finishers are overdone in their big matches. If they did get away from that formula, I think they would find a lot of the same success. Flair/Steamboat was some of the best wrestling ever IMO, and it wasn't about them trading finishers for 15 minutes. Agree, especially in Cena's matches. Ambrose and Rollins are the two wrestlers that, I think, are trying their best to get away from that and respect the tradition of the business. I believe their 20 minute match at EC was the first major title match since forever where the first finisher in the match wins it. Their 35+ minute match at MITB had only two finishers. Compared to, for example, Cena-Owens 20 minute match at MITB which had 7 finishers and 14 kick-outs at 2 (roughly, counted them myself). Maybe there are other examples than Ambrose-Rollins, I don't know.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Member is Online
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Post by Bo Rida on Jul 1, 2015 7:17:54 GMT -5
One of them spent a majority of the match working the arm only for it to have no consequence to the finish. Ridiculous. Not sure I understand this complaint. Yeah Becky lost the match so I guess her arm work was inconsequential but she was setting up for her finisher by working on the arm. Flair didn't stop working the leg in matches he was going to lose because he deemed it inconsequential. Unless I've completely misread your argument. If he meant Sasha spent the match working the arm it makes even less sense. Becky struggled to climb to the top rope due to her bad arm and that gave Sasha the chance to bring her crashing down to the mat with an armbreaker which she then transitioned directly into the finish.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Jul 1, 2015 7:41:17 GMT -5
I kinda have to agree now It definitely was a great match with underdog story and had great Becky moments, but it wasn't what everyone was telling me it was One of them spent a majority of the match working the arm only for it to have no consequence to the finish. Ridiculous. Top rope armbreaker and Banks Statement feat.locking in the arm was the finish...what do you exactly mean!?!?
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,095
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Jul 1, 2015 8:06:38 GMT -5
Not sure I understand this complaint. Yeah Becky lost the match so I guess her arm work was inconsequential but she was setting up for her finisher by working on the arm. Flair didn't stop working the leg in matches he was going to lose because he deemed it inconsequential. Unless I've completely misread your argument. If he meant Sasha spent the match working the arm it makes even less sense. Becky struggled to climb to the top rope due to her bad arm and that gave Sasha the chance to bring her crashing down to the mat with an armbreaker which she then transitioned directly into the finish. That's why I assumed he meant Becky because nothing can be less inconsequential to the finish than Sasha's arm work since, as you said, it led directly to the finish. Hell the arm work in that match actually helped to cover up the one botch in the match (when Becky didn't catch Sasha following the suicide dive).
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Post by Some Guy on Jul 1, 2015 9:57:10 GMT -5
Adam Rose vs Fandango
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