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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jul 1, 2015 15:51:15 GMT -5
I'm just not a fan of the style. Lots of fancy moves but none of them matter because they never result in the finish. He's gonna kick out of a bunch of shit and then win with the exception of that first Owens match. He's relying on the big moves because he feels like he has to do it to keep up with the rest of the roster and stay relevant. It's the Micheal Bay style of wrestling. It's frustrating because he's better than that. He doesn't have to do this, he's John freaking Cena. He can control the crowd with ease but for some reason, he feels the need to kill himself. His matches are like bad ROH matches now. Why shouldn't Cena (or anyone really) try to keep up with the rest of the roster? If John Cena didn't attempt to switch things up "because he's John Cena", people would just complain that he's "lazy". I'm sure most of the WWE roster wishes they had the talent and/or screen time to put on "Bad RoH matches". It was only when Cena started pulling moves out of his ass that people actually started appreciating him as an in ring worker. Well, he can do whatever the f*** he wants. Not seeing what that has to do with my opinion of the style or when I said he couldn't do that. I understand why he's doing it and it's effective but it's caused me, personally, to stop enjoying his work. What he's providing is not what I want out of my wrestling. |
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Fauxnaki
Unicron
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Post by Fauxnaki on Jul 1, 2015 16:06:40 GMT -5
Wait. Cena has done a Canadian Destroyer? No freakin' way?! When did this happen? I have to see that. I think he's talking about the Yoshi Tonic or else, I missed something too. i really should of done some research but yeah yoshi tonic is what i meant. |
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jul 1, 2015 16:06:53 GMT -5
I'm just not a fan of the style. Lots of fancy moves but none of them matter because they never result in the finish. He's gonna kick out of a bunch of shit and then win with the exception of that first Owens match. He's relying on the big moves because he feels like he has to do it to keep up with the rest of the roster and stay relevant. It's the Micheal Bay style of wrestling. It's frustrating because he's better than that. He doesn't have to do this, he's John freaking Cena. He can control the crowd with ease but for some reason, he feels the need to kill himself. His matches are like bad ROH matches now. Why shouldn't Cena (or anyone really) try to keep up with the rest of the roster? If John Cena didn't attempt to switch things up "because he's John Cena", people would just complain that he's "lazy". I'm sure most of the WWE roster wishes they had the talent and/or screen time to put on "Bad RoH matches". It was only when Cena started pulling moves out of his ass that people actually started appreciating him as an in ring worker. I kinda of see what he's talking about though. I mean it's not really about "keeping up with the rest of the roster", it's about finding the balance between having snorefest matches like Sheamus/Orton that got heckled to hell and good indie matches. Good indie matches don't have a bunch of no-selling and dudes using 50 moves and flips so they can look cool. And anybody who still thinks of Cena as lol5movesofdoom hasn't watched since 2007, I mean he's not The Great Muta or anything but he's good. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 16:10:09 GMT -5
Cena can never win with you dudes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 16:44:37 GMT -5
"GUYS LOOK I CAN DO ALL THESE MOVES WITH ABSOLUTELY NO REGARD FOR IN-RING PSYCHOLOGY I'M A GOOD WRESTLER RIGHT GUYS???"
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Jul 1, 2015 16:47:57 GMT -5
Wait. Cena has done a Canadian Destroyer? No freakin' way?! When did this happen? I have to see that. I think he's talking about the Yoshi Tonic or else, I missed something too. That makes more sense. I do wish he'd stop doing that though 'cos it's the sloppiest looking Yoshi Tonic I've ever seen. |
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Post by The Last Tweener on Jul 1, 2015 16:57:46 GMT -5
Exactly.
The two matches Cena had with Owens are prime examples of that, especially the second.
I'm relatively new to wrestling and I can see when a match has some sort of structure and when it's only moves forced together.
Most of Cena's recent 'big matches' are the later.
The problem is : This seems to be the #1 crowd stimulator, and it's not even close.
I will always prefer matches with excellent psychology and structure (Like Punk vs Bryan, Orton vs Rollins, Ambrose vs Rollins ... etc.)
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jul 1, 2015 17:05:57 GMT -5
I'd actually like Cena to have one or two of the US open matches with less credible guys like Fandango or Rose and have these matches a lot less close. So versus Rose, we wouldn't get Rose kicking out of an AA or hitting his finish on Cena, just Cena dispatching him in 4 to 5 minutes. But against a more credible opponent like Cesaro it can be more of a finisher fest kind of thing.
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Death by Pickles!
Don Corleone
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Post by Death by Pickles! on Jul 1, 2015 17:06:10 GMT -5
Cena can never win with you dudes. What board is this? |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 1, 2015 17:07:51 GMT -5
I'd actually like Cena to have one or two of the US open matches with less credible guys like Fandango or Rose and have these matches a lot less close. So versus Rose, we wouldn't get Rose kicking out of an AA or hitting his finish on Cena, just Cena dispatching him in 4 to 5 minutes. But against a more credible opponent like Cesaro it can be more of a finisher fest kind of thing. I disagree. I think the lower card guys need to have competitive matches as well or else there's no point. If they show that they can hang with a big fish like Cena, it goes a long way in restoring their credibility and making fans care about them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 17:52:06 GMT -5
All Cena has to do to get fans on his side is beat Reigns a bunch of times in a row. The crowd would love it. Cena would even get cheered on PPV.
This is the only way for him to finally get that yay in the yay/boo punches.
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Post by bigjohnsons on Jul 1, 2015 18:59:59 GMT -5
Wrestling evolves. 30 years ago a DDT would end a match, now people do a ton of them. I think it is due in part to the younger generation liking more fast paced things, which is why so many characters with ADD are so popular for example. I have ADD and now I wanna become a wrestling superstar  |
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Jul 1, 2015 19:45:46 GMT -5
Within all of the discussion of psychology and storytelling and what-have-you...
Has anyone considered that John Cena was just bored and saw his US Title run to do some new things with some new talent rather than just being the Living WWE Avatar?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 19:57:14 GMT -5
I'm just not a fan of the style. Lots of fancy moves but none of them matter because they never result in the finish. He's gonna kick out of a bunch of shit and then win with the exception of that first Owens match. He's relying on the big moves because he feels like he has to do it to keep up with the rest of the roster and stay relevant. It's the Micheal Bay style of wrestling. It's frustrating because he's better than that. He doesn't have to do this, he's John freaking Cena. He can control the crowd with ease but for some reason, he feels the need to kill himself. His matches are like bad ROH matches now. Yep, he's basically TNA Kurt Angle or Davey Richards now. Tons of high spots, false finishes, and no-selling. I remember when that style used to be mocked for being indy garbage (deservedly so). Now the top star in the industry is doing it. Not a good sign long-term. |
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SUPES
Don Corleone
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Post by SUPES on Jul 1, 2015 20:38:00 GMT -5
The story of these matches is incredibly obvious to grasp. Cena is being pushed to his limits, causing him as the long-time veteran to expand his arsenal and even have to hammer his finishers more than once.
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rippo
Bubba Ho-Tep
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Post by rippo on Jul 1, 2015 21:28:25 GMT -5
Step 1. Do random Cruiserweight Indy moves to show how surprising and adaptive you are. Step 2. Exchange Kick outs atleast 10 times. It's automatically a great match if there's lots and lots of kick outs! Step 3. Have the commentators put over said match to convince the audience what we're really seeing is a true 5-star Classic. Step 4. Throw in a random springboard stunner and end the match abruptly afterwards with an AA. Step 5. Put over the Indy darling as a tough kid in an attempt to gain acceptance from the audience that hates you. Step 6. Profit?  |
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 1, 2015 21:48:07 GMT -5
A big issue is how over the years WWE has trained audiences to only react to certain things, namely the opening riff of somebody's theme song, their catchphrase, and their finisher. They've also spent years making it clear that big matches absolutely cannot end with only one finisher, which is not something unique to WWE, but a "Wrestlemania main event" style match tends to revolve around "hit finishers at all costs". Cena does that style very well, but, for me, it's just not a particularly entertaining style.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 2, 2015 8:32:52 GMT -5
Where on earth is this idea coming from that Cena's recent matches have no psychology? The psychology IS based around the big moves, and you may not like that style of match, but Cena for one does a really good job of making it seem like he really believes each move might get the win, even though it never does (I love how he's started fighting with the ref). Most NXT main event matches for like a year have had the same basic psychology, which is part of why Cena has such awesome matches with NXT guys.
Bugs me that people use that criticism about something like the springboard stunner, which couldn't make more sense from a psychology standpoint: he always catches his opponents off guard with it.
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Essential1
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Post by Essential1 on Jul 2, 2015 9:02:10 GMT -5
Cena is a even bigger weirdo now than he used to be. I can appreciate him wanting to change things up by how about learning to mat wrestle better? what's the point of doing a bunch of moves that don't even suit his style just so people can go "!LOL!"
Winning the US title would be like The Rock in 2000 winning the European Title and defending it against Mideon,Taka Michinoku,Gangrel,Malenko etc. Having random matches each week where you know he is going to win while busting out cruiserweight moves.
Cenas US Title reign doesn't interest me. It's a low belt which is always in the background of the title holders matches or feuds. Kevin Owens says he wants that US title but I don't buy that. It's less important than the NXT title and is just a flag for Cena to walk around with until they put him back in the WWE title picture. It was fun for awhile, but the open challenges haven't really done anything for the belt. I can see in a years time it being back to where it was before or maybe retired. That's one good thing Owens could do by winning it from Cena.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jul 2, 2015 9:14:17 GMT -5
The thing about it is, if Cena wants to work in new "big moves" into his arsenal, that's awesome. But he's a guy who has no business doing the Yoshi Tonic or a springboard anything. There's a whole wide world out there of really cool, devastating looking power moves for a guy like him. Why try to wrestle like the cruiserweight you clearly aren't?
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