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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jul 1, 2015 23:43:03 GMT -5
Same for football. Same for hockey, boxing, martial arts, Cirque du Soleil, swimming, eating, smoking, drinking, shall I go on? I'm going to go ahead and guess, without researching it, that people that participate in all of those things tend to have a longer life span than WWF/E wrestlers on average. That can't really be proven since that's a lot of stuff to test against wrestlers, but considering how wrestlers seem to have a sub 50% chance of actually reaching age 50? (If they don't now, they sure used to 15-20 years ago) I feel fine with that. "It can't really be proven, but I'm gonna go ahead and idly speculate on it anyways, pretending it proves my point". The scientific method is a wonderful thing.
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Eternally Confused
Posts: 13,478
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Post by Malcolm on Jul 1, 2015 23:47:27 GMT -5
MMA is people actually trying to maim each other with unpadded hands and feet. Should that stop existing, too?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 1, 2015 23:50:22 GMT -5
But what will I eat, sleep, and breathe if I don't have DIS BUSINESS? Another business?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 23:52:51 GMT -5
I'm going to go ahead and guess, without researching it, that people that participate in all of those things tend to have a longer life span than WWF/E wrestlers on average. That can't really be proven since that's a lot of stuff to test against wrestlers, but considering how wrestlers seem to have a sub 50% chance of actually reaching age 50? (If they don't now, they sure used to 15-20 years ago) I feel fine with that. "It can't really be proven, but I'm gonna go ahead and idly speculate on it anyways, pretending it proves my point". The scientific method is a wonderful thing. You don't need someone to prove that more wrestlers die before 50 than football players right? Or hockey players before 50? or boxing? good lord, SWIMMING? Really? More swimmers die than wrestlers from their swimming injuries? Sometimes common sense is enough I hope. It can't be proven because that would take a bunch of numbers that I'm not going to collect for a stupid message board post. You feel otherwise? Which do you feel need to be proven? After a point your life should be enough to acknowledge pattern recognition. Pattern recognition is one of those things you take when you're placed in advanced classes or take an IQ test back when you're a kid. You know those people that say "well you're just guessing" or "you're just stereotyping"? Those people aren't terribly bright.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jul 1, 2015 23:56:24 GMT -5
"It can't really be proven, but I'm gonna go ahead and idly speculate on it anyways, pretending it proves my point". The scientific method is a wonderful thing. You don't need someone to prove that more wrestlers die before 50 than football players right? Or hockey players before 50? or boxing? good lord, SWIMMING? Really? More swimmers die than wrestlers from their swimming injuries? Sometimes common sense is enough I hope. It can't be proven because that would take a bunch of numbers that I'm not going to collect for a stupid message board post. You feel otherwise? Which do you feel need to be proven? After a point your life should be enough to acknowledge pattern recognition. The second you can back up your sanctimony with numbers, I'll join you in the "shut it down" club. Until then? Guess what, when you do something athletic, you take a risk. Is that risk higher for pro wrestlers than say....tennis players? Sure, but it's a risk they chose to take. So I'm gonna watch and not lose a wink of sleep.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 0:00:13 GMT -5
You don't need someone to prove that more wrestlers die before 50 than football players right? Or hockey players before 50? or boxing? good lord, SWIMMING? Really? More swimmers die than wrestlers from their swimming injuries? Sometimes common sense is enough I hope. It can't be proven because that would take a bunch of numbers that I'm not going to collect for a stupid message board post. You feel otherwise? Which do you feel need to be proven? After a point your life should be enough to acknowledge pattern recognition. The second you can back up your sanctimony with numbers, I'll join you in the "shut it down" club. Until then? Guess what, when you do something athletic, you take a risk. Is that risk higher for pro wrestlers than say....tennis players? Sure, but it's a risk they chose to take. So I'm gonna watch and not lose a wink of sleep. Of course it's a risk they choose to take, that's the whole point of this thread. "Is it a risk anyone should take? Is it too much of a risk?". Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. That's the point of this thread. I'm obviously not saying "lets shut down wrestling". I said something earlier about that, since I'm some guy posting on a wrestling board with a bunch of posts. I'm asking for discussion. As for asking for numbers, that'd be impossible. There's minor and major injuries for wrestlers that couldn't possibly be recorded in that kind of way. Nor could they for any other sport. You don't need numbers to say that football is more dangerous than monopoly though do you? And why not? That's being silly.
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Mackenzie Gorn
Don Corleone
I want my personal title back, but I don't know how!
AND THE WAVE OF POSSESIONS DEVOLVE INTO A CHEVY!
Posts: 2,036
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Post by Mackenzie Gorn on Jul 2, 2015 0:02:29 GMT -5
Actual human beings have had their actual lives shortened because of professional wrestling. It really is hard to justify. Adults made a choice to be athletes. It really isn't.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 0:03:32 GMT -5
Actual human beings have had their actual lives shortened because of professional wrestling. It really is hard to justify. Adults made a choice to be athletes. It really isn't. We need to shut down all these lawsuits in sports if that's an argument.
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Mackenzie Gorn
Don Corleone
I want my personal title back, but I don't know how!
AND THE WAVE OF POSSESIONS DEVOLVE INTO A CHEVY!
Posts: 2,036
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Post by Mackenzie Gorn on Jul 2, 2015 0:08:09 GMT -5
Adults made a choice to be athletes. It really isn't. We need to shut down all these lawsuits in sports if that's an argument. Not really. You asked a sweeping question SHOULD WRESTLING EXIST. I gave my opinion and answered. I stated facts and that is my opinion relating to the aforementioned question.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 0:11:02 GMT -5
We need to shut down all these lawsuits in sports if that's an argument. Not really. You asked a sweeping question SHOULD WRESTLING EXIST. I gave my opinion and answered. I stated facts and that is my opinion relating to the aforementioned question. Maybe not all sports, but your answer definitely resolves all problems any wrestlers have as wrestlers. Which...maybe it should. Like when wrestlers complain they got concussions "Well you knew the risks". I don't know if that's correct or not. As someone that's watching wrestling for 30 years it seems obvious, for them maybe not when they're 20 years old or something. You and I can say "Duh, getting dropped on your head and getting smacked on it is going to hurt". Which again it's easy to apply to everyone. Just depends what kind of responsibility you're willing to assume is commonplace.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 2, 2015 0:11:26 GMT -5
Actual human beings have had their actual lives shortened because of professional wrestling. It really is hard to justify. Adults made a choice to be athletes. It really isn't. I mean, I got arguments against that, but when we cut to the chase, which side you're on really just depends on whether you think liberty or harm is more important in this case. I am not really moved by the free choice argument; doesn't seem as important to me as the safety thing. You clearly disagree. Things like this always gotta end in a shrug. Conflicting values. <shrug> But I do think the more pertinent question is whether wrestling should EVER have existed. That's more interesting. Has it done more good or harm overall?
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jul 2, 2015 0:14:03 GMT -5
You've gotta love an debate where one side literally can't see "free will" as a compelling argument.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 2, 2015 0:15:56 GMT -5
You've gotta love an debate where one side literally can't see "free will" as a compelling argument. Oh pish, you can say the same thing about the side who "can't see people dying as a compelling argument." They're not arguments; they're values.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 0:16:01 GMT -5
Adults made a choice to be athletes. It really isn't. I mean, I got arguments against that, but when we cut to the chase, which side you're on really just depends on whether you think liberty or harm is more important in this case. I am not really moved by the free choice argument; doesn't seem as important to me as the safety thing. You clearly disagree. Things like this always gotta end in a shrug. Conflicting values. <shrug> But I do think the more pertinent question is whether wrestling should EVER have existed. That's more interesting. Has it done more good or harm overall? That's what I'm looking for in this thread. The good vs harm in the end is just entertainment vs injury/fatality I would think. How much entertaining is worth how many people being hurt/killed? We can say again "Well people in sports get hurt/killed" and indeed they do. They don't to the degree we see in wrestling. Sometimes the "killed" part takes time to show fruition, but we see it. It's pretty bad if you watch the WWE network and just view a PPV from the 90s, then consider how many of those guys should be in their 40s-early 50s but instead are dead. I do understand that a fair amount of that is drug use and we can't blame that on wrestling/bumps etc. So that's another x factor. How much of that can we blame on wrestling? Well on the culture at the time we can blame a lot of it. But in general? Not much.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jul 2, 2015 0:18:26 GMT -5
I mean, I got arguments against that, but when we cut to the chase, which side you're on really just depends on whether you think liberty or harm is more important in this case. I am not really moved by the free choice argument; doesn't seem as important to me as the safety thing. You clearly disagree. Things like this always gotta end in a shrug. Conflicting values. <shrug> But I do think the more pertinent question is whether wrestling should EVER have existed. That's more interesting. Has it done more good or harm overall? That's what I'm looking for in this thread. The good vs harm in the end is just entertainment vs injury/fatality I would think. How much entertaining is worth how many people being hurt/killed? We can say again "Well people in sports get hurt/killed" and indeed they do. They don't to the degree we see in wrestling. Sometimes the "killed" part takes time to show fruition, but we see it. "They don't to the degree we see in wrestling" says the guy with still nothing to back it up but his own opinion....stop stating things as facts that you admittedly can't prove. If you want a debate, come at it honestly.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Jul 2, 2015 0:20:02 GMT -5
"Should Tosh.0 Exist?"
Hell to the no is my answer to that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 0:20:27 GMT -5
That's what I'm looking for in this thread. The good vs harm in the end is just entertainment vs injury/fatality I would think. How much entertaining is worth how many people being hurt/killed? We can say again "Well people in sports get hurt/killed" and indeed they do. They don't to the degree we see in wrestling. Sometimes the "killed" part takes time to show fruition, but we see it. "They don't to the degree we see in wrestling" says the guy with still nothing to back it up but his own opinion....stop stating things as facts that you admittedly can't prove. If you want a debate, come at it honestly. I'm not going to spend hours getting numbers proving that wrestlers die early. You either see it or you don't.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jul 2, 2015 0:20:56 GMT -5
"They don't to the degree we see in wrestling" says the guy with still nothing to back it up but his own opinion....stop stating things as facts that you admittedly can't prove. If you want a debate, come at it honestly. I'm not going to spend hours getting numbers proving that wrestlers die early. You either see it or you don't. Yeah, why waste time with "Facts", when appealing to emotion is so much easier?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 0:21:54 GMT -5
I'm not going to spend hours getting numbers proving that wrestlers die early. You either see it or you don't. Yeah, why waste time with "Facts", when appealing to emotion is so much easier? So you feel wrestlers don't die early regularly? Fortunately it has calmed down in the last 10 years, it used to be horribly common for the wrestlers of the 90s. I was commenting above on that whether it was the lifestyle or the drug use that went from the 80s-90s. ex the types like big boss man, british bulldog, mr perfect, rick rude, those types that had no reason to die and didn't die due to wrestling specific injuries.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jul 2, 2015 0:24:02 GMT -5
Yeah, why waste time with "Facts", when appealing to emotion is so much easier? So you feel wrestlers don't die early regularly? No, they do, that's the only actual fact you've stated. But you've shown me NOTHING but your opinion to prove they do it at a higher rate than other athlete. Absolutely nothing beyond "Well, I see it, don't you?" EDIT: Or, I should say "At a rate higher enough to lend validity to shutting down the entire institution", is probably a better wording.
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