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Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 6, 2015 23:37:45 GMT -5
Vince DIDN'T say he was too swiss. He only said he's failing to connect 'maybe' because he's a Swiss. He also did put over him as a great physical experiment. People always look for negatives Anyway, he deserves a push. He would have been the top choice for initial MITB 2014, but Bryan's injury threw the spanners to work and they had to make it a world title match after he has qualified. People go to "too Swiss" because it is a bullshit excuse. Cesaro was over like a sumbitch until they killed his face turn, took away the Giant Swing, paired him with Heyman who only shouted about Brock and then booked him to lose for months. That is why Austin called him on it and Vince stumbled over "too Swiss". So yeah, 2Swiss deserves to be used as it is.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 6, 2015 23:41:49 GMT -5
Cesaro should be in at least the same kind of position as Sheamus/Orton/Ambrose... A regular fixture of the main shows, wins more often than not, usually has a feud for the PPV... that kind of thing. That's perfectly reasonable if he's not directly in the world title scene.
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Johnny Flamingo
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Jul 6, 2015 23:44:45 GMT -5
I just dont agree that he should be pushed. I was in the Silverdome for Wrestlemania XXX and after he eliminated Big Show we erupted in cheers that we didn't have to watch him anymore. If he was really over we would have booed the finish due to being upset about him not being in the ring anymore.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Jul 6, 2015 23:46:57 GMT -5
Vince DIDN'T say he was too swiss. He only said he's failing to connect 'maybe' because he's a Swiss. He also did put over him as a great physical experiment. People always look for negatives Anyway, he deserves a push. He would have been the top choice for initial MITB 2014, but Bryan's injury threw the spanners to work and they had to make it a world title match after he has qualified. Berlynwright Huh? Too German.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Jul 7, 2015 0:00:22 GMT -5
What more do they need? Promo skills. He can't really talk, and they want a better talker than that for a face near the top of the card. Cesaro needs a hook to his character, he needs a schtick. Right now he's Scott Hall, he needs to be Razor Ramon. Once the bell rings, there's no one better, but he does need something more solid as a personality to reach the top. Unless, they go full-bore with it and push him as the ultimate wrestling machine, but they never do that for faces anymore. Yup I agree here. He needs something of a quirk or characteristic that he can latch onto to give him something to talk about. Basically if Cesaro had a 5 minute promo with Bad News Barrett, he'll need to spend the majority of the time talking about BNB because he can't talk about himself.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Jul 7, 2015 0:45:20 GMT -5
Vince DIDN'T say he was too swiss. He only said he's failing to connect 'maybe' because he's a Swiss. He also did put over him as a great physical experiment. People always look for negatives Anyway, he deserves a push. He would have been the top choice for initial MITB 2014, but Bryan's injury threw the spanners to work and they had to make it a world title match after he has qualified. People go to "too Swiss" because it is a bullshit excuse. Cesaro was over like a sumbitch until they killed his face turn, took away the Giant Swing, paired him with Heyman who only shouted about Brock and then booked him to lose for months. That is why Austin called him on it and Vince stumbled over "too Swiss". So yeah, 2Swiss deserves to be used as it is. But the problem about that, is that by just focusing about Heyman, it ignores another, equal fact: It's not even "JUST" that Cesaro isn't a particularly good promo. Cesaro not being a particularly good promo is one thing, but in addition to his own failing with promos, Cesaro's had FOUR DIFFERENT managers at some point or another during his WWE run (Aksana, Zeb Colter, Paul Heyman, and Natalya- and that depends on whatever Adam Rose was for the two of them, to boot which would make it five.) Natalya didn't cut many promos for Cesaro and Kidd, but the message is there: Cesaro's not even JUST "not a good promo", but he's even a bad promo when he's given a manager to make his promos work- a far more damning problem for Cesaro's charisma (and Heyman and Colter were two of the best male managers in the company, with Aksana being no slouch on the mic, albeit nowhere near their league). Even with those, it seems clear- the times when Cesaro clicked the best were in tag teams- whether it was Cesaro/Kidd or The Real Americans...and if it goes to indy work: even on the indy scene, Castagnoli was always at his best with the Kings of Wrestling, so it may be as simple as "Cesaro is an otherworldly tag team specialist, but he JUST DOESN'T HAVE IT to be a top singles guy."
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jul 7, 2015 5:24:00 GMT -5
Holy crap I forgot how impressive that was. I mean I knew it was but he just scoops Big Show up in 1 go like he's a damn cruiserweight. I'd love to see Cesaro booked as the one wrestler that can outwrestle Brock Lesnar. That could explain why Heyman got close to Cesaro last year, to keep him away from Lesnar, to keep him on a path that would take him as far away from Lesnar as he could. I would absolutely love this and really it would be a good in-character reason for why Heyman never really put over Cesaro, but can't see it happening. But the problem about that, is that by just focusing about Heyman, it ignores another, equal fact: It's not even "JUST" that Cesaro isn't a particularly good promo. Cesaro not being a particularly good promo is one thing, but in addition to his own failing with promos, Cesaro's had FOUR DIFFERENT managers at some point or another during his WWE run (Aksana, Zeb Colter, Paul Heyman, and Natalya- and that depends on whatever Adam Rose was for the two of them, to boot which would make it five.) Natalya didn't cut many promos for Cesaro and Kidd, but the message is there: Cesaro's not even JUST "not a good promo", but he's even a bad promo when he's given a manager to make his promos work- a far more damning problem for Cesaro's charisma (and Heyman and Colter were two of the best male managers in the company, with Aksana being no slouch on the mic, albeit nowhere near their league). Even with those, it seems clear- the times when Cesaro clicked the best were in tag teams- whether it was Cesaro/Kidd or The Real Americans...and if it goes to indy work: even on the indy scene, Castagnoli was always at his best with the Kings of Wrestling, so it may be as simple as "Cesaro is an otherworldly tag team specialist, but he JUST DOESN'T HAVE IT to be a top singles guy." Aksana was terrible. Natalya never did anything but stand there and look sulky or pretty. Heyman barely said a word about Cesaro after his initial "King of Swing" introduction. Zeb Colter was the only one who did his job as a manager for Cesaro and guess what, it got him over- but given he was doing the same job for Swagger it's not like they could have him invest fully into Cesaro or it'd mess up the team too soon. Cesaro's a bad promo. He's my favourite on the roster but I can admit he sucks at promos. However he does have charisma and connectivity. If he had a manager who actually did the damn job of talking for him instead of vaguely standing there or talking about other people, he could easily get by on being a man of few words. But it'd absolutely do him favours to take some more promo or acting classes.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 7, 2015 5:26:44 GMT -5
Nattie was there because she's Kidd's wife, she doesn't count. Without Tyson, her character is not invested in Cesaro at all.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 7, 2015 5:39:57 GMT -5
Me when WWE won't give Cesaro a rightful Push
Feel free to save this. I feel like it will come in handy in the future. Quite happy with how it turned out.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 7, 2015 5:42:17 GMT -5
Me when WWE won't give Cesaro a rightful Push
Feel free to save this. I feel like it will come in handy in the future. Quite happy with how it turned out. Sorry... When you could probably flip a table that size without breaking a sweat, then just miming it is frankly insulting.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 7, 2015 5:43:34 GMT -5
Me when WWE won't give Cesaro a rightful Push
Feel free to save this. I feel like it will come in handy in the future. Quite happy with how it turned out. Sorry... When you could probably flip a table that size without breaking a sweat, then just miming it is frankly insulting. He didn't mime it, he tried upending it, you can hear it and see they were expecting it to come up, it was either glued to the ground or too connected to flip, but he damn sure tried. And it was hilarious in the end.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 7, 2015 5:45:16 GMT -5
Oh OK. Damn BDK contractors and their unflippable tables.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Jul 7, 2015 9:52:41 GMT -5
Me when WWE won't give Cesaro a rightful Push
Feel free to save this. I feel like it will come in handy in the future. Quite happy with how it turned out. Why is that person in the corner wearing a mask?
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Post by Hypnosis on Jul 7, 2015 10:02:33 GMT -5
Me when WWE won't give Cesaro a rightful Push
Feel free to save this. I feel like it will come in handy in the future. Quite happy with how it turned out. Why is that person in the corner wearing a mask? Chikara has more masked wrestlers than WWE because it's based on lucha libre.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jul 7, 2015 10:04:17 GMT -5
Me when WWE won't give Cesaro a rightful Push
Feel free to save this. I feel like it will come in handy in the future. Quite happy with how it turned out. Why is that person in the corner wearing a mask? That is Tursas.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 10:05:14 GMT -5
What more do they need? Promo skills. He can't really talk, and they want a better talker than that for a face near the top of the card. Cesaro needs a hook to his character, he needs a schtick. Right now he's Scott Hall, he needs to be Razor Ramon. Once the bell rings, there's no one better, but he does need something more solid as a personality to reach the top. Unless, they go full-bore with it and push him as the ultimate wrestling machine, but they never do that for faces anymore. Yup I agree here. He needs something of a quirk or characteristic that he can latch onto to give him something to talk about. Basically if Cesaro had a 5 minute promo with Bad News Barrett, he'll need to spend the majority of the time talking about BNB because he can't talk about himself. Simple. Have him talk about his colossal strength and how no matter how big and how strong you are, he's still stronger. He's not a freight train like Ryback, but uses his might to out-grapple anyone in the ring. Almost no one in WWE has a "style" that they hype up. This one would be easy to believe and pretty close to Cesaro's general wrestling style.
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Ben Wyatt
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 7, 2015 10:08:48 GMT -5
If they were/are serious about making their midcard titles matter, Cesaro would be a perfect fit.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Jul 7, 2015 10:11:49 GMT -5
Once he lost, once they didn't even bother having Owens run-in to at least let Cesaro eat the pin at the PPV, my heart sank.
They know he can go so they'll let him do a 20 minute match but I'm doubting that it will ever translate to anything long-term.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 7, 2015 10:12:39 GMT -5
Me when WWE won't give Cesaro a rightful Push
Feel free to save this. I feel like it will come in handy in the future. Quite happy with how it turned out. Why is that person in the corner wearing a mask? CHIKARA has Lucha Libre influences, so some of the wrestlers wear masks and have persona's of the like. That is Tursas, a near Seven Foot Viking (Which Cesaro trained in his time in CHIKARA in their Facility, the Wrestle Factory). He was a monster in his run there, I recommend looking up some of his stuff
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 7, 2015 10:16:07 GMT -5
People go to "too Swiss" because it is a bullshit excuse. Cesaro was over like a sumbitch until they killed his face turn, took away the Giant Swing, paired him with Heyman who only shouted about Brock and then booked him to lose for months. That is why Austin called him on it and Vince stumbled over "too Swiss". So yeah, 2Swiss deserves to be used as it is. But the problem about that, is that by just focusing about Heyman, it ignores another, equal fact: It's not even "JUST" that Cesaro isn't a particularly good promo. Cesaro not being a particularly good promo is one thing, but in addition to his own failing with promos, Cesaro's had FOUR DIFFERENT managers at some point or another during his WWE run (Aksana, Zeb Colter, Paul Heyman, and Natalya- and that depends on whatever Adam Rose was for the two of them, to boot which would make it five.) Natalya didn't cut many promos for Cesaro and Kidd, but the message is there: Cesaro's not even JUST "not a good promo", but he's even a bad promo when he's given a manager to make his promos work- a far more damning problem for Cesaro's charisma (and Heyman and Colter were two of the best male managers in the company, with Aksana being no slouch on the mic, albeit nowhere near their league). Even with those, it seems clear- the times when Cesaro clicked the best were in tag teams- whether it was Cesaro/Kidd or The Real Americans...and if it goes to indy work: even on the indy scene, Castagnoli was always at his best with the Kings of Wrestling, so it may be as simple as "Cesaro is an otherworldly tag team specialist, but he JUST DOESN'T HAVE IT to be a top singles guy." When managed by Colter, Cesaro was part of an act that despite having its roots in the bigoted misdirection of patriotism and was unabashedly heel, had a chant that pretty much the whole arena was standing up for. It was an act that got heat when it was just Colter and Swagger, but once Cesaro joined and they formed a team, his performance in the ring was one of the factors that helped them get over in ways other than just being booed. Hell, at the height of his push and overness during the buildup to Elimination Chamber, he was still attached to Zeb. It was only when he won the battle royale and was put with Heyman that it began to sour for him. Imagine if Heyman had talked up Cesaro with half as much cocaine-fueled, old testament fire as he gives Brock. Imagine him putting Cesaro up on the level of another freak, one who isn't necessarily a beast or a destroyer, but the perfect physical specimen of wrestling. Put over his strength and let him go on a tear that would maybe involve winning a midcard title. Talked about how nobody could out-wrestle him, then had people come down and try to, but fail miserably. Use his style and physical ability to form a character that suits what he can do and let his ring work speak for itself. Even for Aksana, the gimmick of "Cesaro says words in different languages" was clearly not f***ing working, and instead of trying to continue it, they should have considered giving him something more. Languages was the extent of his character when they could have done so much more even in the vein of "look how European he is". It was a crap, half-baked attempt to give him a tenth of a gimmick and they should have tried something else instead of letting him just sink with it.
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