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Post by Ruthless Pessimism on Jul 7, 2015 10:32:28 GMT -5
Let's just give him the IC title. Job Barrett out to Cesaro, put the belt on him then let him have competitive matches with Truth, Dolph and Luke Harper every week.
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The Sam
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Post by The Sam on Jul 7, 2015 10:36:24 GMT -5
Not Swiss enough.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jul 7, 2015 10:36:40 GMT -5
But the problem about that, is that by just focusing about Heyman, it ignores another, equal fact: It's not even "JUST" that Cesaro isn't a particularly good promo. Cesaro not being a particularly good promo is one thing, but in addition to his own failing with promos, Cesaro's had FOUR DIFFERENT managers at some point or another during his WWE run (Aksana, Zeb Colter, Paul Heyman, and Natalya- and that depends on whatever Adam Rose was for the two of them, to boot which would make it five.) Natalya didn't cut many promos for Cesaro and Kidd, but the message is there: Cesaro's not even JUST "not a good promo", but he's even a bad promo when he's given a manager to make his promos work- a far more damning problem for Cesaro's charisma (and Heyman and Colter were two of the best male managers in the company, with Aksana being no slouch on the mic, albeit nowhere near their league). Even with those, it seems clear- the times when Cesaro clicked the best were in tag teams- whether it was Cesaro/Kidd or The Real Americans...and if it goes to indy work: even on the indy scene, Castagnoli was always at his best with the Kings of Wrestling, so it may be as simple as "Cesaro is an otherworldly tag team specialist, but he JUST DOESN'T HAVE IT to be a top singles guy." When managed by Colter, Cesaro was part of an act that despite having its roots in the bigoted misdirection of patriotism and was unabashedly heel, had a chant that pretty much the whole arena was standing up for. It was an act that got heat when it was just Colter and Swagger, but once Cesaro joined and they formed a team, his performance in the ring was one of the factors that helped them get over in ways other than just being booed. Hell, at the height of his push and overness during the buildup to Elimination Chamber, he was still attached to Zeb. It was only when he won the battle royale and was put with Heyman that it began to sour for him. Imagine if Heyman had talked up Cesaro with half as much cocaine-fueled, old testament fire as he gives Brock. Imagine him putting Cesaro up on the level of another freak, one who isn't necessarily a beast or a destroyer, but the perfect physical specimen of wrestling. Put over his strength and let him go on a tear that would maybe involve winning a midcard title. Talked about how nobody could out-wrestle him, then had people come down and try to, but fail miserably. Use his style and physical ability to form a character that suits what he can do and let his ring work speak for itself. Even for Aksana, the gimmick of "Cesaro says words in different languages" was clearly not f***ing working, and instead of trying to continue it, they should have considered giving him something more. Languages was the extent of his character when they could have done so much more even in the vein of "look how European he is". It was a crap, half-baked attempt to give him a tenth of a gimmick and they should have tried something else instead of letting him just sink with it. Yeah, saying he didn't get over with Colter is absolutely incorrect. He was still with Zeb when he won the Andre Battle Royale and was over as hell up to that point. If Heyman stuck to talking about Cesaro in his appearances it'd have worked too. The Aksana thing... was another show don't tell. They had him do the five languages but then Cole would ramble off bits of his Very European gimmick on commentary. He sleeps on the floor, he walks everywhere, etc. etc. they didn't actually show him doing any of the actual stuff that got him over in the indies or NXT. Let's just give him the IC title. Job Barrett out to Cesaro, put the belt on him then let him have competitive matches with Truth, Dolph and Luke Harper every week. uh... Barrett isn't the champion and hasn't been since Mania.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Jul 7, 2015 12:20:59 GMT -5
When managed by Colter, Cesaro was part of an act that despite having its roots in the bigoted misdirection of patriotism and was unabashedly heel, had a chant that pretty much the whole arena was standing up for. It was an act that got heat when it was just Colter and Swagger, but once Cesaro joined and they formed a team, his performance in the ring was one of the factors that helped them get over in ways other than just being booed. Hell, at the height of his push and overness during the buildup to Elimination Chamber, he was still attached to Zeb. It was only when he won the battle royale and was put with Heyman that it began to sour for him. Imagine if Heyman had talked up Cesaro with half as much cocaine-fueled, old testament fire as he gives Brock. Imagine him putting Cesaro up on the level of another freak, one who isn't necessarily a beast or a destroyer, but the perfect physical specimen of wrestling. Put over his strength and let him go on a tear that would maybe involve winning a midcard title. Talked about how nobody could out-wrestle him, then had people come down and try to, but fail miserably. Use his style and physical ability to form a character that suits what he can do and let his ring work speak for itself. Even for Aksana, the gimmick of "Cesaro says words in different languages" was clearly not f***ing working, and instead of trying to continue it, they should have considered giving him something more. Languages was the extent of his character when they could have done so much more even in the vein of "look how European he is". It was a crap, half-baked attempt to give him a tenth of a gimmick and they should have tried something else instead of letting him just sink with it. Yeah, saying he didn't get over with Colter is absolutely incorrect. He was still with Zeb when he won the Andre Battle Royale and was over as hell up to that point. If Heyman stuck to talking about Cesaro in his appearances it'd have worked too. The Aksana thing... was another show don't tell. They had him do the five languages but then Cole would ramble off bits of his Very European gimmick on commentary. He sleeps on the floor, he walks everywhere, etc. etc. they didn't actually show him doing any of the actual stuff that got him over in the indies or NXT. The Colter thing is fair- but even then, it does count since when Cesaro won the Andre Battle Royal it looked like he had just turned on Colter and turned face (which, indeed could have helped things)- but then the Heyman thing was the biggest example of the whole problem: Quite frankly, the fact that Heyman and Cesaro failed that badly and destroyed the heat proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that EITHER "Paul Heyman is overrated as a manager" or "Cesaro's heat was bound to dissipate and he can't be a long-term main eventer". It has to be one or the other there, and the IWC decided "Neither!". Cesaro's been at his best in tag teams and as a spot upper carder, but he doesn't have IT to be "THE MAN"- and if he didn't work in Ring of Honor or CHIKARA then people would accept that fact. Simple as that.
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xCompackx
Wade Wilson
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Post by xCompackx on Jul 7, 2015 12:29:21 GMT -5
Paul Heyman touched on the whole "failing as a manager for guys who aren't Brock Lesnar or CM Punk" on Steve Austin's podcast, I believe. Even he knows that him managing Cesaro was a mistake. As for Cesaro, I don't see how anyone could deny that he's not talented enough to be a main eventer. Guy's got a nice look, can f***ing go in the ring, and has it in him to be charismatic. He just needs a gimmick that plays to his strengths and allows him to work on the weaknesses. Also, f*** that "he's too Swiss" excuse. Why isn't Sheamus "too Irish" or Chris Jericho "too Canadian"? It's crazy how WWE's had such a diverse roster over the years, yet Cesaro is the one guy they single out.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jul 7, 2015 12:37:26 GMT -5
The thing that gets me about Heyman failing as Cesaro's manager is....Heyman legit is a fan of the dude. Chris Hero talks about it in a shoot where he was talking to Paul and he was watching Cesaro/Zayn on NXT and midway through Heyman just froze and started staring at the match, rapt, and then when it finished just went straight to gorilla to talk to them.
But as Heyman alluded to, his job at the time wasn't to put over Cesaro, it was still to put over Brock. Cesaro was just the excuse for him to be out there.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Jul 7, 2015 12:39:37 GMT -5
I hope he gets another title shot or feud for the IC title.
Him wrestling Ryback would be fun to watch, now with the Big Guy being a decent worker.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 7, 2015 12:46:28 GMT -5
Paul Heyman touched on the whole "failing as a manager for guys who aren't Brock Lesnar or CM Punk" on Steve Austin's podcast, I believe. Even he knows that him managing Cesaro was a mistake. As for Cesaro, I don't see how anyone could deny that he's not talented enough to be a main eventer. Guy's got a nice look, can f***ing go in the ring, and has it in him to be charismatic. He just needs a gimmick that plays to his strengths and allows him to work on the weaknesses. Also, f*** that "he's too Swiss" excuse. Why isn't Sheamus "too Irish" or Chris Jericho "too Canadian"? It's crazy how WWE's had such a diverse roster over the years, yet Cesaro is the one guy they single out. "Too Swiss" is BS, but the reason Jericho isn't "too Canadian" is because the average fan doesn't see much of a difference between Canadians and Americans other than nationality. Sheamus isn't "Too Irish" because 1.) Vince is obsessed with the Irish culture and 2.) if Sheamus were American/Canadian, he probably wouldn't "stand out" as much.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 7, 2015 12:55:14 GMT -5
Cesaro could easily have a Jason Statham silent badass gimmick (I've always felt he kinda looks like him). That would absolutely work
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 12:57:41 GMT -5
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SUPES
Don Corleone
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Post by SUPES on Jul 7, 2015 16:20:09 GMT -5
Let's just give him the IC title. Job Barrett out to Cesaro, put the belt on him then let him have competitive matches with Truth, Dolph and Luke Harper every week. This is the idea I've had for a month. Here's the expanded fantasy booking version. {Spoiler}He dethrones Ryback and goes on a tear until the Rumble having epic matches against a who's who of opponents - Neville, Sheamus, Ziggler, Barrett, Rusev, Show, Harper, Ambrose, hell even throw him Noble in an ROH dream match. He gets clean victories over guys that have been in the main event picture before to really elevate the title and himself. He'll brag about bringing back the prestige of the IC Title that had been missing for many, many years and that he's now the best champ in the company. "I don't waste your time talking for 15 minutes and I don't rely on the Authority to back me up. I get in this ring and leave with this title because I'm the greatest IC Champ of all-time."
Meanwhile, Cena does lose the US Title to Owens in the summer, but ultimately wins it back and the feud when they settle it inside Hell in a Cell, as Vince allows a bit of non-PG leniency for them to deliver the best Cell match in a decade. (Owens will be fine, as he becomes an even bigger asshole having eaten all the shit he's dished out, being a bully to so many enhancement talents. Zayn returns in the Rumble match to spoil the plan of Owens to headline the biggest WM ever. leading to their WM32 showdown.)
Cena enters the Rumble match as US Champion, interested in headlining the biggest WM ever and go for the coveted 16th top title reign, even talks of unifying the titles should he achieve his goal.
Cesaro then says that since Cena can't be bothered to defend the US Title at the Rumble, he is laying down an IC Title open challenge on that show. Finn Balor answers the challenge, making his main roster debut in the Orlando, where he has been "developing" his craft, so the crowd eats up since it's largely made of NXT fans and smarks. They have an early MOTYC with Balor winning the IC Title. Balor wins the rematch at Fast Lane.
This leads to Balor vs. Cena to unify the midcard titles, foreshadowed by Cena talking about unification in general before the Rumble. So where does that leave Cesaro?
Since Kidd cannot return until next summer at the earliest, but Cesaro has some momentum that MUST be obtained and rewarded with a spot on the biggest show ever's PPV portion, his WM32 opponent is Chris Jericho.
After Fast Lane, Jericho finally returns to WWE TV with the Highlight Reel and Cesaro is his guest. It's a pleasant interview until Jericho questions Cesaro about being out of the title picture. Cesaro becomes flustered and claims that he was the greatest IC champ ever, "I made that title, nobody would care about that unification match between Balor and Cena if it wasn't for me!" Jericho takes exception to this, reminding Cesaro that "you never defended it against me, the real greatest IC Champ ever, you know, the guy who held it NINE TIMES!" Their issue grows into being a personal animosity, as of course they can't focus on the IC Title dynamic since they're not gonna compete for it at WM32.
A few weeks ago, I had Joe as the one to face Jericho at WM32. Have him win the Andre the Giant trophy for his main roster debut, taking place at AT&T Stadium. I'd hope Itami would be the final elimination to promote their NXT feud.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jul 7, 2015 16:52:56 GMT -5
And the funniest thing is, of all the people they can bill as a Superhuman Wrestling Machine, Cesaro has well earned that billing, the dude really is a freak. Yes, I'd totally buy it. But for WWE, most of the time that's a heel type gimmick. I really want to see him get pushed, and he wasn't bad on the mic tonight, but as I watched I thought "he's not doing himself any favors". He either needs sort of a cooler, smoother character, or to be badass wrestling machine. Something more concrete. Why? Kurt Angle as a face was a complete dork who also a wrestling machine when the bell rang. That went over pretty well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 17:00:56 GMT -5
Yes, I'd totally buy it. But for WWE, most of the time that's a heel type gimmick. I really want to see him get pushed, and he wasn't bad on the mic tonight, but as I watched I thought "he's not doing himself any favors". He either needs sort of a cooler, smoother character, or to be badass wrestling machine. Something more concrete. Why? Kurt Angle as a face was a complete dork who also a wrestling machine when the bell rang. That went over pretty well. Can Cesaro be that kind of dork? Because if so, I'm all for it. I just don't think he has the natural speaking ability, the comfort, or the hamminess of a Kurt Angle. I look at Cesaro and see someone who would benefit from a more chilled out character, because that would match with his real personality. That's why I mentioned Razor Ramon, I could see Cesaro pulling off a schtick in that vein very well. Not Cuban drug lord but that sort of sauntering laidback guy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 17:01:21 GMT -5
How many times has Cesaro had an outstanding match with an upper mid-card/main event guy and absolutely nothing has come out of it.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 7, 2015 17:02:19 GMT -5
His team with Kidd did help raise his stock, so, now wouldn't be a bad time.
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Post by The Beast Disincarnate on Jul 7, 2015 17:18:59 GMT -5
He's like a swiss Shelton Benjamin. Very talented but missing something. Hard to explain but i don't see him as a top player, and he probably will never be one.
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Post by Clawley Race on Jul 7, 2015 18:26:28 GMT -5
They need to give him a big signature win at a major show/PPV, and possibly someone who is a better talker. Maybe Paul Hey.....oh....
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Post by Ruthless Pessimism on Jul 7, 2015 20:06:35 GMT -5
Let's just give him the IC title. Job Barrett out to Cesaro, put the belt on him then let him have competitive matches with Truth, Dolph and Luke Harper every week. uh... Barrett isn't the champion and hasn't been since Mania. Damn, shows how much I've paid attention to the division lately.
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Lupin the Third
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I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jul 7, 2015 21:13:31 GMT -5
Me when WWE won't give Cesaro a rightful Push
Feel free to save this. I feel like it will come in handy in the future. Quite happy with how it turned out. When someone scares even Tursas, you know shit got real.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 7, 2015 22:17:19 GMT -5
I might suggest if Owens gets the US title they should just put Cesaro against Owens in a US title program. The problem that I have no idea where Cena goes at that point. They'd probably just main event him again.
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