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Post by Instant Classic on Jul 7, 2015 16:43:29 GMT -5
Nothing but respect!
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 7, 2015 17:45:18 GMT -5
John Cena is one of the most universally praised wrestlers in the world right now due to his in ring work and his promos, so luckily anybody annoyed at the criticism he receives doesn't really have much to worry about any more HAHAHAHA....no. I'd love to believe that, but no. It's over. His legacy is f***ed, I've resigned to that. I don't particularly like it, but I've accepted it.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jul 7, 2015 17:52:26 GMT -5
Cena is definitely pandering to the crowd, trying to gain the respect/acknowledgement of the fanbase that has hated him for a decade. I don't think that's debatable with the talent he has been facing lately and his new in ring style which seems to be inspired by Davey Richards. Honestly, I think that's smart of Cena. He already has the kids and women. If no-selling and high spot after high spot is what will get the smarky crowd to give him respect for his in ring work, then better to pander to them knowing you already have the other side in the bag. For a man who's made tens of millions from his large, devoted fanbase and who is confident enough to encourage the chants against him and allow an anti-Cena shirt, I really, really, really doubt that. Uh...that's kinda EXACTLY what pandering is. Panderer: a person who caters to or profits from the weaknesses or vices of others.You base your views around what will draw the desired reaction from the group you are trying to appeal. Cena ain't dumb. He knows who he appeals to and he knows that a good chunk of the fanbase just don't like him. He knows what buttons to push to draw the reaction he wants from whoever he wants. Pandering is not a bad thing in wrestling but let's not sit here and pretend it's anything else. For f***'s sake, he actively tries to lead chants against himself. Pandering to the max.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 17:55:05 GMT -5
I mean, that's cool and all, but if actually led to something, that'd be great.
I have vague remeberances of Cena doing this in the past with other wrestlers and it going nowhere...so, yeah.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 17:57:08 GMT -5
For a man who's made tens of millions from his large, devoted fanbase and who is confident enough to encourage the chants against him and allow an anti-Cena shirt, I really, really, really doubt that. Uh...that's kinda EXACTLY what pandering is. Panderer: a person who caters to or profits from the weaknesses or vices of others.You base your views around what will draw the desired reaction from the group you are trying to appeal. Cena ain't dumb. He knows who he appeals and he knows that a good chunk of the fanbase just don't like him. He knows what buttons to push to draw the reaction he wants from whoever he wants. Pandering is not a bad thing in wrestling but let's not sit here and pretend it's anything else. For f***'s sake, he actively tries to lead chants against himself. Pandering to the max. What makes pandering become a negative thing is when the person is saying things they don't believe in order to gain favor with a crowd. That's negative on principle to me, because it's inauthentic, phony. That's how I feel when he puts on the righteous southern man voice in the south, or goes with the New England accent in Boston. Pandering itself isn't a bad or good thing, but when it's done transparently, it rubs people the wrong way.
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Post by xCompackx on Jul 7, 2015 18:02:34 GMT -5
John Cena is one of the most universally praised wrestlers in the world right now due to his in ring work and his promos, so luckily anybody annoyed at the criticism he receives doesn't really have much to worry about any more HAHAHAHA....no. I'd love to believe that, but no. It's over. His legacy is f***ed, I've resigned to that. I don't particularly like it, but I've accepted it. While I'm sure John Cena will be remembered fondly for his Make-A-Wish stuff and all that, but his in-ring career isn't going to be regarded anywhere near as highly as Hulk Hogan's was, I feel.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:04:22 GMT -5
You know, it's refreshing to bitch about Cena.
Way more fun than bitching about the Authority.
Hopefully Cena vs. Cesaro ='ed ratings.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jul 7, 2015 18:13:07 GMT -5
Do...do people seriously think Cena is cool with all these people booing him and hating him because he's just a swell guy that thinks everybody should be able to voice their opinion?
I have to laugh at all these people who are like "STOP HATING ON JOHN CENA. HE DOESN'T DESERVE IT!!!" Guess what? Cena loves this hatred because it's good for his career. While ya'll are arguing about how he "deserves better", he's chillin in the pocket laughing at all these marks while counting his money.
HE. WANTS. THIS. REACTION. He's a brand. For better or for worse, the polarizing effect he has is now part of his appeal. He wants his fans but he also wants to make people mad. He wants to make a section of the fanbase so mad that they keep spending money on anti-Cena merch and buying shows on the possibility that he could lose. If that hate stops, there goes a chunk of his income.
I'm sorry to apparently have to tell some people that the Tooth Fairy isn't real but enough's enough. He's a smart businessman. He's gonna do what's best for his long-term future and that means pissing off some smarks. I promise you he's not crying himself to sleep at night while sleeping in his multi-million dollar home on his girlfriend's fake boobs because somebody said he can't wrestle.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 7, 2015 18:26:47 GMT -5
HAHAHAHA....no. I'd love to believe that, but no. It's over. His legacy is f***ed, I've resigned to that. I don't particularly like it, but I've accepted it. While I'm sure John Cena will be remembered fondly for his Make-A-Wish stuff and all that, but his in-ring career isn't going to be regarded anywhere near as highly as Hulk Hogan's was, I feel. In a way, it shouldn't be. He's way better with the moves, but there's really not been anything John's done that's on the scale of the bigger Hulk stuff, at least in terms of feeling important or epic. That's not totally on him of course, but it's true. As good as Cena has been, even in the spotlight for longer, there's nothing that's on the scale of Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Warrior, the Mega Powers exploding et al.
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Jul 7, 2015 18:28:02 GMT -5
Suddenly John Cena has become the new AJ here.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 7, 2015 18:29:33 GMT -5
Do...do people seriously think Cena is cool with all these people booing him and hating him because he's just a swell guy that thinks everybody should be able to voice their opinion? I have to laugh at all these people who are like "STOP HATING ON JOHN CENA. HE DOESN'T DESERVE IT!!!" Guess what? Cena loves this hatred because it's good for his career. While ya'll are arguing about how he "deserves better", he's chillin in the pocket laughing at all these marks while counting his money. HE. WANTS. THIS. REACTION. He's a brand. For better or for worse, the polarizing effect he has is now part of his appeal. He wants his fans but he also wants to make people mad. He wants to make a section of the fanbase so mad that they keep spending money on anti-Cena merch and buying shows on the possibility that he could lose. If that hate stops, there goes a chunk of his income. I'm sorry to apparently have to tell some people that the Tooth Fairy isn't real but enough's enough. He's a smart businessman. He's gonna do what's best for his long-term future and that means pissing off some smarks. I promise you he's not crying himself to sleep at night while sleeping in his multi-million dollar home on his girlfriend's fake boobs because somebody said he can't wrestle. To paraphrase him from the Rock/Cena special "They may boo me and act like they hate me but they're shelling out their cash and having a blast doing it". Cena is the only regular main roster member to have 100% of the crowd involved in his matches. No one else outside that Brock, Rock, Hunter level can claim that. And for Cena, when all is said and done, you can damn well bet his legacy will be that he saved WWE. When the Benoit mess went down, it was Cena that put the company on his back and beat the drum of how great the company was, it was Cena that kept people coming back whether they hated him, "hated" him or loved him and it was Cena that not only got better in the ring as he got older but helped to usher in this era where in ring skills matter again. As long as he doesn't screw up something fierce, he'll rightfully be put next to Austin and Hogan as the greatest WWE has ever seen and I guarantee that it will only be the fringe of wrestling fandom that dares to argue.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 7, 2015 18:30:03 GMT -5
While I'm sure John Cena will be remembered fondly for his Make-A-Wish stuff and all that, but his in-ring career isn't going to be regarded anywhere near as highly as Hulk Hogan's was, I feel. In a way, it shouldn't be. He's way better with the moves, but there's really not been anything John's done that's on the scale of the bigger Hulk stuff, at least in terms of feeling important or epic. That's not totally on him of course, but it's true. As good as Cena has been, even in the spotlight for longer, there's nothing that's on the scale of Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Warrior, the Mega Powers exploding et al. Cena has also never made a wrestling promotion his own personal playground or took advantage of a promoter's naivety/stupidity for his own gain and to the detriment of lesser wrestlers.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 7, 2015 18:37:44 GMT -5
In a way, it shouldn't be. He's way better with the moves, but there's really not been anything John's done that's on the scale of the bigger Hulk stuff, at least in terms of feeling important or epic. That's not totally on him of course, but it's true. As good as Cena has been, even in the spotlight for longer, there's nothing that's on the scale of Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Warrior, the Mega Powers exploding et al. Cena has also never made a wrestling promotion his own personal playground or took advantage of a promoter's naivety/stupidity for his own gain and to the detriment of lesser wrestlers. Fair enough; but the Hulkster is Americana brother. Cena, as good as he is, won't ever attain that level. Hogan's negatives don't change that. Plus, there are also several cases of guys praising Hogan for either going to bat for em or ensuring they made way more money just by him being on the card.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jul 7, 2015 18:47:44 GMT -5
There are people to this day that insist that Hogan was a bad wrestler because his moveset was limited.
There are always gonna be those cornballs, lol. You can't factor them in when trying to determine someone's legacy, revisionism is always gonna be around. Cena's gonna be just fine when he retires. 20 years from now, people are gonna be all on his nuts and calling him one of the all-time greats. An entire generation essentially grew up with Cena as the top guy. Think about that.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Jul 7, 2015 19:00:48 GMT -5
People are already calling him one of the all time greats, because he is. He has the best matches in the company repeatedly and cuts promos like absolutely no other f***er when he wants to to the point where someone like myself was ready to burn my house down with an overload of all out raw f***ing excitement during that promo he cut with Orton where you had about 100 people in the ring. That's a match that by and large is now the dictionary definition of a piss break but it took him about a minute to get everybody going crazy like a mad man's shit. This is in an period when all that matters. You could maybe compare him to Hogan and Austin in the sense that he hasn't single handedly caught the wave and made wrestling a global phenomena for a period of time like either of those did, but I don't buy that, he doesn't have any influence over that. People boo, but what the f***,as a character he does. John Cena as a character does legitimately suck. There's barely a character there any more beyond a quasi realistic cornball who smiles and by golly's. But it doesn't matter, people boo that, it's fun. Clean living He Men don't cut it any more. It's not 9 years ago when people wanted him off TV, when people would still talk about five moves of doom. It's just what happens.
He's one of the all time greats and as it stands is the best in the company, and he's by and large adored and appreciated by the WWE audience. People can't continue to let things like his reactions 2006 - 2010 or whatever else color that. People love him. The genuine negatives are in the minority.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 7, 2015 19:11:19 GMT -5
Do...do people seriously think Cena is cool with all these people booing him and hating him because he's just a swell guy that thinks everybody should be able to voice their opinion? I have to laugh at all these people who are like "STOP HATING ON JOHN CENA. HE DOESN'T DESERVE IT!!!" Guess what? Cena loves this hatred because it's good for his career. While ya'll are arguing about how he "deserves better", he's chillin in the pocket laughing at all these marks while counting his money. HE. WANTS. THIS. REACTION. He's a brand. For better or for worse, the polarizing effect he has is now part of his appeal. He wants his fans but he also wants to make people mad. He wants to make a section of the fanbase so mad that they keep spending money on anti-Cena merch and buying shows on the possibility that he could lose. If that hate stops, there goes a chunk of his income. I'm sorry to apparently have to tell some people that the Tooth Fairy isn't real but enough's enough. He's a smart businessman. He's gonna do what's best for his long-term future and that means pissing off some smarks. I promise you he's not crying himself to sleep at night while sleeping in his multi-million dollar home on his girlfriend's fake boobs because somebody said he can't wrestle. I'm well aware that Cena and WWE love riling up crowds and that they encourage fans to treat him like an establishment villain. I just think it's a very unappealing narrative, and over time I've gradually grown tired of it, especially given the real life factors about him that demonsmoke already pointed out. Seeing people sneer at a character that's presented as mostly noble and good is pretty depressing to watch. And for me, all of the backstage dirt and the meta heelish stuff Cena works in doesn't change that. Maybe it's WWE's fault for making some stories revolve solely around him, but it's hard for me to get into guys like Owens, Wyatt or Cesaro when they're pushed as generic anti-Cena avatars. To me it just makes their characters kinda annoying. An establishment babyface with subtle heelish tendencies on paper is a great idea, but Cena the dude is far too likable and endearing to play this character. A colder, darker personality like Randy Orton would be way more suited for this position, having the Make-A-Wish guy do it is a bit unsettling.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jul 7, 2015 19:23:28 GMT -5
Cena has also never made a wrestling promotion his own personal playground or took advantage of a promoter's naivety/stupidity for his own gain and to the detriment of lesser wrestlers. Fair enough; but the Hulkster is Americana brother. Cena, as good as he is, won't ever attain that level. Hogan's negatives don't change that. Plus, there are also several cases of guys praising Hogan for either going to bat for em or ensuring they made way more money just by him being on the card. It's a double edged sword for sure. Like ideally, we shouldn't have wrestlers acting like assholes and dickheads to Vince to get pushses for guys and girls who keep falling through the cracks and we should have dudes and gals are talented to rise to the top because of their talent and talent alone. ...but for the most part, that's not how it wrestling has ever worked. Sure talent rises, but a lot of guys fall through those cracks because a top guy doesn't act like a dickhead asshole to Vince and politics to get that guy pushed and they eventually just settle for a lower spot.
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Post by Raskovnik on Jul 7, 2015 19:55:12 GMT -5
Cena's way too flawed for me to even unironically cheer him as a good guy if you ONLY watch the product you see on TV and ONLY judge him based on his character and promos. The Owens feud is the most recent example. Owens kicked his ass fair and square and pinned him clean in the first match, and Cena just said Owens wasn't a man and continually ran him down, goading him into a rematch. That's not virtuous at all. That's some lame f***ing shit. I've known people in real life who do the same shit and it's f***ing impossible to respect.
Or there was that time Cena fought Rey for the title the same night Rey won a grueling tournament for it which is legitimately one of the biggest heel moves I can think of, ever, some straight up Edge shit, yet it was played completely straight. Or using cancer kids to completely neuter anyone who talks shit about him. That is so low. No one can even play off that and he knows it. He's that motherf***er who leaves $10 in the tip jar when he knows everyone is looking. He's that smug asshole who humblebrags on Twitter. He's that dude on Facebook who takes selfies with the homeless dude whose lunch he just bought to prove how nice he is. He's a big f***ing hypocrite and not even in an endearing way and he's been like this for years. Of course I'd turn my nose up at that, what the hell? I can't blame anyone for it. I personally much prefer Cena's "I'm the f***ing best and I know it, so bring it" elder statesman character that he brings out once a year because THAT'S who he is and THAT'S what he should be. Cut all the other bullshit out.
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Post by Sparkybob on Jul 7, 2015 20:07:49 GMT -5
I think Cena does it because he wants Cesaro to feel good for his effort but also caused John feels good doing it *shrug*
If I was Cena I just wouldn't dip my toes too deep into trying to get other guys pushes. Wrestling as a maineventer is stressful enough but then compounding that with trying to pitch ideas/convince creative to push talented guys will just tired you out even more. Plus once you successful use your pull to move a guy high up the card, you'll open the floodgates and have a lot of guys starting to kiss your ass in hopes you scratch their backs too.
This is probably just John's way to show his respect with Cesaro while not getting involved with his career trajectory.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 7, 2015 20:12:38 GMT -5
Cena's way too flawed for me to even unironically cheer him as a good guy if you ONLY watch the product you see on TV and ONLY judge him based on his character and promos. The Owens feud is the most recent example. Owens kicked his ass fair and square and pinned him clean in the first match, and Cena just said Owens wasn't a man and continually ran him down, goading him into a rematch. That's not virtuous at all. That's some lame f***ing shit. I've known people in real life who do the same shit and it's f***ing impossible to respect. Or there was that time Cena fought Rey for the title the same night Rey won a grueling tournament for it which is legitimately one of the biggest heel moves I can think of, ever, some straight up Edge shit, yet it was played completely straight. Or using cancer kids to completely neuter anyone who talks shit about him. That is so low. No one can even play off that and he knows it. He's that motherf***er who leaves $10 in the tip jar when he knows everyone is looking. He's that smug asshole who humblebrags on Twitter. He's that dude on Facebook who takes selfies with the homeless dude whose lunch he just bought to prove how nice he is. He's a big f***ing hypocrite and not even in an endearing way and he's been like this for years. Of course I'd turn my nose up at that, what the hell? I can't blame anyone for it. I personally much prefer Cena's "I'm the f***ing best and I know it, so bring it" elder statesman character that he brings out once a year because THAT'S who he is and THAT'S what he should be. Cut all the other bullshit out. And this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Reading posts like this is disheartening for me as a fan, so there's just no point.
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