schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,702
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Post by schma on Aug 1, 2015 13:19:03 GMT -5
I actually loved Men on Mission as a kid but I was a kid. That said there were a few years in the mid-90s where I hadn't watched because I didn't have cable and couldn't access any of the shows so I missed these years that are apparently so bad. Something like 94 or 95-97.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 13:26:45 GMT -5
Miz's entire ascent to the main event is still baffling to me. Like look at the dude after he and Morrison split up - really mediocre wrestler, an okay but not outstanding promo, not particularly over (at the time), wearing glittery Capri pants and a fedora. Why would you look at a guy like that and think "yep, that's a future main event star, let's push him to the goddamn moon!"
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
Posts: 11,088
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Aug 1, 2015 13:46:50 GMT -5
I'm seeing a lot of these suggestions and they all have one thing in common: bad booking that made guys look like goobers.
Let's look at The Miz as an example. The guy was a reality TV star and often portrayed as an interloper in the world of professional wrestling from the jump. Now, that could be an effective way of getting heat on him and that's okay to a certain extent.
Well, Miz proved himself to be good on the mic and his tag team with John Morrison was very good and that all led to a singles push where he moved up the ladder to a main event level.
Here's the thing: From a kayfabe perspective, a wrestler at the top of the card should be there because he merited it. He's there because he's earned it.
So Miz wins the WWE Title through MitB, which is fine as it's a good way to build heat on the new champ and create some sympathy for the guy who just lost his, but then came the issues with Miz.
The Miz, as champion and as a main eventer, was booked as an afterthought or worse the entire time he was champion. In building up John Cena vs. The Rock, he was window dressing even though HE WAS THE WORLD CHAMPION at the time.
Here's what's so crazy and counterproductive: You've got Mike Mizanin as the WWE Champion and in the main event, but then you book him like a chump. So you've built up a guy and put the title on him for the sole purpose of making him look like he didn't belong at that level (Rey Mysterio was put in a similar position as champ). That is insane.
Say what you will about whether or not Miz was deserving of a main event spot, but the fact is, he was given one and set up to fail.
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Zen411
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,746
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Post by Zen411 on Aug 1, 2015 13:47:27 GMT -5
I agree with zeus...kozlov...mabel...miz.
I want to add Mr Bob backlund. I hated his heel turn and felt he was too old to cut it in wwe. Especially winning the title. WWE made fun of WCW for pushing hogan and savage and they put the belt on a guy from the 70s.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Aug 1, 2015 14:30:42 GMT -5
The Miz
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,038
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 1, 2015 14:33:27 GMT -5
I'm seeing a lot of these suggestions and they all have one thing in common: bad booking that made guys look like goobers. Let's look at The Miz as an example. The guy was a reality TV star and often portrayed as an interloper in the world of professional wrestling from the jump. Now, that could be an effective way of getting heat on him and that's okay to a certain extent. Well, Miz proved himself to be good on the mic and his tag team with John Morrison was very good and that all led to a singles push where he moved up the ladder to a main event level. Here's the thing: From a kayfabe perspective, a wrestler at the top of the card should be there because he merited it. He's there because he's earned it. So Miz wins the WWE Title through MitB, which is fine as it's a good way to build heat on the new champ and create some sympathy for the guy who just lost his, but then came the issues with Miz. The Miz, as champion and as a main eventer, was booked as an afterthought or worse the entire time he was champion. In building up John Cena vs. The Rock, he was window dressing even though HE WAS THE WORLD CHAMPION at the time. Here's what's so crazy and counterproductive: You've got Mike Mizanin as the WWE Champion and in the main event, but then you book him like a chump. So you've built up a guy and put the title on him for the sole purpose of making him look like he didn't belong at that level (Rey Mysterio was put in a similar position as champ). That is insane. Say what you will about whether or not Miz was deserving of a main event spot, but the fact is, he was given one and set up to fail. It was bad booking, yes. Jericho was stuck in a similar situation with his being absorbed into the Triple H/Stephanie feud.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 1, 2015 14:35:13 GMT -5
Miz's entire ascent to the main event is still baffling to me. Like look at the dude after he and Morrison split up - really mediocre wrestler, an okay but not outstanding promo, not particularly over (at the time), wearing glittery Capri pants and a fedora. Why would you look at a guy like that and think "yep, that's a future main event star, let's push him to the goddamn moon!" He changed his look and tweaked his character a bit so he could be taken somewhat more seriously (even though he's admittedly still kinda goofy looking).
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Post by StormanReigns on Aug 1, 2015 14:53:45 GMT -5
While Miz was never Bret Hart in terms of wrestling skill, the dude was legitimately the most over heel in the company.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 15:14:42 GMT -5
While Miz was never Bret Hart in terms of wrestling skill, the dude was legitimately the most over heel in the company. In a lot of ways, I'd say that he still is. He's at least as good at getting faces over as anyone else on the roster. Having someone like that for a face to chase after for the title is far from the worst thing that could be booked.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 15:53:25 GMT -5
He changed his look and tweaked his character a bit so he could be taken somewhat more seriously (even though he's admittedly still kinda goofy looking). I know that, and I know that Miz ended up getting really over. I'm just wondering what WWE saw in the dude that made them decide to give him a mega-push as the company's top heel before either of those two things happened. Really, why would you look at this: and think "This guy has a ton of potential as a main event talent"?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 1, 2015 15:55:56 GMT -5
While I've gone on record as saying I don't think Miz was a main event guy, he's not anywhere NEAR the most egregious example of that. To his credit, at least a valid argument CAN be made of why he belongs.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 1, 2015 15:59:14 GMT -5
I agree with zeus...kozlov...mabel...miz. I want to add Mr Bob backlund. I hated his heel turn and felt he was too old to cut it in wwe. Especially winning the title. WWE made fun of WCW for pushing hogan and savage and they put the belt on a guy from the 70s. I completely disagree there. Crazy Mr. Backlund was an awesome character. I wish we'd have gotten more of a run before Diesel dethroned him. Even if it was just a ppv or so. Him having open challenges with lower tier guys and then just snapping and dismantling them while ranting about them trying to take what was his woulda been fun.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 16:03:24 GMT -5
While I've gone on record as saying I don't think Miz was a main event guy, he's not anywhere NEAR the most egregious example of that. To his credit, at least a valid argument CAN be made of why he belongs. Maybe not to you, but to me Miz is always the first name that comes to mind when thinking "why the Hell did that guy get a main event push?" Well, him and Hardcore Holly, but his only lasted for one month as opposed to almost a year.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Aug 1, 2015 16:26:19 GMT -5
Gotta go Mabel. Holly had one title match that wasn't even the main event of the ppv it was on; Mabel won KoR and then headlined Summerslam. This Holly wasn't depicted as main eventer in any way, not even during his Brock feud...just a body for Lesnar to plow through
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Aug 1, 2015 16:27:54 GMT -5
Sgt Slaughter. Normally he would have been nowhere near the main event and world title, but by chance the Gulf War happened and it gave him a genuinely fresh role to play, and he did it very well IMO. Good call Terrible flabby old-looking star of yesteryear suddenly pushed into the main event...plus that finisher oh my
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 1, 2015 16:27:49 GMT -5
While I've gone on record as saying I don't think Miz was a main event guy, he's not anywhere NEAR the most egregious example of that. To his credit, at least a valid argument CAN be made of why he belongs. Maybe not to you, but to me Miz is always the first name that comes to mind when thinking "why the Hell did that guy get a main event push?" Well, him and Hardcore Holly, but his only lasted for one month as opposed to almost a year. That's fair, I just think some of the other names posted are pretty head and shoulders above him in that regard; and I don't even really like the guy.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,668
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Post by Nosnorb on Aug 1, 2015 16:45:31 GMT -5
I cannot believe that I have to ask this, but which time? 1999 or 2007? Or was there another time that I had thankfully forgot?
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,702
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Post by schma on Aug 1, 2015 18:07:32 GMT -5
While I've gone on record as saying I don't think Miz was a main event guy, he's not anywhere NEAR the most egregious example of that. To his credit, at least a valid argument CAN be made of why he belongs. Maybe not to you, but to me Miz is always the first name that comes to mind when thinking "why the Hell did that guy get a main event push?" Well, him and Hardcore Holly, but his only lasted for one month as opposed to almost a year. With Miz it may also have been the sheer level of dedication that he was showing? He got a lot of grief from "real" wrestlers who'd worked up through the system and he is one of the most prolific wrestlers right now who do events and publicity on behalf of WWE. Also, Vince may have thought his stint on The Real World was more important than it was.
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,159
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Post by agent817 on Aug 1, 2015 22:12:07 GMT -5
I am probably the second person who is going to mention this, because I had read enough about some others like JBL, Miz, Rey, etc. but I will have to agree with another poster about Rikishi. Why I think this was a weird push was because it was so sudden and not believable. First off, this guy was over as a midcard act with Too Cool. They certainly got the crowds fired up with their dances and of course, Rikishi's schtick with his rear end. With Austin having returned after nearly a year, creative decided to push this guy up the card and turn him heel by saying that he ran down Austin at Survivor Series the previous year, and the reason being that Samoan wrestlers got held back in the company. Of course it was all a work, and I guess the bookers did not want to mention his cousin, Yokozuna, who held the title for three-quarters of a year a while before that.
The problem with his push was that, like I said before, it was so sudden and unexpected. Just because he was over didn't mean he needed a program against one of the biggest names in the company at the time. Plus, I could not take a heel seriously if he still wore a thong and did the Stink Face as an offensive move. There could have been a little tweaks to his character, like for example, giving him longer tights to wear, maybe similar to what he wore as Fatu many years prior. Also, do away with the whole thing with his butt. Also the only way he could be portrayed as an evil person was by glowering and trying to look mean and tough. It did not do him wonders when not long before he danced around with Too Cool.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 10:01:59 GMT -5
I liked Holly :/ Kozlov for me. Yeah I'm with you on this one.
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