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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Aug 3, 2015 21:02:04 GMT -5
WWE's biggest stars.
Lesnar, The Rock and Ronda Rousey.
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Post by lesleymoon on Aug 3, 2015 21:31:02 GMT -5
Really? Are we watching the same shows? Since 'Mania, the brakes have been put on Roman pretty well. No way is the show being booked around him and Cena exclusively. He is no more featured than any other wrestler on the roster as of late, and his booking has been pretty even - he's won some, he's lost some. Do I think the 'E wants him to be a big deal? Absolutely. But I think they've realized they don't have to approach it the way they did previously. And FFS. Cena 'won't get out of the spotlight?' You people do realize that Cena does not book or write the product, right?
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Aug 3, 2015 21:43:17 GMT -5
WWE is in such a weird place, and has been for a long time. It constantly shoves the fact that it's an entertainment company, not a wrestling company, into it's fans' faces, and yet if there was any show that had this many characters that had nothing of value to them, the show would be one of the worse shows on TV, and would probably be immediately canceled. Yet the WWE keeps marching on thinking it's developing interesting personalities when they're missing the mark completely. It's bizarre, almost like Vince wants to destroy the company before HHH can take it from him.
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Post by Ruthless Pessimism on Aug 3, 2015 22:10:20 GMT -5
Defeats aren't burials. Burials are burials. They are clear and distinct. Yeah, Chavo losing to Hornwaggle for months is a burial. Simply losing a match is quickly forgotten.
Kane chokeslammed Lesnar during a schmozz and everyone screamed burial.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 3, 2015 23:47:53 GMT -5
Yeah, Chavo losing to Hornwaggle for months is a burial. Simply losing a match is quickly forgotten.
Kane chokeslammed Lesnar during a schmozz and everyone screamed burial.
Was it really "everyone" and did they really say "burial"? Seriously, I don't know what people said after that, but it's just kind of hard to believe that was what most of the reaction was. Calling the segment stupid, saying that it hurt Brock's aura or whatever, sure, but not a burial. A great point was brought up before: WWE's over reliance on interference and "screw job" finishes. They do this because they think it's protecting the wrestlers, seeing as how they don't have jobber squashes to keep mid card acts over anymore, but all it does is create boring TV where nobody gets over, because nobody looks really good at what they do. Then, when you finally DO book a clean finish, it comes across like a burial, because now it goes against the norm. It's amazing how Lucha Underground and ROH book clean and/or decisive finishes almost exclusively, yet manage to keep almost the entirety of their rosters relevant, yet WWE (and TNA, when it was still a factor) won't really attempt it.
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edgehead
Dennis Stamp
Not a Poopyhead
Posts: 4,086
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Post by edgehead on Aug 4, 2015 0:03:41 GMT -5
I like WWE and I've liked it since i began watching in 1992. In 23 years, some years were better than others, but I enjoy the product and I enjoy watching it every week. Sometimes I think I partly enjoyed it so much in the 90s because there weren't so many communication channels where people could openly voice their constant frustration, which is fine and people are entitled to their opinion, I just don't understand what they are trying to accomplish by watching every week just to complain. It's kind of like it is "cool to hate wwe and watch it." At the end of the day, there is a lot more in the 3 hours that I like than I dislike.
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SUPES
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,373
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Post by SUPES on Aug 4, 2015 1:57:02 GMT -5
Agreed, I hate seeing Owens get promo time, Cesaro winning matches and looking hot in defeat, a variety of fresh acts in main events. etc. Bring back these days:
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ayumidah
Wade Wilson
The ace-iest bi you'll ever meet
Posts: 26,380
Member is Online
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Post by ayumidah on Aug 4, 2015 2:30:23 GMT -5
I care about the guys and women whether they win or not. My main problem is the guys I tend to care the most about are the ones who don't get used very often.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 3:51:20 GMT -5
Really? Are we watching the same shows? Since 'Mania, the brakes have been put on Roman pretty well. No way is the show being booked around him and Cena exclusively. He is no more featured than any other wrestler on the roster as of late, and his booking has been pretty even - he's won some, he's lost some. Do I think the 'E wants him to be a big deal? Absolutely. But I think they've realized they don't have to approach it the way they did previously. And FFS. Cena 'won't get out of the spotlight?' You people do realize that Cena does not book or write the product, right? I would be less annoyed if we didn't spend SO much time analyzing, criticizing, and documenting the failures of the creative team. All of that, only for blame to still get pinned on Cena/Sheamus/whoever we don't like. It makes as much sense as blaming CM Punk for Ryback's push being cut off at the legs.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,055
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 4, 2015 5:39:43 GMT -5
With the exception of Cena & the part time wrestlers none are looked at as anything special. In other words the regular roster is just basically filler to fill up a show. Kevin Owens is seen as just another guy on the roster. He's not a threat at all anymore since he loses constantly now. It'll take many months to re-build him now after what they did to him. Rollins has been booked terrible as champ & isn't threatening at all. Ambrose has lost every feud he's been in since being a singles wrestler. Rusev lost to Cena 3 times & is now in some awful feud with Ziggler that is doing nothing at all for him. Sheamus returned with a new look, theme, as a heel & won MITB but basically loses every other match he's in it seems like. His MITB win momentum is ruined. Barrett wins KOTR which has done nothing for him since he loses almost every match he's in & wins the matches that don't mean anything. Cesaro has gained some momentum but it doesn't even matter since what Vince said in the Austin podcast about him basically shows he doesn't think he's capable of being a star. I could go on & on throughout pretty much the entire roster. But why does WWE think we should even care about any of these guys when none of them are even doing anything of importance & are made to look weak? Right before WM 31, I predicted something like this would happen, that he whole roster would get nerfed. Why? "We need to make Roman look strong." They did the same thing for Cena in the mid 2000, making everyone else look bad, or irrelevant, in order to build him up to Super Cena status. They gave us no other superstars to root for but Cena and they're trying to use the same formula again now. The only problem is Roman isn't getting over and Cena won't get out of the spotlight. IMO, Sheamus is just a red herring with the MITB briefcase, and he's keeping it warm for Roman. They knew the crowd would boo the shit out of Roman winning MITB, so they gave it to Sheamus, who got no reaction upon winning. They only book around Cena, and Roman, everyone else is filler, just like you said. Black Helicopters, Maggle...
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,463
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Aug 4, 2015 7:10:03 GMT -5
It seems odd that this thread pops up after one of the best Raws of the year. I think the last few weeks the WWE has done a pretty good job at making people care and the vast majority of the storyline have been exceptionally good leading up to Summerslam. I really find that some people have become so cynical that they won't allow themselves to like the show. There are a lot of good storylines going on with plenty of reasons to care and WWE has done a good job in recent weeks of building these stories. I'm not saying WWE has been perfect but it definitely hasn't been nearly as bad as some are claiming. Wyatt family vs Reigns/Ambrose has been really good. They've done a good job with the story of Reigns trying to overcome what happened on the road to Mania. Good play on both Wyatt and Reigns losing their "families" with Wyatt not so subtly talking about Reigns being the "chosen one". Crowds have warmed up to Reigns. Reigns-Wyatt had a good PPV brawl and adding Ambrose and Harper to the mix should make it better. the Diva's Revolution has been pretty awesome and we've gotten some great matches. Nice story to see if the young wrestlers can knock off the old guard. Been great seeing them use in-ring work to sell the story. Tag division is getting built up and they've had some solid matches. Cool to see teams fighting to try and have a chance to win the title. New Day and PTP have been excellent in the build. To be fair, Lucha Dragons and Los Matadores had a very solid match the other week. Cena US open has given us some great matches and does have the intrigue of who will finally knock Cena off. Owens - Cesaro has been prety awesome. Owens regaining his swagger after Cena (and doing a good job of it) while Cesaro is doing the best work of his career. Seeing the crows getting behind Cesaro has been a pleasure to watch. Neville - Stardust is Stardust basically challenging Neville to step up which he did by almost winning the title last night and having a great match with Rollins. Taker - Lesnar has the story of Taker avenging his only Mania loss while Brock gets to prove that he is indeed the "beast". Heyman has done a great job of selling this. (Raw brawl was awesome as well). I was very cold on this match during the initial push but the sell since then has been great. Rollins has a great story of trying to prove that he deserves the belt and that he can actually hang on to the belt. Pairing him with Cena is good and Rollins absolutely knocked it out of the park this week. Good intrigue to see him go against Cena who doesn't lose. Cena did a good job of challenging Rollins to break away from the authority and prove that he is a deserving champion. The broken nose has added to the matchup and I loved Rollins selling of it. No reason to believe that Cena-Rollins won't have a great match at Summerslam. Only one that doesn't have a great build behind it is Shaemus and Orton but even they can easily have great matches if they are both on and Orton has done some exceptionally good in-ring work lately. They only book around Cena, and Roman, everyone else is filler, just like you said. Reading this I do have to question if you have watched the show recently as Roman hasn't been a featured person on the show in quite some time. They've done a good job cooling him off and letting him slowly regain the crowd's favor in the last few months. Even Cena hasn't been the main focus.
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Post by cabbageboy on Aug 4, 2015 7:21:28 GMT -5
The Reigns/Wyatt deal is better once Harper and Ambrose became actively involved. It's been 6 months since the Rumble and I still don't get WWE's booking of that show and WM. I still don't get bringing back Daniel Bryan in order to toss him with zero fanfare at the Rumble. Truth be told, given what all happened I don't see why they didn't just have Bryan win the Rumble, put him with Lesnar at WM, let him take a beating, then Rollins does the cash in. It would have prevented most of the Reigns bashing from occurring, and I bet Rollins would have gotten the right kind of heel heat from screwing Bryan that way.
Let's say Reigns has been slightly depushed. What then? Right now I see no one on the current roster that I would book to win the Rumble next year and go on to headline WM. They tried it with Reigns and it tanked horribly. I might have Ambrose win it but he has been so jobbed out this year that I'm not sure anyone buys him as a main eventer. A part of me has a terrifying feeling that Cena will win the title and Reigns will win the Rumble, with WWE thinking people seriously want to see that match.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,273
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 4, 2015 7:22:57 GMT -5
Really? Are we watching the same shows? Since 'Mania, the brakes have been put on Roman pretty well. No way is the show being booked around him and Cena exclusively. He is no more featured than any other wrestler on the roster as of late, and his booking has been pretty even - he's won some, he's lost some. Do I think the 'E wants him to be a big deal? Absolutely. But I think they've realized they don't have to approach it the way they did previously. And FFS. Cena 'won't get out of the spotlight?' You people do realize that Cena does not book or write the product, right? Yeah, it's not Cenas fault. But he's still been in the spotlight for too long, and I say that as a fan.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,463
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Aug 4, 2015 7:25:46 GMT -5
The Reigns/Wyatt deal is better once Harper and Ambrose became actively involved. It's been 6 months since the Rumble and I still don't get WWE's booking of that show and WM. I still don't get bringing back Daniel Bryan in order to toss him with zero fanfare at the Rumble. Truth be told, given what all happened I don't see why they didn't just have Bryan win the Rumble, put him with Lesnar at WM, let him take a beating, then Rollins does the cash in. It would have prevented most of the Reigns bashing from occurring, and I bet Rollins would have gotten the right kind of heel heat from screwing Bryan that way. Let's say Reigns has been slightly depushed. What then? Right now I see no one on the current roster that I would book to win the Rumble next year and go on to headline WM. They tried it with Reigns and it tanked horribly. I might have Ambrose win it but he has been so jobbed out this year that I'm not sure anyone buys him as a main eventer. A part of me has a terrifying feeling that Cena will win the title and Reigns will win the Rumble, with WWE thinking people seriously want to see that match. I totally agree about the Rumble and that goes down as the absolute worst Rumble and Rumble build I have ever seen. I'd turn Rollins and have him win the Rumble and then have a Reigns-Rollins-Lesnar triple threat rematch. Story would be easy to build. Rollins proving it wasn't a fluke, Reigns wanting revenge for almost winning the title and having it stolen and Lesnar being pissed for never having been pinned and wanting the title back (and revenge on Rollins). Face-Heel doesn't matter in the story. Yeah, it's not Cenas fault. But he's still been in the spotlight for too long, and I say that as a fan. I agree to this but they are in an interesting position where he is still one of the bigger draws and is immensely over at house shows so they really can't just do away with him. Combine that with the fact that aside from him getting stronger reactions than anyone else on the roster combined with him being able to deliver in the ring and on the mic on a nightly basis and it makes it tougher for them to be willing to alter him significantly.
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Post by sportatorium on Aug 4, 2015 14:59:20 GMT -5
I'll differ on the Divas revolution. They continually promote Nikki's reign as a huge deal, but she was pinned last night by Charlotte & it meant nothing compared to the obvious bullet point to hammer home Submission Sorority as the collective name of Paige, Becky & Charlotte.
A near record breaking title reign for a heel should be something we all can't wait to see end. They could change the title on a house show to Alicia Fox and it wouldn't matter.
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Post by thegame415 on Aug 4, 2015 17:13:44 GMT -5
My biggest problem is we don't know enough about any of these characters to invest time in them. In th Attitude Era, every character had goals. Good tv shows and movies, the main characters have a goal they want to achieve.
In a fantasy booking I do with my friend, we set up overall goals from WM to SummerSlam for the top dogs, and monthly goals for others.
Reigns goal is to get back the WWE title (he briefly won it at WM).
Ambrose's goal is to prove he's not the lame duck of the shield.
Wyatt's goal is to achieve celebrity status.
Ortons goal is to prove he still has it.
Kevin Owens goal is to provide for his family, and get his kids to wear his t-shirts instead of Cena shirts.
If we give them goals, it makes more reason to watch every week.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Aug 4, 2015 20:09:41 GMT -5
Because we'll cheer who he wants us to dammit?
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Post by Diamond Cutter Out of Nowhere! on Aug 4, 2015 21:29:48 GMT -5
I feel like the issue is that WWE believes the majority of their audience will watch no matter what. They're the only real game in town and it makes them lazy. Positive effect of this is me catching way more baseball games than I used to.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 4, 2015 21:34:09 GMT -5
I feel like the issue is that WWE believes the majority of their audience will watch no matter what. They're the only real game in town and it makes them lazy. Positive effect of this is me catching way more baseball games than I used to. Being the only game in town should make them feel more leeway to try new things. Having no competition should make WWE feel more inclined to feature unproven talent. "what are you gonna do? Change the channel to Nitro? Oh wait" should be a reason to give more screen time to less established guys, not to do more of the same.
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Post by Diamond Cutter Out of Nowhere! on Aug 4, 2015 21:52:30 GMT -5
I feel like the issue is that WWE believes the majority of their audience will watch no matter what. They're the only real game in town and it makes them lazy. Positive effect of this is me catching way more baseball games than I used to. Being the only game in town should make them feel more leeway to try new things. Having no competition should make WWE feel more inclined to feature unproven talent. "what are you gonna do? Change the channel to Nitro? Oh wait" should be a reason to give more screen time to less established guys, not to do more of the same. No argument here, but whenever they do try something new (ex: Owens beating Cena clean) and they see a little bit of a loss in merch sales or a little bit of change in viewership they immediately panic and go back to the norm. They could very well be getting ready to do that at Summerslam if they have Cena beat Rollins. They SHOULD be trying new things, but they default back to what they know works or what they're comfortable with time and time again.
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