paywindah
Dennis Stamp
He's goin' to da paywindah here on da muddaship TBS.
Posts: 3,678
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Post by paywindah on Aug 24, 2015 21:09:04 GMT -5
So you have terrible booking with the focus on the older Divas that can't perform at the level of the NXT callups.
The crowd hates it which just feeds into Vince's preconceived beliefs about women's wrestling and nothing will ever get better.
Sad.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Aug 24, 2015 21:12:20 GMT -5
I don't buy into this idea that we have to like the bad segments we're being given or else we're just never happy and ought to go back to the way things used to be. The crowd tonight was definitely not helpful in the goddamn least, but it needs to be put across clear to WWE that what they've done isn't good enough. WWE isn't putting any effort into this revolution, and the onus isn't on us to just eat shit and like it. This needs to be criticized, and it needs to rejected in a way that is constructive and makes it clear that we want more. Bayley/Sasha was f***ing proof that people can be very happy with women's wrestling and have been for the longest time, so the doomsaying crap I've seen thrown around implying that we're just never happy needs to be put down, or else WWE wins; the only thing they're giving the women is more time, and to say that it's good enough is to let them get off easy and not actually examine the problems with how they're presenting women. Look, I can see that these segments and matches aren't great. But, to me... Us giving up on them because of it means that they win, and the change that we want so bad to happen will never happen. We really have to try and ride it out.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Aug 24, 2015 21:13:23 GMT -5
All great revolutions die after the first loss. Send the women home and let Dunn and Co. celebrate.
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Post by lookout on Aug 24, 2015 21:15:50 GMT -5
So you have terrible booking with the focus on the older Divas that can't perform at the level of the NXT callups. The crowd hates it which just feeds into Vince's preconceived beliefs about women's wrestling and nothing will ever get better. Sad. Yep and that's what is so depressing because you know its going to happen since vince is so out of touch and That old fool can't see what's happening. The only real hope I have is they have a strong ally in hhh.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Aug 24, 2015 21:16:13 GMT -5
"Phew! Glad they're not calling me up!"
- Bayley
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 24, 2015 21:17:23 GMT -5
I don't buy into this idea that we have to like the bad segments we're being given or else we're just never happy and ought to go back to the way things used to be. The crowd tonight was definitely not helpful in the goddamn least, but it needs to be put across clear to WWE that what they've done isn't good enough. WWE isn't putting any effort into this revolution, and the onus isn't on us to just eat shit and like it. This needs to be criticized, and it needs to rejected in a way that is constructive and makes it clear that we want more. Bayley/Sasha was f***ing proof that people can be very happy with women's wrestling and have been for the longest time, so the doomsaying crap I've seen thrown around implying that we're just never happy needs to be put down, or else WWE wins; the only thing they're giving the women is more time, and to say that it's good enough is to let them get off easy and not actually examine the problems with how they're presenting women. Look, I can see that these segments and matches aren't great. But, to me... Us giving up on them because of it means that they win, and the change that we want so bad to happen will never happen. We really have to try and ride it out. I think the distinction is that we shouldn't give up on the women, but on what we're being given. They're trying to claim "revolution" by giving the Bellas longer matches than they can actually wrestle in. The change we want so bad will never happen if we allow this to continue; riding it out lets them put in this little bit of effort and nothing else. "Look, people stopped complaining, let's stay here and continue to change nothing". And if that happens, then within a year we'll be happy if women are being given ten minutes to have a match when they're being fed to the Bellas. If this is their motivated and active attempt to change things then once the initial buzz dies down it'll have accomplished nothing.
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Aug 24, 2015 21:27:52 GMT -5
If we support what we are given, that is all we will get. WWE is scared as hell to try new things.
At any rate, the problem tonight lies with Alicia Fox. The crowd was in to Flair dominating, but some how Fox grounds her and does rest holds for what felt like a year, put on the worst stretch muffler ever. No hot tag that would wake the crowd up, and we end with cheating and Fox, who bored the shit out of the crowd getting the win.
One of the first mistakes they made overall was grouping Paige, Becky, and Flair together, 3 of the most talented are the 3 not wrestling each other.
If I had my way I would have brought out the teams, but put Nattie on one and leave Nikki as the odd man out as champ. Tell the teams whichever team gets the most wins by Summer Slam has a 3 way dance, winner of that gets a title shot.
Do a tournament, do something. They have done nothing and it is so damned frustrating.
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Post by Starshine on Aug 24, 2015 21:29:03 GMT -5
What is the revolution anyway? What are they all revolting against? It's never really been clear to me. It's not about the Divas Title, and it's not about treated the same as the male competitors (otherwise that whole Stephanie allocating them into their little play groups thing would have never happened), so what is the end goal of these women? Is it just to get long and heatless matches out of it?
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LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
Posts: 973
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Post by LuchaBella on Aug 24, 2015 21:30:21 GMT -5
So you have terrible booking with the focus on the older Divas that can't perform at the level of the NXT callups. The crowd hates it which just feeds into Vince's preconceived beliefs about women's wrestling and nothing will ever get better. Sad. Yep. And the fact that they don't retrain the divas on the main roster to keep up with the new crop of call ups doesnt help either. Of COURSE Sasha and Bayley was great, they have had time to practice for it to be great. The fact remains, that WWE fans are jerks and the women in the ring tonight now know it. If they all quit tonight I wouldn't blame them. Who wants to wrestle for people like that? Why even bother trying? I see none of the fans going into the ring with all their armchair expertise and doing ANY better. If anyone here can do better, and win the crowd over, I'd love to see it. I'll wait.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 21:33:51 GMT -5
You know, the last time WWE did stupid shit with a wrestler that people wanted to see succeed...
Segments and entire shows were hijacked.
Considering this is an entire division smothered by relentless mediocrity, I kinda wonder what fans are going to do when they're fed up with it.
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,273
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Aug 24, 2015 21:34:11 GMT -5
So you have terrible booking with the focus on the older Divas that can't perform at the level of the NXT callups. The crowd hates it which just feeds into Vince's preconceived beliefs about women's wrestling and nothing will ever get better. Sad. Yep. And the fact that they don't retrain the divas on the main roster to keep up with the new crop of call ups doesnt help either. Of COURSE Sasha and Bayley was great, they have had time to practice for it to be great. The fact remains, that WWE fans are jerks and the women in the ring tonight now know it. If they all quit tonight I wouldn't blame them. Who wants to wrestle for people like that? Why even bother trying? I see none of the fans going into the ring with all their armchair expertise and doing ANY better. If anyone here can do better, and win the crowd over, I'd love to see it. I'll wait. That's a terrible argument, pretty sure it's an informal fallacy. The product they are dishing out is not up to snuff. Whether that's because of the booking or talent involved, they both need to change and adapt. We've seen crowds respond well to women's wrestling matches. Almost exclusively in NXT. What the main roster needs to do is figure out some of the reasons WHY NXT's women's matches, even beyond Sasha vs Bayley, get good responses, while RAW and PPV matches don't. If that isn't already obvious to them (IMO, they are sabotaging this angle on purpose).
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stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
#AJAll
Posts: 11,247
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Post by stealthamo on Aug 24, 2015 21:35:56 GMT -5
What is the revolution anyway? What are they all revolting against? It's never really been clear to me. It's not about the Divas Title, and it's not about treated the same as the male competitors (otherwise that whole Stephanie allocating them into their little play groups thing would have never happened), so what is the end goal of these women? Is it just to get long and heatless matches out of it? It's about how Stephanie McMahon is a pioneer for feminism and brought in these great women wrestlers from NXT to #GiveDivasAChance. That's it.
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LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
Posts: 973
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Post by LuchaBella on Aug 24, 2015 21:41:02 GMT -5
Yep. And the fact that they don't retrain the divas on the main roster to keep up with the new crop of call ups doesnt help either. Of COURSE Sasha and Bayley was great, they have had time to practice for it to be great. The fact remains, that WWE fans are jerks and the women in the ring tonight now know it. If they all quit tonight I wouldn't blame them. Who wants to wrestle for people like that? Why even bother trying? I see none of the fans going into the ring with all their armchair expertise and doing ANY better. If anyone here can do better, and win the crowd over, I'd love to see it. I'll wait. That's a terrible argument, pretty sure it's an informal fallacy. The product they are dishing out is not up to snuff. Whether that's because of the booking or talent involved, they both need to change and adapt. We've seen crowds respond well to women's wrestling matches. Almost exclusively in NXT. What the main roster needs to do is figure out some of the reasons WHY NXT's women's matches, even beyond Sasha vs Bayley, get good responses, while RAW and PPV matches don't. If that isn't already obvious to them (IMO, they are sabotaging this angle on purpose). Its not a terrible argument. The product is CLEARLY not up to snuff. With time comes change, which is great. I love Charlotte and cried when she debuted. Because honestly, she's one of my favorites. Now. Instead of having these girls on TV every week,they should rotate them and during the off time,have them train with the NXT girls, to improve the product. But WWE doesn't want to do that. Why? God only knows. Because it would make sense to improve the overall division and make it a powerhouse. Maybe its too much effort required. Maybe Vince is a dinosaur and doesn't want to let go of the ideals that he had for.women's wrestling. I don't know. What I do know,is that Stephanie is doing NOTHING for women's wrestling other than pushing buzzwords and trying to profit from it. Meanwhile all the women wrestlers suffer. And the crowds eat it up. Its old. And its tired. If they invest as much time into training the girls on the main roster as they do the girls in NXT, it would be better overall.
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,273
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Aug 24, 2015 21:44:29 GMT -5
That's a terrible argument, pretty sure it's an informal fallacy. The product they are dishing out is not up to snuff. Whether that's because of the booking or talent involved, they both need to change and adapt. We've seen crowds respond well to women's wrestling matches. Almost exclusively in NXT. What the main roster needs to do is figure out some of the reasons WHY NXT's women's matches, even beyond Sasha vs Bayley, get good responses, while RAW and PPV matches don't. If that isn't already obvious to them (IMO, they are sabotaging this angle on purpose). Its not a terrible argument. The product is CLEARLY not up to snuff. With time comes change, which is great. I love Charlotte and cried when she debuted. Because honestly, she's one of my favorites. Now. Instead of having these girls on TV every week,they should rotate them and during the off time,have them train with the NXT girls, to improve the product. But WWE doesn't want to do that. Why? God only knows. Because it would make sense to improve the overall division and make it a powerhouse. Maybe its too much effort required. Maybe Vince is a dinosaur and doesn't want to let go of the ideals that he had for.women's wrestling. I don't know. What I do know,is that Stephanie is doing NOTHING for women's wrestling other than pushing buzzwords and trying to profit from it. Meanwhile all the women wrestlers suffer. And the crowds eat it up. Its old. And its tired. If they invest as much time into training the girls on the main roster as they do the girls in NXT, it would be better overall. I meant the fans argument.
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LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
Posts: 973
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Post by LuchaBella on Aug 24, 2015 21:50:08 GMT -5
I meant the fans argument. I really would like to see some do better. As irritated at the fans in the crowd as I got, the number 1 problem is this: THE WWE/Vince/Dunn. As long as Vince is at the top... Its been said over and over and over. Its like Vince and Dixie get together to discuss how to sabotage their own wrestlers.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 21:53:32 GMT -5
I really would like to see some do better. As irritated at the fans in the crowd as I got, the number 1 problem is this: THE WWE/Vince/Dunn. As long as Vince is at the top... Its been said over and over and over. Its like Vince and Dixie get together to discuss how to sabotage their own wrestlers. It's not as though the crowd was chanting "you can't wrestle" or anything inherently disrespectful. They were bored and trying to entertain themselves. The crowd wasn't obligated to like the match just because it involved some talented people.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Aug 24, 2015 21:57:43 GMT -5
I meant the fans argument. I really would like to see some do better. As irritated at the fans in the crowd as I got, the number 1 problem is this: THE WWE/Vince/Dunn. As long as Vince is at the top... Its been said over and over and over. Its like Vince and Dixie get together to discuss how to sabotage their own wrestlers. I challenge the Bellas to try to do what the fans do night after night through blood sweat and tears, under the condition they quit pro wrestling
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LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
Posts: 973
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Post by LuchaBella on Aug 24, 2015 21:59:17 GMT -5
I really would like to see some do better. As irritated at the fans in the crowd as I got, the number 1 problem is this: THE WWE/Vince/Dunn. As long as Vince is at the top... Its been said over and over and over. Its like Vince and Dixie get together to discuss how to sabotage their own wrestlers. I challenge the Bellas to try to do what the fans do night after night through blood sweat and tears, under the condition they quit pro wrestling The fans sit on their behinds and watch TV. Anyone can do that.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Aug 24, 2015 22:01:52 GMT -5
I challenge the Bellas to try to do what the fans do night after night through blood sweat and tears, under the condition they quit pro wrestling The fans sit on their behinds and watch TV. Anyone can do that. Words are cheap i need video ecidence of them quitting wrestling and going to shows for 20 years otherwise they aint proved nothing.
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LuchaBella
Team Rocket
No pants = heathen
Be careful with me.., it's not a threat, it's a warnin'
Posts: 973
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Post by LuchaBella on Aug 24, 2015 22:02:53 GMT -5
I really would like to see some do better. As irritated at the fans in the crowd as I got, the number 1 problem is this: THE WWE/Vince/Dunn. As long as Vince is at the top... Its been said over and over and over. Its like Vince and Dixie get together to discuss how to sabotage their own wrestlers. It's not as though the crowd was chanting "you can't wrestle" or anything inherently disrespectful. They were bored and trying to entertain themselves. The crowd wasn't obligated to like the match just because it involved some talented people. Watching NJPW shows and seeing the crowds watching the shows quietly and full of respect, and then seeing the shit show that is the WWE, its two different worlds. When I'm bored, I play games on my phone. I don't disrespect people who are working hard to entertain a crowd. I know better than that.
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