Sicho100
Hank Scorpio
Easily Confused.
Posts: 5,962
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Post by Sicho100 on Aug 27, 2015 15:56:43 GMT -5
I actually am with most others here - it's too early to say that HHH would be better in Vince's spot (and I say this as someone who thinks that Vince is doing a terrible job). There is the matter of having to juggle many outside interests in making the show, plus the fact that NXT only has one hour of TV per week, which is taped a month at a time (so HHH doesn't even have the chance to change the story on a weekly basis like Vince does). Plus, HHH, as an on-screen character, needs to be limited to, at most, being like he has been in NXT (basically, little more than a cheerleader). Otherwise, we'll just keep getting the HHH that is sexier, stronger, smarter, and cooler than everyone else. Vince was unusual in his ability to succeed as a booker with an on-screen character, and that's because he was willing to embarrass himself on the show. I doubt HHH would assume that role, even after he takes over completely, and instead fall back into the "Am I f***ing going over?!?" Triple H. How much booking does he actually do? Like, I'm sure he picks who wins titles, and what feuds make it onto the Takeover cards, who gets a push... but beyond that, I doubt the ins-and-outs of the storylines and certainly the gimmicks are all that much to do with him. I get the impression that his strength is hiring and listening to the right people, rather than shackling everyone into doing things his way and only valuing the opinion of a handful of yes-men, like Vince has reputedly been prone to do. If someone's good at their job, he trusts them and lets them get on with it. Well, we can also ask that same question about Vince in regards to the main roster - after all, Triple H is EVP of creative. To what extent is the shitty booking on the main roster from the creative team (which would reflect onto HHH), and to what extent is the shitty booking from Vince?
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gr1990
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,485
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Post by gr1990 on Aug 27, 2015 16:03:07 GMT -5
I actually am with most others here - it's too early to say that HHH would be better in Vince's spot (and I say this as someone who thinks that Vince is doing a terrible job). There is the matter of having to juggle many outside interests in making the show, plus the fact that NXT only has one hour of TV per week, which is taped a month at a time (so HHH doesn't even have the chance to change the story on a weekly basis like Vince does). Plus, HHH, as an on-screen character, needs to be limited to, at most, being like he has been in NXT (basically, little more than a cheerleader). Otherwise, we'll just keep getting the HHH that is sexier, stronger, smarter, and cooler than everyone else. Vince was unusual in his ability to succeed as a booker with an on-screen character, and that's because he was willing to embarrass himself on the show. I doubt HHH would assume that role, even after he takes over completely, and instead fall back into the "Am I f***ing going over?!?" Triple H. How much booking does he actually do? Like, I'm sure he picks who wins titles, and what feuds make it onto the Takeover cards, who gets a push... but beyond that, I doubt the ins-and-outs of the storylines and certainly the gimmicks are all that much to do with him. I get the impression that his strength is hiring and listening to the right people, rather than shackling everyone into doing things his way and only valuing the opinion of a handful of yes-men, like Vince has reputedly been prone to do. If someone's good at their job, he trusts them and lets them get on with it. Well, we can also ask that same question about Vince in regards to the main roster - after all, Triple H is EVP of creative. To what extent is the shitty booking on the main roster from the creative team (which would reflect onto HHH), and to what extent is the shitty booking from Vince? Thing is though, there's so many stories of Vince re-writing shows personally at the last minute, shooting down any idea he doesn't relate to etc, so no matter who is in charge of Creative, the show is going to be moulded more in Vince's image than any other. I get the impression Hunter has a few directives of things he wants to happen and just lets the guys down in Florida handle the nuts and bolts. They have two or three writers assigned specifically to NXT, plus guys like Regal and previously Dusty chipping in, and the talent seem to get a lot more freedom over their characters. It just gives off the vibe of a collaborative effort helmed by a much more open-minded guy who trusts other people's judgement a lot more than the main roster does.
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Post by Andy Martin on Aug 27, 2015 16:04:33 GMT -5
They're different sides of the same coin.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 16:29:53 GMT -5
HHH turned NXT from a developmental program to a super-indie show.
How many top NXT guys really needed "development" in the past couple years? Maybe a little adjustment so they can adapt to the WWE corporate culture, but other than that I've seen very little difference in most of the NXT->WWE guys from their days outside WWE.
Beyond that, most of the guys who will succeed in NXT were trained up significantly by another school and are just working out their gimmicks. That leaves guys like Baron Corbin, Mojo Rawley, etc who are pure NXT products and...well, they're trying, but with addition of all the "rookie veterans," the difference is painfully obvious.
Enzo is obviously an exception because he's getting over on his natural charisma.
So yeah, HHH is better than Vince, but mostly in terms of hiring talent. Regarding everything else....not enough input to calculate a result.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Aug 27, 2015 17:08:30 GMT -5
If you couldn't book wrestling more effectively than a senile old dude, I'd be kinda worried...
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Post by xCompackx on Aug 27, 2015 17:52:53 GMT -5
It's tough to say what anyone would do as the chairman of a global multi-million dollar organization, but HHH seems to be doing a great job in his role so far.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 27, 2015 18:10:26 GMT -5
Triple H doesn't book NXT, which is honestly why I think he's a step in the right direction. The guy gambled his entire corporate standing on his very costly vision of the developmental system and is now trying to turn his farm into a touring and high-profile brand doesn't micromanage every last aspect of his little slice of product. He totally could, given Vince's superhuman ability to handle running the company and its creative end at the expense of actually sleeping, but he chooses to let people with the right ideas deal with things. It gives me hope for a three-hour show that isn't rewritten ninety minutes before showtime, with constant shifts in what he wants that lead to nobody being a point of interest long enough to get over because he's moved on to other, "newer" toys. Every time a story comes out about Vince and Triple H disagreeing about something (like Charlotte vs Natalya on Raw last year) Triple H is the one who has the "right" idea.
I don't think he needs to be better than Vince at doing the highly specific batshit that Vince runs his company with. He just needs to be good in his position and surround himself with good people. So far, he's done exactly that. Modern Vince McMahon is the greatest possible argument against having somebody handle every aspect of the entire company themself.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 18:40:00 GMT -5
HHH going after indie companies like Vince went after the territories.
Making daddy proud.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,471
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Aug 27, 2015 18:56:46 GMT -5
I simply can't put HHH above Vince at this point. With everything Vince has accomplished it will take a long time for HHH to be considered as his equal or better. Right now HHH is putting out a better product but I don't find Vince horrible and I've enjoyed the main product lately (and more times than not) and have never been disappointing at a live experience. HHH going after indie companies like Vince went after the territories. Making daddy proud. Why is this a problem? WWE has to constantly look for new talent and indy promotions are a great place to scout/find talent. Only indy company he did anything to was ROH and that was mainly due to a licensing agreement.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 18:59:29 GMT -5
I simply can't put HHH above Vince at this point. With everything Vince has accomplished it will take a long time for HHH to be considered as his equal or better. Right now HHH is putting out a better product but I don't find Vince horrible and I've enjoyed the main product lately (and more times than not) and have never been disappointing at a live experience. HHH going after indie companies like Vince went after the territories. Making daddy proud. Why is this a problem? WWE has to constantly look for new talent and indy promotions are a great place to scout/find talent. Only indy company he did anything to was ROH and that was mainly due to a licensing agreement. Because they've built NXT as the ultimate "indie" company to corner all markets. It's good business, but sleazy to me.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 27, 2015 19:00:31 GMT -5
Quoting this from another thread NXT doesn't have anywhere near the same responsibility to it as RAW and Smackdown does. For starters it's far easier to write 1 hour worth of weekly content than 5... but keeping the single vision style of NXT (instead of changing htings at the last minute) will most certainly help... that aside NXT is not beholden to sponsors or a network, also since it is such a small part of the company's profit margins the shareholders probably don't have much input into it as they would the rest of the company as well.
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Post by benstudd on Aug 27, 2015 20:47:16 GMT -5
Vince has a 100% control of everything that happens on RAW. He's there all the time and approves everything.
How much Hunter does on NXT? I have my doubts that he's always there. In fact I would like to know if Dave Meltzer has any info about that.
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Post by xCompackx on Aug 27, 2015 20:51:36 GMT -5
Vince has a 100% control of everything that happens on RAW. He's there all the time and approves everything. How much Hunter does on NXT? I have my doubts that he's always there. In fact I would like to know if Dave Meltzer has any info about that. Well we know that HHH has a live feed of the PC in his office, that he's heavily involved with character ideas and changes, and that he's at least in charge of all the Takeover events. I'd say that HHH has as close to 100% as you can get without being Vince. Production and all that is probably handled by Full Sail guys.
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Post by benstudd on Aug 27, 2015 20:59:13 GMT -5
Vince has a 100% control of everything that happens on RAW. He's there all the time and approves everything. How much Hunter does on NXT? I have my doubts that he's always there. In fact I would like to know if Dave Meltzer has any info about that. Well we know that HHH has a live feed of the PC in his office, that he's heavily involved with character ideas and changes, and that he's at least in charge of all the Takeover events. I'd say that HHH has as close to 100% as you can get without being Vince. Production and all that is probably handled by Full Sail guys. I would like to know how really involved he is other than fans earsays.
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Post by xCompackx on Aug 27, 2015 21:01:41 GMT -5
Well we know that HHH has a live feed of the PC in his office, that he's heavily involved with character ideas and changes, and that he's at least in charge of all the Takeover events. I'd say that HHH has as close to 100% as you can get without being Vince. Production and all that is probably handled by Full Sail guys. I would like to know how really involved he is other than fans earsays. Well, the examples I mentioned were taken from an interview of HHH saying he had a live feed of the PC in his office, the ESPN special where he's shown pitching different character changes, and from the fact that HHH has been at every Takeover event so far. I don't feel like we need that much official confirmation.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,471
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Aug 27, 2015 21:02:01 GMT -5
The biggest difference I've seen is in their approach.
Both Vince and HHH have a vision of what they want their product to be and ultimately steer the product in that direction. That leadership is what sets WWE apart from companies like TNA.
Difference is that Vince seems to micromanage everything and wants a hand in everything while HHH appears to be content with giving creative/talent a direction and letting them have the freedom on how they want to get there. Thus you see more natural charisma from the wrestlers/performers than you do many times in WWE.
Bayley, with minimal interviews, has a more developed persona and character than Paige who has been on the mic multiple times on the main show. Difference is Bayley was able to grow organically while Paige has been overbooked to death with forces catchphrases ("Mah House")
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 27, 2015 21:11:31 GMT -5
I simply can't put HHH above Vince at this point. With everything Vince has accomplished it will take a long time for HHH to be considered as his equal or better. Right now HHH is putting out a better product but I don't find Vince horrible and I've enjoyed the main product lately (and more times than not) and have never been disappointing at a live experience. Why is this a problem? WWE has to constantly look for new talent and indy promotions are a great place to scout/find talent. Only indy company he did anything to was ROH and that was mainly due to a licensing agreement. Because they've built NXT as the ultimate "indie" company to corner all markets. It's good business, but sleazy to me. Someone had to be the alternative. TNA had their shot. They blew it. WWE ultimately found the solution. They'd create their own alternative product. And it's worked.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 21:15:02 GMT -5
Because they've built NXT as the ultimate "indie" company to corner all markets. It's good business, but sleazy to me. Someone had to be the alternative. TNA had their shot. They blew it. WWE ultimately found the solution. They'd create their own alternative product. And it's worked. I still don't like the idea of it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 21:20:16 GMT -5
Quoting this from another thread NXT doesn't have anywhere near the same responsibility to it as RAW and Smackdown does. For starters it's far easier to write 1 hour worth of weekly content than 5... but keeping the single vision style of NXT (instead of changing htings at the last minute) will most certainly help... that aside NXT is not beholden to sponsors or a network, also since it is such a small part of the company's profit margins the shareholders probably don't have much input into it as they would the rest of the company as well. I think that absolves WWE of some responsibility but it's not like the conversation is "we're gonna debut the NXT women, strip them of identity and have Stephanie assign them teams because sponsors." I know it's easy to armchair quarterback and just say "they should try harder" but...it wouldn't hurt to try a little harder. You can look at it like it's a burden or you can look at it like this is more time to flesh out characters. If they loosened the leash and let wrestlers cut promos they'd save they'd spend scripting it word for word, if they thought ahead more often some storylines would write themselves. I get that it's easy to just book matches cold and fill time but at some point you gotta dedicate more time to letting audiences connect more with their roster and sponsors and heavy workloads don't really excuse it. To book WWE is certainly more challenging but that doesn't mean they can't prioritize better.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Aug 28, 2015 2:13:16 GMT -5
For all of you wondering, pretty sure HHHhas final say on every booking decision, like Vince on the mr
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