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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Aug 28, 2015 14:02:22 GMT -5
I think that there is a middle term. In one hand lots of guys hated those "indy darlings" because they were big fanboys of the WWE style and saw nothing on them, or just because they wanted to look cool in wrestling forums just to be the opposition force.
In the other hand, lots of guys were saying that the solution to the WWE to get their "abysmal" ratings back then was to hire this indy darlings that will lead to a new boom period, some of them worked (punk, bryan, etc) and others not (chris hero, cabana, etc) and even those that worked hadn't moved the needle for the company. A big fault in this lays on the WWE itself, but so did back in the day were people were clamoring for their saviors
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Aug 28, 2015 15:42:44 GMT -5
Bayley, "The Godmother". She pimps out "Too Sexy" Sami Zayn and "Beefcake" Bull Dempsey to get free victories over divas. Book it right now Bayley: Now, Tamina, you look like you could use a better outlet to release your pent up anger. So, instead of fighting me, how about you take ride on the BBBBRRRROOOOOO-TRAIN!? Tamina: I'll take them both. I imagine her dressed exactly the same, with her WAFITM and all, but with a tiny bowler hat perched atop her ponytail.
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Aug 28, 2015 16:01:30 GMT -5
Bayley, "The Godmother". She pimps out "Too Sexy" Sami Zayn and "Beefcake" Bull Dempsey to get free victories over divas. Book it right now Bayley: Now, Tamina, you look like you could use a better outlet to release your pent up anger. So, instead of fighting me, how about you take ride on the BBBBRRRROOOOOO-TRAIN!? Tamina: I'll take them both. Didn't think Tamina was hardcore.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Aug 28, 2015 16:47:25 GMT -5
Anti-IWC and contrarian logic has gradually made less and less sense.
You've only got to look at Enzo being beloved by smarks everywhere to realise that the various workrate and indy darling arguments have some big flaws in them.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 28, 2015 17:48:30 GMT -5
There should be a forum filter that replaces the term "indy darling" with "experienced wrestler" It's one of the dumbest things to demonize that I've ever seen. Especially because there are plenty of people who've never watched an indy match in their lives, who would say that Daniel Bryan or Dean Ambrose or Seth Rollins are their favourite wrestlers. Personally, I've never watched anything but WWF/E, a tiny bit of WCW and some TNA when Christian was there (and also the wrestling on ITV's World of Sport, back in the 80s), but I like these supposed indy darlings just fine. They're good at what they do, which is all that should matter. I don't think that NXT needs to be saturated with them, of course. They should push the likes of Breeze, Jordan & Gable and other homegrown (or relatively homegrown) stars too. Also, this is wrong. It's quite clearly Elsa, even if she was a dastardly German spy. I am the same. I used to watch ECW, WCW, still occasionally TNA, and anyone who hasn't been in them when I watched I only have their WWE stuff to go on, and many of them have still immensely impressed me. Guys like Owens, for example - he is probably in my FAVE FIVE right now and I only know the past nine months of his work. Sami Zayn, by contrast, I don't care for. The Indy darling culture only exists at certain shows, in smark towns. And a lot of guys I like are from WWE, like Rusev. New Day is 2/3 home grown, plus a guy who I thought was terrible when he was in TNA.
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN (Nana is BUNS) on Aug 28, 2015 17:51:42 GMT -5
Kevin Nash lost interest in the internet that long ago? Kevin Nash blew out his quad reading this.
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on Aug 28, 2015 18:45:57 GMT -5
My favorite Indy Darling? Probably Marion. Easily. I think there's still a subsection of people who are annoyed with the "indy darling" crowd (I know a few myself), but it's great seeing guys getting their due on big stages, especially since it's working out for a lot of them.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Aug 28, 2015 21:10:46 GMT -5
I genuinly hope people don't actually use terms like that in 2015. They, along with "Spot monkey" should only be uttered by bitter, old, irrelevant wrestlers of yore.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 28, 2015 22:04:05 GMT -5
I genuinly hope people don't actually use terms like that in 2015. They, along with "Spot monkey" should only be uttered by bitter, old, irrelevant wrestlers of yore. Those terms are valid. The problem is when it becomes a blanket term to generalize all indy wrestlers (or WWE wrestlers who originated in the indies).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 23:04:19 GMT -5
Anti-IWC and contrarian logic has gradually made less and less sense. You've only got to look at Enzo being beloved by smarks everywhere to realise that the various workrate and indy darling arguments have some big flaws in them. Bada-boom. Realest post in the room.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Aug 29, 2015 3:25:14 GMT -5
Anti-IWC and contrarian logic has gradually made less and less sense. You've only got to look at Enzo being beloved by smarks everywhere to realise that the various workrate and indy darling arguments have some big flaws in them. The problem is that even that argument doesn't change a very important part of that: If a PROMOTION has enough indy cred as a whole, then it can give its homegrowns indy credibility by virtue of working for them. Indeed, it's a good test to see how much indy cred the promotion has to see how the homegrowns break out as smark darlings, and how that plummets as the smark cred for the promotion plummets (TNA early in their existence vs. TNA late in the existence is a great example there.)
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Woo
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Post by Woo on Aug 29, 2015 6:31:46 GMT -5
I think that there is a middle term. In one hand lots of guys hated those "indy darlings" because they were big fanboys of the WWE style and saw nothing on them, or just because they wanted to look cool in wrestling forums just to be the opposition force. In the other hand, lots of guys were saying that the solution to the WWE to get their "abysmal" ratings back then was to hire this indy darlings that will lead to a new boom period, some of them worked (punk, bryan, etc) and others not (chris hero, cabana, etc) and even those that worked hadn't moved the needle for the company. A big fault in this lays on the WWE itself, but so did back in the day were people were clamoring for their saviors While I agree with you in some respects poor Colt Cabana was never given a fair chance!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 6:35:51 GMT -5
Yep. More people watched Crash Holly as hardcore champion than have ever watched John Cena as WWE champion. Then what is your point? That wrestling has booms and lows? Also Crash Holly is another former indie wrestler by the way... As is John Cena.
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Woo
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Post by Woo on Aug 29, 2015 6:39:20 GMT -5
Then what is your point? That wrestling has booms and lows? Also Crash Holly is another former indie wrestler by the way... As is John Cena. Which is why the hatred on indie wrestlers never makes any sense. It always seems to be "The indie wrestlers in the WWE now are fine, but the rest are awful! Well apart from CM Punk and Daniel Bryan and Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose. Okay that Kevin Owens is good and Sami Zayn's not bad... Neville's alright too..." It's as if they think the WWE saw Mark Calaway in the street and went, "we'll put a hat on him and call him the Undertaker and teach him to wrestle!"
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Post by benstudd on Aug 29, 2015 6:49:39 GMT -5
8 million people used to watch Brian Christopher and the Godfather on Monday nights. 3 million watch your so called Indy darlings on Monday nights now. But let's call this a new golden age for sports entertainment. Except of course that both of them were indie wrestlers before being signed, with the Godfather having wrestled in Japan for a spell too Much like all the other indie stars that made it big during the WWE's biggest eras. Oh and yes, I suppose it is the NXT guys to blame for the loss of ratings despite Cena, HHH and Orton being the ones on top for the last decade. Damn they should hire body builders instead. Well I don't think Godfather was the sort of no-charisma vanilla midget spot-monkeys that people were talking about.
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Woo
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Post by Woo on Aug 29, 2015 7:03:44 GMT -5
Except of course that both of them were indie wrestlers before being signed, with the Godfather having wrestled in Japan for a spell too Much like all the other indie stars that made it big during the WWE's biggest eras. Oh and yes, I suppose it is the NXT guys to blame for the loss of ratings despite Cena, HHH and Orton being the ones on top for the last decade. Damn they should hire body builders instead. Well I don't think Godfather was the sort of no-charisma vanilla midget spot-monkeys that people were talking about. Were they talking about Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Kevin Owens, Dean Ambrose or Sami Zayn? No, they weren't talking about anybody as they hadn't seen any indie wrestling. Those comments were made by people who refused to believe the notion that there might be better wrestling outside their beloved WWE sometimes and were ignorant to independent wrestling and just believed what they'd be led to believe that all indie wrestlers were boring guys doing flips.
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Jeff Mangum PI
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Aug 29, 2015 7:27:55 GMT -5
I get the feeling that the people that say "indy darlings" or "vanilla midgets" in 2015 are the same people that were incensed by the curtain call at Takeover Brooklyn.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 29, 2015 9:29:42 GMT -5
no-charisma vanilla midget spot-monkeys To be fair, Jack Evans still hasn't made it to WWE.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Aug 29, 2015 9:47:00 GMT -5
I think Vanilla Midget only applied to Daniel Bryan, Austin Aries, Davey Richards, probably could say Finn Balor would have been one. No one was calling Jon Moxley, Tyler Black, Kevin Steen, El Generico, or Claudio Castagnoli vanilla midgets. These are all big, pro athlete sized men.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 29, 2015 15:19:39 GMT -5
I think Vanilla Midget only applied to Daniel Bryan, Austin Aries, Davey Richards, probably could say Finn Balor would have been one. No one was calling Jon Moxley, Tyler Black, Kevin Steen, El Generico, or Claudio Castagnoli vanilla midgets. These are all big, pro athlete sized men. AR Fox and Ricochet are caramel midgets. Rich Swann and ACH are chocolate midgets.
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