jmule
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,274 
|
Post by jmule on Sept 28, 2015 10:17:21 GMT -5
I was watching a couple of el matador matches and was thinking, this did nothing for Santana..
He changed his tights and grew a ponytail.
He was still the same Tito Santana.
His character and wrestling style was the same, he was the same JTTS, his position didn't go up or down. So what was the point?
Koko comes to mind too..did forming high energy with Owen change koko at all? I'm drawing a blank...
|
|
|
|
Post by James Fabiano on Sept 28, 2015 10:28:49 GMT -5
Repo Man. Full face mask.
Masked Demolition, for that matter.
|
|
|
|
Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Sept 28, 2015 10:38:51 GMT -5
Really looking back on it. Not sure if this counts but I am going with it. Unmasking Kane. He returns from injury in the last half of 02. He was Upper Mid Carder who got a title shot but didn't win. After that became tag champions with RVD who was in the same spot upper Mid Carder with title shots at HHH. He turns heel with the unmasking beats RVD and feuds with Shane and goes back to more the same. Gets a World title shot in a triple threat gets feed to the returning Deadman Taker goes against Benoit for a title shot and not win. Turns back face with the whole Snitsky thing.
Godfather heel turn in 02 was pointless. Took away what got him over to becoming a C show regular that drew hardly a reaction, so went no where.
|
|
|
|
Post by tigermaskxxxvii on Sept 28, 2015 11:09:07 GMT -5
I was watching a couple of el matador matches and was thinking, this did nothing for Santana.. He changed his tights and grew a ponytail. He was still the same Tito Santana. His character and wrestling style was the same, he was the same JTTS, his position didn't go up or down. So what was the point? Koko comes to mind too..did forming high energy with Owen change koko at all? I'm drawing a blank... But now Vince can copyright "El Matador". So there's that! Did WWE have to get a new copyright for Los Matadores? Or are they covered seeing as how it is derivative of El Matador? |
|
|
|
Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Sept 28, 2015 12:27:15 GMT -5
I was watching a couple of el matador matches and was thinking, this did nothing for Santana.. He changed his tights and grew a ponytail. He was still the same Tito Santana. His character and wrestling style was the same, he was the same JTTS, his position didn't go up or down. So what was the point? Koko comes to mind too..did forming high energy with Owen change koko at all? I'm drawing a blank... Tito actually got a decent push during his first five months as El Matador as he was undefeated in the gimmick until Wrestlemania and was beating Dibiase on the house shows during their feud. Then he lost to Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania and started to fall closer to his JTTS role he had before he was repackaged. As far as the point of it, I think it was just to give Tito a more distinct gimmick since he was one of the few guys on the roster that didn't really have one, and a much needed makeover as he was looking dumb still wrestling in his Strike Force gear two years after the team split up. |
|
Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,277
|
Post by Push R Truth on Sept 28, 2015 12:33:20 GMT -5
I'll go with something current: The only difference between Sheamus gimmicks is Heel/Face, minor accessories like a King's Crown/Cape/Necklace and how stupid is hair looks. Position on the card doesn't change much. He's always "Could compete for the title at any moment but normally is squashing midcarders". His moves, promos and gear doesn't change much. The difference between face and heel Sheamus is if you get a brogue kick after he smiles at you as a heel. And he did that plenty as a face anyway  |
|
|
|
Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Sept 28, 2015 13:30:52 GMT -5
Superstar Billy Graham
|
|
|
|
Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 28, 2015 14:40:59 GMT -5
I'll go with something current: The only difference between Sheamus gimmicks is Heel/Face, minor accessories like a King's Crown/Cape/Necklace and how stupid is hair looks. Position on the card doesn't change much. He's always "Could compete for the title at any moment but normally is squashing midcarders". His moves, promos and gear doesn't change much. The difference between face and heel Sheamus is if you get a brogue kick after he smiles at you as a heel. And he did that plenty as a face anyway You could say the same for Bad News King Wade Barrett. He's been the same guy for his entire run except for changes in entrance attire and facial hair, and the addition/subtraction of a catchphrase. |
|
|
|
Post by Old Baby on Sept 29, 2015 10:03:03 GMT -5
The thing I remember about El Matador was that they were repackaging Tito like "ok kids, Tito is going to be a big deal again" and then for a short while, he was a big deal in the sense that I no longer automatically expected him to job when I saw he was going to be in a match. Tito said Vince sold it to him like it was going to be a big push, and I think Vince probably intended to push Tito, but like so many things in those days, he either forgot about it the next day or saw something new and shiny and changed his mind.
Here's some others:
1. Doink from psychopathic heel who happened to dress like a clown to kid-friendly Bozo the Clown.
2. Avalanche from a continuation of successful Earthquake gimmick to Shark.
3. Butcher from Barber-turned-heel to a maniac who screams "Yes-No!"
4. Norman the Lunatic from endearing nutcase to Trucker Norm, generic hillbilly.
5. Ricky Steamboat the great wrestler (NWA) to Ricky Steamboat the Bruce Lee immitation (WWF).
|
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 29, 2015 11:06:03 GMT -5
I was watching a couple of el matador matches and was thinking, this did nothing for Santana.. He changed his tights and grew a ponytail. He was still the same Tito Santana. His character and wrestling style was the same, he was the same JTTS, his position didn't go up or down. So what was the point? Koko comes to mind too..did forming high energy with Owen change koko at all? I'm drawing a blank... But now Vince can copyright "El Matador". So there's that! Did WWE have to get a new copyright for Los Matadores? Or are they covered seeing as how it is derivative of El Matador? I hate to be "that guy" mostly because someone I detest does the same thing, but Vince can't copyright names. He had them trademarked. And trademarks lapse in much less time than copyrights. |
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 29, 2015 11:08:09 GMT -5
The thing I remember about El Matador was that they were repackaging Tito like "ok kids, Tito is going to be a big deal again" and then for a short while, he was a big deal in the sense that I no longer automatically expected him to job when I saw he was going to be in a match. Tito said Vince sold it to him like it was going to be a big push, and I think Vince probably intended to push Tito, but like so many things in those days, he either forgot about it the next day or saw something new and shiny and changed his mind. Here's some others: 1. Doink from psychopathic heel who happened to dress like a clown to kid-friendly Bozo the Clown. 2. Avalanche from a continuation of successful Earthquake gimmick to Shark. 3. Butcher from Barber-turned-heel to a maniac who screams "Yes-No!" 4. Norman the Lunatic from endearing nutcase to Trucker Norm, generic hillbilly. 5. Ricky Steamboat the great wrestler (NWA) to Ricky Steamboat the Bruce Lee immitation (WWF). Most of those went from bad (or okay) to worse. Not quite the same spirit as the OP, in which a gimmick change literally did nothing to the wrestler's standing, career or otherwise. |
|
|
|
Post by Old Baby on Sept 29, 2015 11:28:52 GMT -5
The thing I remember about El Matador was that they were repackaging Tito like "ok kids, Tito is going to be a big deal again" and then for a short while, he was a big deal in the sense that I no longer automatically expected him to job when I saw he was going to be in a match. Tito said Vince sold it to him like it was going to be a big push, and I think Vince probably intended to push Tito, but like so many things in those days, he either forgot about it the next day or saw something new and shiny and changed his mind. Here's some others: 1. Doink from psychopathic heel who happened to dress like a clown to kid-friendly Bozo the Clown. 2. Avalanche from a continuation of successful Earthquake gimmick to Shark. 3. Butcher from Barber-turned-heel to a maniac who screams "Yes-No!" 4. Norman the Lunatic from endearing nutcase to Trucker Norm, generic hillbilly. 5. Ricky Steamboat the great wrestler (NWA) to Ricky Steamboat the Bruce Lee immitation (WWF). Most of those went from bad (or okay) to worse. Not quite the same spirit as the OP, in which a gimmick change literally did nothing to the wrestler's standing, career or otherwise. Ah, yeah I get what the OP is asking now. After reading several of the other responses it looked like the prevailing train of thought was gimmick downgrades. |
|
efarns
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,273
|
Post by efarns on Sept 29, 2015 11:37:20 GMT -5
The Artist Formerly Known and Prince Iukaea
|
|
|
|
Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Sept 29, 2015 14:05:55 GMT -5
Lenny & Lodi to Lane & Idol/Rave
|
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Sept 30, 2015 2:38:55 GMT -5
Koko comes to mind too..did forming high energy with Owen change koko at all? I'm drawing a blank... Koko teaming with Owen was never about changing him or even about Koko at all, it was more or less an "Oh shit, Neidhart got fired, what other experienced hand have we got who can take Owen under his wing for a while?" situation. They weren't ready to let Owen go solo just yet, and Bret was too far up the card to pair up with him, so Koko was just a warm body. Currently they've got Ryder doing the same thing with Mojo, though God help us if Mojo achieves the same kind of success as Owen. |
|
Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,890
|
Post by Sephiroth on Sept 30, 2015 18:55:34 GMT -5
LOD becomes LOD 2000.
|
|
|
|
Post by gatordone on Oct 1, 2015 19:42:38 GMT -5
Right to Censor. A pimp and a porn star become hardcore conservatives all of a sudden. An they're lead by Ravens lackey who went through a couple of gimmicks before.
|
|
|
|
Post by Old Baby on Oct 1, 2015 19:56:13 GMT -5
WCW-ex-ECW Mike Awesome to Fat Chick Thriller to That 70's Guy to Canadian Guy was a midcard guy who powerbombed people and made people cringe every time he opened his mouth.
|
|
|
|
Post by Starshine on Oct 1, 2015 20:00:44 GMT -5
Epcio and Primo > Los Matadores.
They're still jobbers.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,037
|
Post by Mozenrath on Oct 1, 2015 20:29:54 GMT -5
Right to Censor. A pimp and a porn star become hardcore conservatives all of a sudden. An they're lead by Ravens lackey who went through a couple of gimmicks before. Stevie's move to Steven did increase his prominence a lot, but yeah, Goodfather and Mr. Buchanon were treated at about the same level of credibility. Formidable enough, but not at the level of someone like the Dudleyz without cheating. |
|
