Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 120,893
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 2, 2015 22:48:09 GMT -5
Backstage politics also exist in other forms of entertainment, wrestling is just one of the more obvious places for it since we're fans. Comics, movies, and increasingly obviously at times, sports have them, too.
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Post by willywonka666 on Oct 3, 2015 10:30:53 GMT -5
I remember reading an interview with Hogan in WCW magazine, probably when he was going through the more realistic "Millionaires club" phase and they asked him about backstage pull and he claimed he could stack every title holder on top of the other and have all of their belts
Like him or not, Hogan wouldn't Be where he is now if he didn't do some of the things he did-and let's face it-as Gorilla Monsoon once told Bobby Heenan, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said "if you're in this business for anything besides making money, you're a fool"
Yea, there's a difference between standing up for yourself and pulling backstage politics, but sometimes they go hand in hand and sometimes it gets out of control too
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Oct 3, 2015 12:41:57 GMT -5
I remember reading an interview with Hogan in WCW magazine, probably when he was going through the more realistic "Millionaires club" phase and they asked him about backstage pull and he claimed he could stack every title holder on top of the other and have all of their belts Like him or not, Hogan wouldn't Be where he is now if he didn't do some of the things he did-and let's face it-as Gorilla Monsoon once told Bobby Heenan, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said "if you're in this business for anything besides making money, you're a fool" Yea, there's a difference between standing up for yourself and pulling backstage politics, but sometimes they go hand in hand and sometimes it gets out of control too Chief Jay Strongbow had the best quote ever, "In this business you can make friends or you can make money." Also all those guys that ended up being huge politicians started as jobbers, Scott Hall was a jabroni for a long long time, in AWA and WCW at the beginning, also Nash. If I was in their position I would do the same thing. Specially after everything they went through.
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Post by Martin: #TeamBella Treasurer on Oct 3, 2015 12:49:48 GMT -5
Just like any other job where ther's a corporate ladder to climb; You talk shit about your co-workers/competitors behind their back and self-promote/suck up to the boss. I was going to say the same. You'll find politics in almost all areas of work. Whether it be backstage politics, office politics, locker room politics, shop floor politics. They might not have the same spectacular stories as what comes out of wrestling politics, but it's there.
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Post by johnnytightlips on Oct 3, 2015 18:19:14 GMT -5
Watch the "Kevin Sullivan & the End of WCW" shoot and he'll go one by one through all of the things he wanted to book, all the guys he wanted to push, and then explain why each and everyone one of these things didn't happen. (Hint: Hogan) Which shoot is that, because that sounds fascinating. I've always felt bad for Sullivan as a booker, because it feels like he takes an unreasonable amount of stick for a guy who probably had his hands tied between idiotic corporate edicts and prima donna stars with creative control. WCW Timeline 96' gets an honorable mention.
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Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
Own Nothing, Be Happy
Posts: 6,299
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Post by Sam Punk on Oct 3, 2015 18:32:27 GMT -5
Agreed
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Post by gatordone on Oct 3, 2015 19:06:28 GMT -5
I remember reading an interview with Hogan in WCW magazine, probably when he was going through the more realistic "Millionaires club" phase and they asked him about backstage pull and he claimed he could stack every title holder on top of the other and have all of their belts Like him or not, Hogan wouldn't Be where he is now if he didn't do some of the things he did-and let's face it-as Gorilla Monsoon once told Bobby Heenan, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said "if you're in this business for anything besides making money, you're a fool" Yea, there's a difference between standing up for yourself and pulling backstage politics, but sometimes they go hand in hand and sometimes it gets out of control too Scott Hall once said in this business you can make friends or you can make money. If you're smart, you'll make friends with those that can help you make money.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 3, 2015 21:25:21 GMT -5
You could have a nail boutique with three women working in it, and you'll have backstabbing and politics.
Just part of life.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Oct 3, 2015 22:15:46 GMT -5
I remember reading an interview with Hogan in WCW magazine, probably when he was going through the more realistic "Millionaires club" phase and they asked him about backstage pull and he claimed he could stack every title holder on top of the other and have all of their belts Like him or not, Hogan wouldn't Be where he is now if he didn't do some of the things he did-and let's face it-as Gorilla Monsoon once told Bobby Heenan, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said "if you're in this business for anything besides making money, you're a fool" Yea, there's a difference between standing up for yourself and pulling backstage politics, but sometimes they go hand in hand and sometimes it gets out of control too This. It's a blurry line in my opinion, instead of all backstage politics being bad, because the biggest scoundrels in the business will always be the promoters, who are inherently worried about their business. Hogan(before let's say the past 4 years), still was able to keep his value in this business(financially), while guys like Piper, Flair, Dusty were not treated as special when they came back to the WWE. Now of course, there are alot of caveats with his behavior, typically him getting to involved in other people's stuff, not seeing the big picture, but he typically was able to keep his character at value because he didn't become a JTTS or a legend who came back to look stupid in his later years.
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Post by héad.casé on Oct 4, 2015 17:15:05 GMT -5
Politics is one of the reasons I quit the business (as well as bullying of the newer trainees that had just started on shows, calling the ring announcer stupid for putting forward a match idea). It is mostly guys looking out for themselves and not giving a shit about stepping on someone else or burying someone else as long as they come out smelling like roses. Funnily enough it's always the guys who suck up to the promoter who are the ones on top. In my experience it was anyway. Then there are the guys who believe they're legit badasses because they can beat up and stretch a guy out in his first few months of training. Seen a load of those around too.
It's a business i'm glad to be out of. I miss being in the ring, I don't miss the seedy bullshit that came with it.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,830
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Post by Sephiroth on Oct 4, 2015 19:41:45 GMT -5
Like any office politics
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Post by StormanReigns on Oct 4, 2015 19:54:15 GMT -5
Ideally they should all just be characters that do what the writers want.
But it is kinda what makes wrestling so awesome in a way. Wrestlers not following script makes it feel far more real than any other written show.
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Post by Saul Goodman on Oct 4, 2015 21:41:04 GMT -5
Every top star has used backstage politics. We all know that Hogan and HBK used it a lot, but even Hart, Austin, The Rock, Undertaker (in fact, I heard he used it as often as Hogan and HBK), Punk and even Cena. It's nothing new. They just want to make as much money as they can. And being the top star means that they are making the most money they can make. There is no retirement plan for a wrestler, so they have to save as much money as possible, because they know that they can get injured at anytime, wrestling also has an age limit, so they know they can't do it until they are 60. WWE does give legend contracts now, but according to The Honky Tonk Man,they are a joke and pays the wrestlers very little.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 1:33:10 GMT -5
Seems like nowadays, stories of guys "refusing to lose" to specific other guys is minimal compared to 15 years ago. Part of it is that everyone realizes how ridiculous it is to tell the guy signing their paychecks that they can't lose a fake pro wrestling match when everyone know it's a fake pro wrestling match. The other part is, with the way the wrestling landscape has changed over the years, it's not a very wise move for any of these guys to refuse to do what Vince McMahon wants them to do, because he can easily wave goodbye to that wrestler and wish them good luck with those huge Lucha Underground paydays that would be in their future.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Oct 5, 2015 2:33:36 GMT -5
Seems like nowadays, stories of guys "refusing to lose" to specific other guys is minimal compared to 15 years ago. Part of it is that everyone realizes how ridiculous it is to tell the guy signing their paychecks that they can't lose a fake pro wrestling match when everyone know it's a fake pro wrestling match. The other part is, with the way the wrestling landscape has changed over the years, it's not a very wise move for any of these guys to refuse to do what Vince McMahon wants them to do, because he can easily wave goodbye to that wrestler and wish them good luck with those huge Lucha Underground paydays that would be in their future. I think it still exist. There was these guy with long black hair, if I'm not mistaken it was Tyler Reks, apparently he did a finisher which was very similar to a fireman's carry, and Cena blew a gasket, backstage he yelled at him, the story was in the art of wrestling podcast, apparently Cena mellowed later, but I don't think it was a coincidence that Reks was just used as a jobber after that. Also I think that last year, Ziggler said on an interview that if he was in a dark alley, he would have no problem beating up Randy Orton and I think he also said John Cena, I don't think those guys would want to do business with him. I think guys that tell Vince to f*** off about doing the job are the elite, Cena could spit at Vince's grandsons and he wouldn't even fire him because his company would take a huge blow.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Oct 5, 2015 2:37:59 GMT -5
Every top star has used backstage politics. We all know that Hogan and HBK used it a lot, but even Hart, Austin, The Rock, Undertaker (in fact, I heard he used it as often as Hogan and HBK), Punk and even Cena. It's nothing new. They just want to make as much money as they can. And being the top star means that they are making the most money they can make. There is no retirement plan for a wrestler, so they have to save as much money as possible, because they know that they can get injured at anytime, wrestling also has an age limit, so they know they can't do it until they are 60. WWE does give legend contracts now, but according to The Honky Tonk Man,they are a joke and pays the wrestlers very little. Double post sorry, yeah HTM said that he asked Paul Orndorff about the Hall of Fame and a legends contract, allegedly Paul said that he got flown first class, he had a nice dinner, then they gave him a plaque that he left at the hotel. And with the legends contract they kinda get control of the name, notice the recent situation with Jim Neidhart, prowtestlingtees just released his shirts, but the wwe send them a cease and desist letter that they couldn't release those shirts because he was under contract with them, and the sad part is that the wwe won't ever release Neidhart tshirts. That legend deal actually cost him money.
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Post by wrestlingrecap on Oct 5, 2015 15:13:12 GMT -5
Which shoot is that, because that sounds fascinating. I've always felt bad for Sullivan as a booker, because it feels like he takes an unreasonable amount of stick for a guy who probably had his hands tied between idiotic corporate edicts and prima donna stars with creative control. I agree. He had a great mind and others in the business have said as much. He was in an unenviable position. wrestlingrecaps.com/interviews/kevin-sullivan-and-the-end-of-wcw/Thanks for passing along a link from my blog! It's a great interview and very informative.
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Post by Old Baby on Oct 5, 2015 18:35:05 GMT -5
Seems like nowadays, stories of guys "refusing to lose" to specific other guys is minimal compared to 15 years ago. Part of it is that everyone realizes how ridiculous it is to tell the guy signing their paychecks that they can't lose a fake pro wrestling match when everyone know it's a fake pro wrestling match. The other part is, with the way the wrestling landscape has changed over the years, it's not a very wise move for any of these guys to refuse to do what Vince McMahon wants them to do, because he can easily wave goodbye to that wrestler and wish them good luck with those huge Lucha Underground paydays that would be in their future. I think it's more the latter. Now the talent just doesn't have the leverage they used to have when Vince had competition. In the past, wrestlers' were like a business unto themselves. Their entire livelihood hinged on marketing themselves to promoters and wrestling fans. It made sense to say no sometimes when a promoter wanted them to do something that could affect their ability to be a draw and make money. Now, the WWE superstars are like hired actors working for Vince's film studio. Being on the big stage means following the script, and thinking for yourself is risky.
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Post by willywonka666 on Oct 6, 2015 7:03:38 GMT -5
I think back to Vince's "Ruthless Aggression" speech years ago when he had pretty much the entire roster in the ring on Raw and I truly believe that's his life's philosophy for the most part.
I have heard that he can be pretty furious when someone won't go along with one of his ideas, like when he wanted Bobby Heenan to wear women's underwear and be stripped down to it on tv, but sometimes he really respects when someone stands up to him-like Hogan, Piper, Ventura and guys like that-he might have been mad at first, but he accepted it and that's a big reason those guys never had to worry about a glass ceiling.
Of course he's fired and been involved in lawsuits and such with some of these men, but still it seems to eventually work out in the end.
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