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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 21:11:58 GMT -5
affects pro wrestling.
You can give the guy all the accolades, you can write him to be the the cool wise-ass joke cracker, God's gift to the opposite sex, to have all this shit happen to him in order to make him sympathetic. But fans do not buy it if they don't really feel it. The people who get the most over are the guys that fans watch grind their way up their card, and down the card, and back up again, and suffer from what the fans feel are real hardships, and overcome them.
Before, even up the mid 90s, this Roman Reigns push would've worked just fine. You make the guy a winner, he says cool stuff, he's got some cool moves, bam, you've got a top guy, as long as he's not shitting the bed. Not always a big time game-changer guy like The Rock, but you've got a bonafide main eventer and the fans accept it.
Nowdays, it just does not work. We saw it with Sheamus too. Just being a winner and written to be a cool guy who cracks jokes isn't enough anymore.
It's got to do with other things too, like the fact that they won't run with the people the fans coronate themselves which creates a hostile/cynical fanbase, and they've kept Cena as the top protaganist for so long despite all the boos, and that the writing/presentation just isn't as good as it was. But I think the fact that everyone is so aware that it's fake makes it really tough to manufacture a top star the way they're trying to do with Reigns.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 21:15:48 GMT -5
Like Austin said "I stand by the fact that no matter what they do with him he’s going to have to be a heel first, but they’re trying to keep him babyface, because I think Vince's thing is that he’s either going to work as a babyface, or he isn't going to work at all". In my eyes that's pretty ridiculous but it is what it is. Once Reigns wins the title the fans will be on him more than ever, remember the Cena stuff didn't start until after he won the title so just imagine how bad it'll be for Reigns when he can't really latch onto the crowd like Cena did before the boos happened.
They just need to turn him heel and he'll gain the respect to get over this because without that they're forcing him to fail.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 21:15:42 GMT -5
Reigns' delivery of that promo was largely fine, the writing just did him no favors. Why would you have half of the promo be exposition, and beyond that, why would you write a promo that long for Reigns when you're in ****ing Chicago?
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Post by cabbageboy on Oct 12, 2015 22:22:49 GMT -5
The entire storyline is about the death of kayfabe really. I mentioned this in another thread. The whole "Anyone but you, Roman" bit that Reigns referenced tonight was basically Bray Wyatt being cast as a smark that detests the Reigns push. What ought to distress WWE is that Reigns has been getting pretty good reactions most of the summer but then once he opened his mouth tonight about being WWE champion you heard the fans crap all over it.
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Post by Starshine on Oct 12, 2015 22:24:22 GMT -5
IMO the problem with Reigns is that he doesn't have a character. He could probably get away with it if hew had a more dynamic personality, but he doesn't have that either. He's just a guy who says bitch because WWE thinks that's edgy, and gets lost trying to find the entrance ramp every week.
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kidkamikaze10
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Oct 12, 2015 22:27:18 GMT -5
Other feds do fine with kayfabe even in this current environment.
WWE needs to have a clear idea of what they want to do and stick to it. This storyline highlights the inconsistency.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Oct 12, 2015 22:27:12 GMT -5
Kayfabe has nothing to do with it. The biggest thing Reigns needs is to hide his weaknesses and accentuate his strengths but they're doing the opposite of it. And they do it all the damn time down at NXT!
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Post by BorneAgain on Oct 12, 2015 22:30:24 GMT -5
IMO the problem with Reigns is that he doesn't have a character. He could probably get away from it if hew had a dynamic personality, but he doesn't have that either. He's just a guy who says bitch because WWE thinks that's edgy, and gets lost trying to find the entrance ramp every week. Same with a lot of people really. Its D- effort with most of the roster; constant bad jokes, informed abilities shilled by commentary, and meaningless buzzwords given to performers in place of actual personalities. Its like a wrestling show somehow simultaneously developed by both soulless marketing hacks and an underachieving high school sophomore who just threw s*** together for the class presentation he just remembered.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 22:30:47 GMT -5
Other feds do fine with kayfabe even in this current environment. WWE needs to have a clear idea of what they want to do and stick to it. This storyline highlights the inconsistency. Yes, other feds do it fine, because they understand how to adapt. WWE just tries the Big Daddy Cool push with any guy who Vince thinks is big and handsome enough.
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Post by Widow's Peak on Oct 12, 2015 22:31:34 GMT -5
They've really made a lot of progress with Reigns in the past several weeks where they've booked him as a badass who doesn't need to cut long promos to get his message across. If they continue that path for him, he'll be fine.
If they continue to try to shoehorn him into a John Cena role, he'll get more of what he got tonight. Some people just aren't lengthy promo guys. Reigns might evolve into that role, but he's clearly not there now. They need to stop forcing it.
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Oct 12, 2015 22:34:50 GMT -5
Why? Why would you have that guy, cut that promo, in that city? It's a mindnumbingky stupid thing to do.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 22:40:25 GMT -5
They've really made a lot of progress with Reigns in the past several weeks where they've booked him as a badass who doesn't need to cut long promos to get his message across. If they continue that path for him, he'll be fine. If they continue to try to shoehorn him into a John Cena role, he'll get more of what he got tonight. Some people just aren't lengthy promo guys. Reigns might evolve into that role, but he's clearly not there now. They need to stop forcing it. It's like we're in the friend zone with Reigns, and that's all we want to be, but Reigns keeps trying to get in our pants. Then we're like NO then he waits a little while, acts like like the nice guy we like being friends with, then tries again. Then we're like NO and so on and so forth.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 12, 2015 23:24:44 GMT -5
This stinks of someone putting "their own touches" on the storyline and basically sending Roman out to die a lethal death. He was fine but obviously in Chicago and a promo that long doesn't do him any favors. I thought we been through this already the guy of few words is the best approach as he already has the "cool demeanor."
WWE should stop trying to shoehorn their babyfaces in certain roles point blank and simple. Roman weakness is the mic but hopefully this doesn't start a new tirade of he isn't ready etc etc...
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 12, 2015 23:29:06 GMT -5
Kayfabe has nothing to do with it. The biggest thing Reigns needs is to hide his weaknesses and accentuate his strengths but they're doing the opposite of it. And they do it all the damn time down at NXT! Despite being in the same company and is the developmental of WWE, somehow NXT does it correctly or HHH and his crew would probably be a better assessment. WWE(RAW) throws you into the spotlight and forces you to adapt instead of slowly giving you a good amount of confidence. As much as Raw changes their bookings week to week it's amazing they don't adapt "on the fly." Think if NXT kept Enzo as a singles wrestler or Baron as a face when things certainly weren't working.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Oct 12, 2015 23:41:38 GMT -5
They've really made a lot of progress with Reigns in the past several weeks where they've booked him as a badass who doesn't need to cut long promos to get his message across. If they continue that path for him, he'll be fine. If they continue to try to shoehorn him into a John Cena role, he'll get more of what he got tonight. Some people just aren't lengthy promo guys. Reigns might evolve into that role, but he's clearly not there now. They need to stop forcing it. That's the thing. WWE never tried to make Austin and The Rock into Hogan and Savage, even WCW never tried to make Goldberg into Ric Flair, so why the hell are they trying to make Roman Reigns into Cena 2.0. It doesn't work.
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Post by Old Jack Burton on Oct 12, 2015 23:48:53 GMT -5
Roman once alluded in the Brock feud to him fighting for the honor of his family. That he had a legacy to live up to.
If they could incorporate that a lot more I think he'd do better.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Oct 13, 2015 0:15:22 GMT -5
The thing is, I want Roman to succeed. I want him to be a top guy. I dunno if I want him in the very top spot, maybe? But, they just keep trying to force it like after the 60th time, people will finally relent and let Vince have what he wants.
The biggest hunk of bullshit out of Vince's mouth was that he doesn't write things for him. It's all for him and it will be until the day he's out of the company. Vince McMahon is out of touch and in a position where he can continue to write his vanity project while the ratings crash and burn.
If I were Shane, I would resent the f*** out of Vince and be incredibly grateful for my success outside of Daddy's playpen.
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spagett
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Post by spagett on Oct 13, 2015 2:38:17 GMT -5
Why? Why would you have that guy, cut that promo, in that city? It's a mindnumbingky stupid thing to do. I can only think it was some sort of trial by fire thing for Reigns. A test in a major city to check his reactions from the crowd.
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Post by audiencewatching on Oct 13, 2015 2:41:01 GMT -5
The inmates are running in the asylum.
The crowd has got to smart thanks to the internet and can now dictate what they want.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Oct 13, 2015 2:45:31 GMT -5
They've really made a lot of progress with Reigns in the past several weeks where they've booked him as a badass who doesn't need to cut long promos to get his message across. If they continue that path for him, he'll be fine. If they continue to try to shoehorn him into a John Cena role, he'll get more of what he got tonight. Some people just aren't lengthy promo guys. Reigns might evolve into that role, but he's clearly not there now. They need to stop forcing it. It's like we're in the friend zone with Reigns, and that's all we want to be, but Reigns keeps trying to get in our pants. Then we're like NO then he waits a little while, acts like like the nice guy we like being friends with, then tries again. Then we're like NO and so on and so forth. This is the perfect analogy for it.
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