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Post by funakifan88 on Oct 22, 2015 9:04:43 GMT -5
So, I recently watched EVOLVE 49 as I am a big Johnny Gargano fan and was very excited to see Trevor Lee vs Drew Gulak but I couldn't help noticing that there aren't a whole lot of differences between EVOLVE and ROH. I find it interesting that HHH has such a boner for EVOLVE but doesn't seem to appreciate ROH so I'm wondering what the differences are. I know in terms of scope that ROH is bigger because they have more money and the involvement with Sinclair and maybe HHH just views them as competition but is that it?
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 22, 2015 9:23:55 GMT -5
ROH has a lot more money and connections to other companies. Also, Gabe Sapolsky (owner and booker of EVOLVE) is Heyman's protege and a good friend of D-Bry.
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mcmahonfan85
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Oct 22, 2015 10:31:20 GMT -5
in terms of difference when it comes to WWE, ROH has tv, traditional ppvs, and merchandising deals. that's why HHH has "a boner" for EVOLVE and not ROH
in terms of general difference, ROH is a lot better organized than EVOLVE. they have their shows announced and books months in advanced, regularly release merchandise, and always keep their site up to date. when AR Fox left EVOLVE earlier this year, he said one of his major frustrations what that how wrestlers found out if they were booked or not was by checking the EVOLVE website. the actual matches are usually booked about 7-10 days before the show takes place. it takes forever and day for them to release the shows on dvd, and they can't even be bothered to update their website (apparently Johnny Gargano is the DGUSA champion, The Young Bucks are the DGUSA tag champs, and AR Fox is the EVOLVE Champ)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2015 17:45:40 GMT -5
Two completely different companies. Run by different people. Different talent rosters. Evolve has a working agreement with WWE, ROH does not. ROH has its own television show, Evolve does not. ROH is owned by a television company. Evolve is independent, owned by wrestling people.
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Post by lildude8218 on Oct 23, 2015 17:54:19 GMT -5
even most of the black dudes in ROH are boring white guys
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Post by Woo on Oct 23, 2015 18:15:01 GMT -5
Honestly I never got what Evolve's main selling point in wrestling was.
ROH was purely wrestling based product. CHIKARA is a comic book come to life. Lucha Underground is a TV show about wrestling. Shimmer has the best women wrestlers in the world. CZW is a hardcore based promotion. Evolve just seemed a bit ROH-lite to me. Is it more Japanase style inspired? Or is it ROH based in a difefrent part of the USA?
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Post by kingoftheindies on Oct 23, 2015 18:36:37 GMT -5
Honestly I never got what Evolve's main selling point in wrestling was. ROH was purely wrestling based product. CHIKARA is a comic book come to life. Lucha Underground is a TV show about wrestling. Shimmer has the best women wrestlers in the world. CZW is a hardcore based promotion. Evolve just seemed a bit ROH-lite to me. Is it more Japanase style inspired? Or is it ROH based in a difefrent part of the USA? They have kind of went through a few different periods, originally it was supposed to be about legit competition, even keeping rankings based off of wins and losses. Then it was a just Dragon Gate USA's sister promotion, now DUSA is nothing and EVOLVE is now it's own thing. THe big issue has been that Gabe has never found a group of guys to click with the fans like he did in ROH. People either love or hate Gargano, but outside of him Gabe never had HIS guys. I mean have to remember when EVOLVE first crowned their champs one of the guys getting pushed the hardest was Jon Davis. |
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Oct 23, 2015 18:41:14 GMT -5
Honestly I never got what Evolve's main selling point in wrestling was. ROH was purely wrestling based product. CHIKARA is a comic book come to life. Lucha Underground is a TV show about wrestling. Shimmer has the best women wrestlers in the world. CZW is a hardcore based promotion. Evolve just seemed a bit ROH-lite to me. Is it more Japanase style inspired? Or is it ROH based in a difefrent part of the USA? EVOLVE was originally envisioned to be bare bones wrestling presented like MMA. eventually that plan died and it became the "Smackdown" to DGUSA, continuing the storylines between the American side of the roster while waiting for Dragon Gate wrestlers to be available, and then ultimately the main promotion due to the slow death of DGUSA. initially DGUSA/EVOLVE tried really hard to compete with Ring of Honor, running in ROH's major markets (NYC, Philly, Chicago), but due to a decline in business now only runs in Florida, New York, and where ever WrestleMania is running |
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Oct 23, 2015 19:30:12 GMT -5
Honestly I never got what Evolve's main selling point in wrestling was. ROH was purely wrestling based product. CHIKARA is a comic book come to life. Lucha Underground is a TV show about wrestling. Shimmer has the best women wrestlers in the world. CZW is a hardcore based promotion. Evolve just seemed a bit ROH-lite to me. Is it more Japanase style inspired? Or is it ROH based in a difefrent part of the USA? They have kind of went through a few different periods, originally it was supposed to be about legit competition, even keeping rankings based off of wins and losses. Then it was a just Dragon Gate USA's sister promotion, now DUSA is nothing and EVOLVE is now it's own thing. THe big issue has been that Gabe has never found a group of guys to click with the fans like he did in ROH. People either love or hate Gargano, but outside of him Gabe never had HIS guys. I mean have to remember when EVOLVE first crowned their champs one of the guys getting pushed the hardest was Jon Davis. the problem wasn't that he could find wrestlers that clicked with the fans, the problem that he was more interested in "creating" wrestlers than pushing those the fans are behind. guys who'd already made a name for themselves on the indies before working for DGUSA/EVOLVE (Jimmy Jacobs, Chuck Taylor, Sami Callihan, Jon Davis, etc) always played second fiddle to guys Gabe "discovered" (Jon Moxley, Johnny Gargano, AR Fox, etc). |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 23, 2015 20:28:30 GMT -5
even most of the black dudes in ROH are boring white guys *squeezes ACH plushee* |
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Post by kingoftheindies on Oct 24, 2015 2:08:05 GMT -5
They have kind of went through a few different periods, originally it was supposed to be about legit competition, even keeping rankings based off of wins and losses. Then it was a just Dragon Gate USA's sister promotion, now DUSA is nothing and EVOLVE is now it's own thing. THe big issue has been that Gabe has never found a group of guys to click with the fans like he did in ROH. People either love or hate Gargano, but outside of him Gabe never had HIS guys. I mean have to remember when EVOLVE first crowned their champs one of the guys getting pushed the hardest was Jon Davis. the problem wasn't that he could find wrestlers that clicked with the fans, the problem that he was more interested in "creating" wrestlers than pushing those the fans are behind. guys who'd already made a name for themselves on the indies before working for DGUSA/EVOLVE (Jimmy Jacobs, Chuck Taylor, Sami Callihan, Jon Davis, etc) always played second fiddle to guys Gabe "discovered" (Jon Moxley, Johnny Gargano, AR Fox, etc). Fox and and Mox were already big names in CZW FWIW |
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Post by Starshine on Oct 24, 2015 2:19:25 GMT -5
EVOLVE does have more of an identiy today than they have ever had. They're mostly tending to focus on "grapplef***" guys, i.e. heavy emphasis on mat based grappling and submission holds. If you really like the wrestling styles of guys like Drew Gulak, Timothy Thatcher, Biff Busick, et al then this is a promotion you should check out (mainly the past year or so).
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Post by funakifan88 on Oct 24, 2015 2:54:52 GMT -5
I know what the actual differences are. I guess what I'm saying is, in the eyes of HHH what are the differences? And, I know that's a hard question for anyone not named HHH to answer. I guess I just don't see why he likes it so much, as I would be inclined to agree with an earlier statement that EVOLVE is sort of ROH lite, unless it really comes down to the idea that HHH views ROH as competition. I mean, you can't argue that ROH has better production values, more name brand talent, and (in my opinion) better stories so it just seems odd to me that HHH (or anyone for that matter) would enjoy EVOLVE more.
There is that comment that HHH made on that conference call when talking about EVOLVE where he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "Bigger smaller companies make it harder for others to succeed" to take into account as well....
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Post by Steveweiser on Oct 24, 2015 6:08:43 GMT -5
EVOLVE is now known as the home of mat-based technicians like Timothy Thatcher, Drew Gulak, Tracy Williams, and when he's available, Zack Sabre Jr. There's also pure strikers like Chris Hero, martial arts practitioners like Mike Bailey, and more traditional sports entertainment guys like Johnny Gargano and Ethan Page. Drew Galloway is also there from time to time. It's probably the best mix of talent that EVOLVE has had to date, and the clearest direction it's had.
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Post by Reflecto on Oct 24, 2015 7:40:08 GMT -5
I know what the actual differences are. I guess what I'm saying is, in the eyes of HHH what are the differences? And, I know that's a hard question for anyone not named HHH to answer. I guess I just don't see why he likes it so much, as I would be inclined to agree with an earlier statement that EVOLVE is sort of ROH lite, unless it really comes down to the idea that HHH views ROH as competition. I mean, you can't argue that ROH has better production values, more name brand talent, and (in my opinion) better stories so it just seems odd to me that HHH (or anyone for that matter) would enjoy EVOLVE more. There is that comment that HHH made on that conference call when talking about EVOLVE where he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "Bigger smaller companies make it harder for others to succeed" to take into account as well.... The biggest difference in place seems to be Gabe Sapolsky running EVOLVE, to be honest. Gabe always has had the reputation of being one of the best talent scouts on the independent scene, and since Gabe left ROH the talent they've gotten has noticably declined a bit- not to say the current ROH talent since Gabe left are bad by any means, but more like the talent has gone to "very good talent" or returning former ROH talents, when ROH used to be getting blue chip, can't miss prospect after blue chip, can't miss prospect during Gabe's time in ROH. Considering that HHH's real goal is to aggregate the best possible talent, working with one of the best possible talent SCOUTS is the real difference maker. |
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Post by Woo on Oct 24, 2015 7:42:22 GMT -5
EVOLVE does have more of an identiy today than they have ever had. They're mostly tending to focus on "grapplef***" guys, i.e. heavy emphasis on mat based grappling and submission holds. If you really like the wrestling styles of guys like Drew Gulak, Timothy Thatcher, Biff Busick, et al then this is a promotion you should check out (mainly the past year or so). So if Evolve is more mat based does ROH try to be more of an all-round style promotion then? Whereas LU and Shimmer won me over by trying something completely different than what any other company was doing (CHIKARA & CZW too do this though I don't watch either) I've always been confused as to what made ROH, PWG & Evolve different and want a reason to watch and care about them. |
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Oct 24, 2015 10:58:37 GMT -5
the problem wasn't that he could find wrestlers that clicked with the fans, the problem that he was more interested in "creating" wrestlers than pushing those the fans are behind. guys who'd already made a name for themselves on the indies before working for DGUSA/EVOLVE (Jimmy Jacobs, Chuck Taylor, Sami Callihan, Jon Davis, etc) always played second fiddle to guys Gabe "discovered" (Jon Moxley, Johnny Gargano, AR Fox, etc). Fox and and Mox were already big names in CZW FWIW but you have to look at CZW in the overall context of indy wrestling, which at the time saw them running monthly shows almost always in the same place. ergo, they were small time, until Gabe Sapolsky saw something in a few of their wrestlers and plucked them from obscurity to bring them to the big time of DGUSA/EVOLVE |
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Oct 24, 2015 17:19:25 GMT -5
How's the stream?
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Post by funakifan88 on Oct 24, 2015 20:25:54 GMT -5
Can't complain.
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Oct 24, 2015 21:09:08 GMT -5
even most of the black dudes in ROH are boring white guys  |
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