Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
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Post by Sephiroth on Nov 12, 2015 23:34:48 GMT -5
Please pardon me if I seem a bit preachy here. But with a thread going on in the WWE forum, I can't help but point out that we here on FAN, along with the rest of the IWC, regularly mock Abyss for having turned down an offer to go to WWE and sticking with TNA-but we seem to get give certain others who have stuck with TNA a pass. Well...except for Kurt Angle. But seriously, why don't we trash on Gail Kim for sticking with TNA as long as she has? Heck, Triple H is an obvious mark for Bobby Roode, you know NXT would have him in a heartbeat. How about Awesome Kong going back to TNA after swearing she'd never work with them again? I'm not trying to guilt trip the IWC here or anything, but it kind of strikes me that there is this assumption that because Abyss basically plays a moron on TV that he must really be one, never mind that he may actually have had some compelling reasons for saying no to WWE when he did. The fact that Dixie Carter has turned out to be a total scumbag probably adds to it.
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on Nov 12, 2015 23:47:02 GMT -5
Well, yeah, they're all dummies for sticking it out with them. But in Gail and Kong's case, they also had their chances with WWE. In Kong's case, she ended up in a bad situation with her pregnancy (which still has an air of doubt around it, but that's not the issue), and didn't really have anywhere else to go other than TNA. I'm not sure what Gail's deal is, her husband is famous, so she must just like wrestling and being in the spotlight, far as I can tell. And to the best of my knowledge, no one from WWE has ever offered Bobby a deal, it's all internet speculation really.
Abyss had a chance to go to the main event scene and face one of the biggest draws in wrestling history, and he decided not to. Whether out of cold feet or misplaced loyalty, it seems like a jaw-droppingly bad decision to make at the time, even with TNA being hot at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20, and seeing how his character was completely chipped away and made ridiculous over the years, and considering all of his reckless injuries, it's easy to see why people dogpile on him.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 12, 2015 23:54:26 GMT -5
I have 2 main reasons to mock Abyss.
1. He killed his own monster aura. His former manager, James Mitchell, said that Abyss took bumps on thumbtacks at every f***ing match, even house shows. Mitchell said that he was like "Willie E Coyote", because his weapons always turned against him. According to Mitchell falling in thumbtacks was Abyss's idea.
2. He is mediocrity personified. Abyss has actually regressed each passing year instead of going forward. Hogan and Bischoff made him the focus of the show, and he still kept playing an stupid character and a coward. He was stoppable which a monster should never be.
He was given 2 years to rehab his body and get in shape when he was given the Joseph Park character. Instead of taking all that time to heal and get in shape, the motherf***er actually got fatter.
Abyss is just a parody at this point. He sacrificed everything for tna and it doesn't mean anything. The poor man lost a lot of blood, risked getting hepatitis b (which Desmond Wolfe got in a match he had with Abyss), lost a lot of brain cells by getting hundreds of chairshots to the head, and lost teeth when RVD kicked him in the mouth.
Abyss is a poor simpleton. TNA took advantage of it. Abyss is Zoidberg, he'll always be around, no matter if TNA is left without a tv deal.
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 13, 2015 0:38:54 GMT -5
I have 2 main reasons to mock Abyss. 1. He killed his own monster aura. His former manager, James Mitchell, said that Abyss took bumps on thumbtacks at every f***ing match, even house shows. Mitchell said that he was like "Willie E Coyote", because his weapons always turned against him. According to Mitchell falling in thumbtacks was Abyss's idea. 2. He is mediocrity personified. Abyss has actually regressed each passing year instead of going forward. Hogan and Bischoff made him the focus of the show, and he still kept playing an stupid character and a coward. He was stoppable which a monster should never be. He was given 2 years to rehab his body and get in shape when he was given the Joseph Park character. Instead of taking all that time to heal and get in shape, the motherf***er actually got fatter. Abyss is just a parody at this point. He sacrificed everything for tna and it doesn't mean anything. The poor man lost a lot of blood, risked getting hepatitis b (which Desmond Wolfe got in a match he had with Abyss), lost a lot of brain cells by getting hundreds of chairshots to the head, and lost teeth when RVD kicked him in the mouth. Abyss is a poor simpleton. TNA took advantage of it. Abyss is Zoidberg, he'll always be around, no matter if TNA is left without a tv deal. You know what with you pointing that out like that i'm pretty sure it's a good idea he didn't go to WWE. He comes across as a pushover or at least not smart enough in the business to protect his body. WWE wouldn't of let him do those crazy bumps but best believe he would of been volunteering for one of the highlight reel spots WWE has every year. If nothing else he could of set himself up for some decent money. Everybody says money isn't everything which is true but in wrestling and sports in general you need to get what you can while it's available to u. Christian went back to WWE because he wanted money to retire on and be able to live a comfortable life. I commend his loyalty and there's something to be said about wanting to be "part of a cause" which was the uprising of TNA but in hindsight I would think he probably think twice about that. However, if he's comfortable so be it but at this rate he's going to see people like James Storm, Samoe Joe, and maybe even Booby Roode walk in WWE doors with open arms while he's doing hardcore spots at Indies.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Nov 13, 2015 0:48:18 GMT -5
Gail Kim burned her bridge the way she left last time... and was really botchy during her last run.
Pretty sure Roode said they never offered him a deal when his contract was up.
Which is alos the other point we don't know that anyone else turned down a deal... and the most likely answer is "No" because for a while WWE refused to hire anyone that was in TNA becuase TNA sued them.
After WWE informed them one of TNA's former employees was trying to give them information on TNA contracts.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 13, 2015 0:54:07 GMT -5
I have 2 main reasons to mock Abyss. 1. He killed his own monster aura. His former manager, James Mitchell, said that Abyss took bumps on thumbtacks at every f***ing match, even house shows. Mitchell said that he was like "Willie E Coyote", because his weapons always turned against him. According to Mitchell falling in thumbtacks was Abyss's idea. 2. He is mediocrity personified. Abyss has actually regressed each passing year instead of going forward. Hogan and Bischoff made him the focus of the show, and he still kept playing an stupid character and a coward. He was stoppable which a monster should never be. He was given 2 years to rehab his body and get in shape when he was given the Joseph Park character. Instead of taking all that time to heal and get in shape, the motherf***er actually got fatter. Abyss is just a parody at this point. He sacrificed everything for tna and it doesn't mean anything. The poor man lost a lot of blood, risked getting hepatitis b (which Desmond Wolfe got in a match he had with Abyss), lost a lot of brain cells by getting hundreds of chairshots to the head, and lost teeth when RVD kicked him in the mouth. Abyss is a poor simpleton. TNA took advantage of it. Abyss is Zoidberg, he'll always be around, no matter if TNA is left without a tv deal. You know what with you pointing that out like that i'm pretty sure it's a good idea he didn't go to WWE. He comes across as a pushover or at least not smart enough in the business to protect his body. WWE wouldn't of let him do those crazy bumps but best believe he would of been volunteering for one of the highlight reel spots WWE has every year. If nothing else he could of set himself up for some decent money. Everybody says money isn't everything which is true but in wrestling and sports in general you need to get what you can while it's available to u. Christian went back to WWE because he wanted money to retire on and be able to live a comfortable life. I commend his loyalty and there's something to be said about wanting to be "part of a cause" which was the uprising of TNA but in hindsight I would think he probably think twice about that. However, if he's comfortable so be it but at this rate he's going to see people like James Storm, Samoe Joe, and maybe even Booby Roode walk in WWE doors with open arms while he's doing hardcore spots at Indies. Oh yeah Abyss is gonna bleed at indy shows for the rest of his career. I was gonna compare him to Tommy Dreamer, but at least Tommy worked in the wwe for years. I was gonna say that he would become as pathetic as Balls Mahoney, but Balls was in the wwe for a couple of years. I'm sorry but Abyss is the saddest wrestler of all time. And it's not even his fault, if he was a drug addict or an evil person then he would've deserved it, but he appears to be a good guy, just stupid.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Nov 13, 2015 3:59:52 GMT -5
Because Abyss really is a modern day wash-up, but unlike Kurt who actually had glory days on the big stage, Abyss's best period was in TNA, which was always "poised" to be an alternative, but never actually was. And now that period is gone and you can see it very clear in the dude's work and how he's received. They've run him through so many terrible gimmicks and turned him into a joke one too many times, and it feels like he's kind of past the point now of being able to break out and do anything. He's slowed down, lost all his muscle, and he's become a joke. Dude threw himself onto thumbtacks on a weekly basis to be a midcarder whose peak wasn't all that impressive, and now there's nothing left for him to do anything with. He's a guy whose name is synonymous with TNA, but he's probably the only one who has no hope anywhere else.
Gail explicitly gave WWE the finger on her way out by eliminating herself from a Battle Royal. With a rich husband she has a safety net and can just do whatever she wants; TNA is just particularly eager to give her the world and be their top woman. With the light schedule, she may well figure it's better to be on top and seen by a couple hundred thousand people a week than to be losing to the Bellas in front of millions. f*** it, she can afford to.
With Bobby Roode, the thing is that he's a great talent, and when TNA finally goes under, he is likely to be that great talent somewhere that'll appreciate him again. It may be NXT, it may the indies, but his good days aren't all five years behind him like Abyss's are, and he could well reach AJ Styles levels of reinvigoration and success.
It's not even about "worked for WWE', it's about the idea that TNA is one day going to be not around anymore. And of the people who are TNA, Abyss has nowhere to go, he'll have no abiding legacy, no potential, no real hope. That's what's so incredibly sad about him.
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Post by Halloween on Nov 13, 2015 4:52:13 GMT -5
As others have said. Kong and Gail both had a shot in the WWE and failed therefore they can't really be mocked. Roode has never been offered a deal either.
Abyss was offered a WrestleMania match with The Undertaker and turned it down to stick with TNA. 10 years later TNA has 20 events a year and struggles to pay their people. WWE is still huge, does 250-300 events a year, Undertaker is still an icon and wrestling at WrestleMania still means something to people.
Also, if Abyss had a run in WWE even if for a couple of years he'd probably be able to charge a lot more on the indies and TNA would probably push him a lot more.
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Post by jimmyjames on Nov 13, 2015 4:54:49 GMT -5
I have 2 main reasons to mock Abyss. 1. He killed his own monster aura. His former manager, James Mitchell, said that Abyss took bumps on thumbtacks at every f***ing match, even house shows. Mitchell said that he was like "Willie E Coyote", because his weapons always turned against him. According to Mitchell falling in thumbtacks was Abyss's idea. 2. He is mediocrity personified. Abyss has actually regressed each passing year instead of going forward. Hogan and Bischoff made him the focus of the show, and he still kept playing an stupid character and a coward. He was stoppable which a monster should never be. He was given 2 years to rehab his body and get in shape when he was given the Joseph Park character. Instead of taking all that time to heal and get in shape, the motherf***er actually got fatter. Abyss is just a parody at this point. He sacrificed everything for tna and it doesn't mean anything. The poor man lost a lot of blood, risked getting hepatitis b (which Desmond Wolfe got in a match he had with Abyss), lost a lot of brain cells by getting hundreds of chairshots to the head, and lost teeth when RVD kicked him in the mouth. Abyss is a poor simpleton. TNA took advantage of it. Abyss is Zoidberg, he'll always be around, no matter if TNA is left without a tv deal. I agree the Abyss character should have been Old Yeller'd years ago, but as Joseph Parks, he was great, in ring and out, even on the mic. It's a shame they didn't do more with him. I think that it makes his run as Abyss worst, because it showed what he could have done and been. I agree the Abyss character should have been Old Yeller'd years ago, but as Joseph Parks, he was great, in ring and out, even on the mic. It's a shame they didn't do more with him. I think that it makes his run as Abyss worst, because it showed what he could have done and been.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 14:49:55 GMT -5
I think Samoa Joe was offered the Umaga gimmick, but he turned it down to stay in TNA, or at least that was a big rumor.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 15:37:30 GMT -5
You know what with you pointing that out like that i'm pretty sure it's a good idea he didn't go to WWE. He comes across as a pushover or at least not smart enough in the business to protect his body. WWE wouldn't of let him do those crazy bumps but best believe he would of been volunteering for one of the highlight reel spots WWE has every year. If nothing else he could of set himself up for some decent money. Everybody says money isn't everything which is true but in wrestling and sports in general you need to get what you can while it's available to u. Christian went back to WWE because he wanted money to retire on and be able to live a comfortable life. I commend his loyalty and there's something to be said about wanting to be "part of a cause" which was the uprising of TNA but in hindsight I would think he probably think twice about that. However, if he's comfortable so be it but at this rate he's going to see people like James Storm, Samoe Joe, and maybe even Booby Roode walk in WWE doors with open arms while he's doing hardcore spots at Indies. Oh yeah Abyss is gonna bleed at indy shows for the rest of his career. I was gonna compare him to Tommy Dreamer, but at least Tommy worked in the wwe for years. I was gonna say that he would become as pathetic as Balls Mahoney, but Balls was in the wwe for a couple of years. I'm sorry but Abyss is the saddest wrestler of all time. And it's not even his fault, if he was a drug addict or an evil person then he would've deserved it, but he appears to be a good guy, just stupid. You are most certainly being hyperbolic. If I had to switch lives with either Abyss or Balls Mahoney who would ever wanna be Balls Mahoney? Just because he spent a few months in WWE you put him on a pedestal higher than Abyss? Have you seen the guy lately? Really, it's his career. He had a chance to work at Wrestlemania with the Undertaker but how many big galoots had a chance to work with Undertaker and where are they now? I get that for legacy reasons it would have been a good move, he doesn't have the most enviable career but there are definitely tons worse off. There are no guarantees taking that WWE offer, and he's far from the only guy who stuck with TNA at times where it doesn't seem wise to do so but it's definitely easy for us to say from here. The fact that Abyss turned a Wrestlemania match with Undertaker down for TNA is definitely a good punchline, it's definitely funny, but there's really no telling whether he'd be better off.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Nov 13, 2015 15:37:31 GMT -5
Honestly I still doubt he would have actually gotten an Undertaker match at Mania. People promise so much shit and its easy to sign him and not do what they promised
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 13, 2015 16:06:18 GMT -5
Oh yeah Abyss is gonna bleed at indy shows for the rest of his career. I was gonna compare him to Tommy Dreamer, but at least Tommy worked in the wwe for years. I was gonna say that he would become as pathetic as Balls Mahoney, but Balls was in the wwe for a couple of years. I'm sorry but Abyss is the saddest wrestler of all time. And it's not even his fault, if he was a drug addict or an evil person then he would've deserved it, but he appears to be a good guy, just stupid. You are most certainly being hyperbolic. If I had to switch lives with either Abyss or Balls Mahoney who would ever wanna be Balls Mahoney? Just because he spent a few months in WWE you put him on a pedestal higher than Abyss? Have you seen the guy lately? Really, it's his career. He had a chance to work at Wrestlemania with the Undertaker but how many big galoots had a chance to work with Undertaker and where are they now? I get that for legacy reasons it would have been a good move, he doesn't have the most enviable career but there are definitely tons worse off. There are no guarantees taking that WWE offer, and he's far from the only guy who stuck with TNA at times where it doesn't seem wise to do so but it's definitely easy for us to say from here. The fact that Abyss turned a Wrestlemania match with Undertaker down for TNA is definitely a good punchline, it's definitely funny, but there's really no telling whether he'd be better off. Mahoney spent close to 2 years in the wwe, I think he makes good money with royalty checks. You're right I should explain more what I was trying to say. I hope I'm mistaken but I think Abyss could end worse than Balls. That he lost a tremendous opportunity because of his loyalty. Abyss didn't deserve where his career is currently and where it's going to end.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Nov 13, 2015 16:23:33 GMT -5
I think Samoa Joe was offered the Umaga gimmick, but he turned it down to stay in TNA, or at least that was a big rumor. TNA kinda made him into Umaga when he was wearing the pajama pants and had a penis on his face.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 13, 2015 16:27:01 GMT -5
I think Samoa Joe was offered the Umaga gimmick, but he turned it down to stay in TNA, or at least that was a big rumor. I thought that the rumor was that he was offered a contract in 2011 or 2012 but he turned it down, and that's why they developed the Rusev character.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 16:43:30 GMT -5
You are most certainly being hyperbolic. If I had to switch lives with either Abyss or Balls Mahoney who would ever wanna be Balls Mahoney? Just because he spent a few months in WWE you put him on a pedestal higher than Abyss? Have you seen the guy lately? Really, it's his career. He had a chance to work at Wrestlemania with the Undertaker but how many big galoots had a chance to work with Undertaker and where are they now? I get that for legacy reasons it would have been a good move, he doesn't have the most enviable career but there are definitely tons worse off. There are no guarantees taking that WWE offer, and he's far from the only guy who stuck with TNA at times where it doesn't seem wise to do so but it's definitely easy for us to say from here. The fact that Abyss turned a Wrestlemania match with Undertaker down for TNA is definitely a good punchline, it's definitely funny, but there's really no telling whether he'd be better off. Mahoney spent close to 2 years in the wwe, I think he makes good money with royalty checks. You're right I should explain more what I was trying to say. I hope I'm mistaken but I think Abyss could end worse than Balls. That he lost a tremendous opportunity because of his loyalty. Abyss didn't deserve where his career is currently and where it's going to end. If we're just talking lifestyle it would take a fairly particular darkness to bring Abyss down to Balls' level. Whatever royalties Balls is making (and I personally doubt he's making much at this point, granted I don't have much to go off of) have nothing to do with what he did in WWE, you aren't going to see his feuds with Matt Striker or Mike Knox on any highlight reels anytime soon. I just don't think it's fair to knock Abyss based on a bunch of theoretical scenarios of what could have been and what his future holds. Not to say that you're wrong because who knows what could happen but if you base your opinion on the man on theoreticals you can pretty much skew the narrative however you want to. You could also theorize that WWE purchases TNA's library in the future and we start seeing TNA characters pop up more and more in NXT, which could give him a boost, or that he just finds a new, healthier life after wrestling. With everything as it stands now I think Abyss has had a fine wrestling career.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Nov 13, 2015 17:56:12 GMT -5
Mahoney spent close to 2 years in the wwe, I think he makes good money with royalty checks. You're right I should explain more what I was trying to say. I hope I'm mistaken but I think Abyss could end worse than Balls. That he lost a tremendous opportunity because of his loyalty. Abyss didn't deserve where his career is currently and where it's going to end. If we're just talking lifestyle it would take a fairly particular darkness to bring Abyss down to Balls' level. Whatever royalties Balls is making (and I personally doubt he's making much at this point, granted I don't have much to go off of) have nothing to do with what he did in WWE, you aren't going to see his feuds with Matt Striker or Mike Knox on any highlight reels anytime soon. I just don't think it's fair to knock Abyss based on a bunch of theoretical scenarios of what could have been and what his future holds. Not to say that you're wrong because who knows what could happen but if you base your opinion on the man on theoreticals you can pretty much skew the narrative however you want to. You could also theorize that WWE purchases TNA's library in the future and we start seeing TNA characters pop up more and more in NXT, which could give him a boost, or that he just finds a new, healthier life after wrestling. With everything as it stands now I think Abyss has had a fine wrestling career. I wasn't talking about lifestyles, Mahoney brought that on himself. Abyss seems a like a decent human being. My issue is that he rejected a major opportunity for nothing and destroyed his body. He's constantly risking serious injury when he should've become a millionaire. I admit it, Abyss was a great worker in 2005-2006, but his decisions about working only hardcore matches ruined his body.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Nov 13, 2015 18:59:53 GMT -5
People rag on Abyss because not only did he pass up on an opportunity that comes once in a million, he's regressed and became one of the worst in wrestling all together. His style and these pointless garbage matches have ruined his body as well as his drawing power and mystique. In 05-06 he was the best big man on the planet and a major attraction. Now with all these meaningless Hardcore, Monsters Ball and jumping on tacks show after show he's nothing more than a punchline and wasted potential
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 20:22:12 GMT -5
Because Abyss is some dumb old bullshit.
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Post by JTG Fan on Nov 13, 2015 20:25:32 GMT -5
Because Abyss is some dumb old bullshit. Yes and he's also trash.
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