Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Nov 26, 2015 4:48:38 GMT -5
I don't think making Sheamus a 58 time WWE Champ will fix anything. You had great characters who were really over in 1999. You simply do not today. Daniel Bryan was a cool character, and he is gone. What ever John Cena is as a character (neo Superman thing) is a great character, he is gone. CM Punk a great character, he is gone. They are so desperate for characters, that they use old ones on their big PPV's. Daniel Bryan's interesting, because they kinda did Attitude era booking on him, with him winning the belt, then getting it taken away a couple of times. He was a case of them holding back, holding back, waiting for Wrestlemania for the "perfect" moment, which basically ended up with a mess for 6 months. The whole Wrestlemania obsession has hurt Reigns too. It's part of the overall problem of predictability really, we know there won't be a big babyface win till Wresltemania so everyone's spinning their wheels till then. In the Attitude era, why wouldn't Reigns have an actual chance of winning at TLC? So there are actual stakes which would make things at least a little more interesting. The Rock won his first belt at Survivor Series, Mankind and HHH had their first ones on Raws, they got to have their moments and not be immediately undercut to build preperation for the "real" time they should have won. They won, had a story, lost, came back and so on, no "you win, lolz no".
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The Robisher
Trap-Jaw
Deaf by nature. Proud by choice.
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Post by The Robisher on Nov 26, 2015 5:13:26 GMT -5
Another thing to consider is that the Attitude Era's and Ruthless Aggression Era's world champions had a good bit of history and pedigree to their careers prior to joining the WWE. Coming from WCW, ECW, New Japan, and Mexico, you knew who they were and saw many of their matches and big moments in the WWE and WWE's competition. By the time they arrived, the WWE had ready-made talent and capitalized on that with fanfare. So by the time those men like The Rock Austin, Foley, HHH, HBK, Flair, Undertaker, Benoit, The Hardyz, Edge-n-Christian, The Dudley's, Big Show, etc gained their titles (and some for the second run of their careers) it brought a high level of prestige to the Heavyweight Championship, Intercontinental Title. and Tag Team Titles. The caliber and history of those performers hotshotted that belt automatically.
And more than anything, VINCE MCMACHON LISTENED TO THE AUDIENCE. His ego reveled in it. But that same ego won't let him admit that the passion or lack of passion of that same audience is always right.
Today, the WWE has one of the most talented rosters they've had in years. But he doesn't let them come half-way to the glass ceiling, let alone breaking it.
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Nov 26, 2015 16:41:33 GMT -5
I don't think making Sheamus a 58 time WWE Champ will fix anything. I gave some more specific ideas of what I'd like to see personally. I'd like Sheamus's reign to be over as soon as possible, just saying I'd love to see Ambrose get the belt, and maybe even Ziggler by surprise for a couple months, etc. Since right now we don't have a Daniel Bryan kind of guy to carry the show, and I'd find Sheamus then Reigns for the next year to be pretty dull. Not saying to switch the belt every month or something, just maybe say four champs over the next year or so. Which maybe isn't extreme hot-shotting, but it'd be a lot less long and belabored than the way they're doing it lately. Not to say I don't think long reigns can work, I do think they should try more long reigns in the future too.
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Post by gnr123 on Nov 26, 2015 20:15:33 GMT -5
Hot-shooting the belt won't help anything. Ideally, the best way to get interest back into the company should be to put out interesting storylines and push people are connect with the audience. Attitude Era style booking isn't going to fix the problems their having right now with incompetent writers and shows that don't matter. Hell, when's the lat time a title changed on RAW? RAW isn't "can't miss," anymore because nothing important happens. Sure, there may a return here or there, Brock might show up, but other than that the current crop of wrestlers just aren't bringing in interest. And that's all on Vince and the writers who have relied WAY too much on past stars and only push who they like without giving the fans a chance to get behind and connect to them. That's all.
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Post by moondoggie on Nov 27, 2015 20:59:38 GMT -5
Attitude Era booking is the current booking with less cussing, partial nudity, stunts, and excessive violence. The show is formatted the same way. Characters less bawdy but no real change. Only real difference is a majority of the matches last longer than 3 minutes. Completely disagree. Perhaps the main event is booked the same way, with heel authority figures and the like but the midcard is WAY worse today. Look at the reactions that guys like Val Venis, D'Lo Brown, Ken Shamrock, and those guys got compared to any of the mid card guys today. Attitude era booking would be nice because it would give the mid card guys something to do rather than just trade wins and tread water. I disagree with the constant trading of titles but give us stories, give us reasons that guys are feuding. I'm sick of having two guys wrestle for no reason or having a feud for no reason. Most feuds now are only explained if they're main event feuds and even those are just usually, because the heel doesn't like the babyface and the babyface is upset because the heel attacked him. Heels never win clean so there aren't any strong heels to compete with the top babyfaces and it's killing the business. In short, give the mid card something to do and write better stories for all levels. Give some back story on the characters instead of just backstory on the real person. It worked for Mick Foley but now you have 90% of the roster whose backstory is just that they were big fans as little kids and now they're living out a dream. If one guy has that backstory it's fine, but we need some variety. I hate to say it but a little bit of kayfabe would be nice once in a while. Hell even the low card guys back then got reactions. The Mean Street Posse would get cheers or boos also. Now if the f**king Mean Street Posse can get reactions then there is no reason low card or even mid carders can't get the same reactions.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 27, 2015 21:44:30 GMT -5
There IS something from the Attitude Era that they need to bring back. It aint' hot shotting or overdone bloody messes, it's that the whole damn card mattered. A top guy could go after the IC belt, and a midcarder could go after the top belt, and either would make sense because both guys were treated as worthy. Now? No one is, outside of a rare few.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Nov 27, 2015 23:45:56 GMT -5
Matches don't matter anymore. The results don't matter, Championships are meaningless, title contention is done on a whim. You can job for 6 months straight, win a match and they pretend youre the next great threat to the champion.
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Post by darkjourney on Nov 27, 2015 23:50:38 GMT -5
USuallly territories would hot shot when business was down. You would figure its a "must do" now. But no...Everyone seems to be satisfied with formulaic 1985 booking going on for whatever reason
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Tony Schiavontay
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Nov 28, 2015 14:53:38 GMT -5
I don't think making Sheamus a 58 time WWE Champ will fix anything. Goddammit, 59 will be the lucky number, pal.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Nov 28, 2015 15:10:36 GMT -5
If done well a few world title changes quickly between different opponents mostly on free TV would bring a nice sense of an anarchy that could last for a year plus for future title shots
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schma
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Post by schma on Nov 28, 2015 15:54:12 GMT -5
If they're going to insist on having the champ in 2-3 segments every Raw they should at least have occasional title matches on free tv. Not against their ppv opponents but other guys in their realm (buildup of said guys may be required). Then if as others have mentioned the belts change once or twice on a Raw, suddenly the stuff in between PPVs matters a lot more.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 16:00:16 GMT -5
The biggest difference between then and now is that they used to not be afraid to give, say, a TAKA or an Essa Rios ten minutes.
Good luck with that now. Main Event! Main Event! Reinforce! Buy our products! Main Event!
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Post by TheMediocreWarrior on Nov 28, 2015 19:33:15 GMT -5
What about a middle ground between hot shotting the title and every single reign being a long one?
Having too many title changes devalues the belt, I agree with that. At the same time though, making every title reign last at least X number of months makes things too predictable. Like right now, I probably won't bother watching TLC because I know a world title reign likely won't end that soon.
I do think they need to throw in the occasional short reign to make things less predictable. Doing it to the midcard belts would probably cause less damage. Like having someone else win the US Title in the next couple of weeks. It would shake things up and make the title scene more interesting, because the excitement of Del Rio's return has kind of fizzled out fast.
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Post by benstudd on Nov 29, 2015 21:18:59 GMT -5
Between April and June 2000, Jeff Jarrett won 4 WCW world titles. That's what hotshotting brings. That was extreme. I have to say this though, if between Mania and September, Seth Rollins would have dropped the strap to Ambrose who would have lost it to Owens and then to Cesaro with Rollins getting it back, it would have made the whole thing more lively and unpreditable. Yet keep using Rollins as the guy.
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Post by benstudd on Nov 29, 2015 21:28:36 GMT -5
I don't agree with that, but for the record, this topic wasn't intended as a "go back to the Attitude Era" topic. More specifically bringing up the idea of going back to the faster paced booking style of the time, and also throwing in the idea of faster WWE title changes for a bit. I don't like how the Attitude Era often had very short matches and so often ended with screwy run-ins, but they wouldn't have to do it that way. Some have mentioned before how everybody had a character, and there were more engaging feuds going on, more of a midcard, really there were a lot of differences between the booking then and now I'd say. And some aspects were done better then. Some weren't. Ideally we could reincorporate some of those good things, such as being fasted paced. And with the endless three hour RAW, we could still have decently long matches too. Just move things along more week to week. Honestly, I'd say the run ins and short matches helped at the time. I've argued this before, it was another way of putting off the "real" matches till you had to pay for them. In the 80s, you had jobber matches, so if you wanted to see the real fights between the big stars, you had to go to the house shows. In the Attitude era, you had all these run ins, nothing settled, so if you wanted to see the big matches, you had to buy the PPV. They need to find some way of doing that for now, a way of building anticpation, so that people want to get the network to see the big events and things of real consequence. From the 80s to the AE, the key was that they understood that the weekly shows existed to generate heat for the feuds and to give dimension to the wresters' characters and clearly identify who they were. It wasn't to have guys wrestle long matches. You keep that for the house shows and PPV. Even in the NWA in the 80s, the weekly shows you saw Flair cut promos, you saw angles, you saw the 4H attacking someone. You never saw long meaningless long matches. And that's even though the NWA was seen as the "wrestling" fed compared to the the WWF.
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kevin
El Dandy
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Post by kevin on Nov 30, 2015 17:05:58 GMT -5
For hotshotting I think they need is a TV title that gets defended every Raw and Smackdown and has numerous title changes. Make it so that when it is successfully defended it is a surprise. That gets exciting hotshotting on the show without devaluing any of the current belts.
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