|
Post by benstudd on Dec 14, 2015 0:05:04 GMT -5
I was mainly talking about the way they booked him. Like making everything about him when he never really was that over. Remember they started making the show mainly about Austin in 1998 ONLY after he had became mega over. They are doing this with Reigns now even though he is less over than Val Venis. Less popular than Billy Gunn. Futhermore, even when Austin was "The Guy" the rest of the show was highly entertaining, the whole roster shined. Again I don't agree that the show is less popular cause the audience is more fragmentated. It's just that they are doing a bad job across the board and have stopped listening to the fans. You mentioned the Rock. What did they do when he was booed? They turned him heel. Boom. They didn't wait forever until fans would come around. Rock would have never ever ever become so popular if they had not turned him heel. Vince was stubborn with Cena and he is even more stubborn with Reigns. And the rest of the show is unwatchable. But you're right that audience has become less sympathetic. But that's because they are not entertained and Vince has stopped listening to them. He doesn't give a shit. You know what I think a big problem is? Vince (or HHH, or Dunn or Steph or whoever's getting the weekly floggings) often approaches WWE booking like a regular TV show with one or a few central protagonists (ergo, the various main eventers over the years). That causes problems because so many fans view wrestling as a fictional sports league, and having one or two main heroes damages the illusion of parity. I hope @lovehater doesn't mind me using one of his old points, but he describes WWE's issue perfectly: Wrestling booking is caught in weird vortex between combat fighting and team sports. It's simulated combat and an individual sport as a whole, but they "fight" as many matches as Major Leaguers have games. Of course, this is impossible in real combat sports because of injury risk. So that creates people that never, ever lose and end up winning way too often. The best MLB team will drop 3 or 4 games out of 20, on a hot streak. The worst team in the majors can beat the best team on any given night But, (insert random 'midcard' boxer) will never, ever beat Floyd Mayweather, and that's the side WWE booking errs on. In other words, as a wrestling promotion, WWE doesn't have the luxury of putting their focus on a lead hero the way a "regular" television series does, at least not without frustrating fans. Take Jessica Jones- whole it gives good development to its supporting cast, you can't accuse her writers of shoving Jessica down our throats, because it's her damn show (as she'd probably reiterate, knowing her). But top dudes like Reigns, Hogan, Rock, Cena, Bryan, etc, for all their prestige within the WWE canon are usually still just one of 50 active guys, many with devoted followings of their own. With most forms of fiction, there's a clear understanding between the writer and the audience that they're going to follow the adventures of a specific hero. Pro wrestling narratives make that shaky, because within a fictionalized sports league even jobbers and midcarders should probably have a "puncher's chance", an opportunity to elevate beyond their current role, maybe even become WWE's main hero themselves. Therefore, when popular mid carders don't get the focus some main eventers do, their fans think it's unfair. And you know what? If Vince wants to create a narrative with a specific hero, I can empathize with that. Whether or not you think his stories suck is one thing, but if that's what'd he'd prefer, I can relate. Often when I write short stories I take extra time to develop my protagonist, certainly not to where the other characters around them look bad or are underdeveloped (one of WWE's issues), but I most definitely have a "top guy" for the rest of the cast to bounce off of. The problem is that he's still a wrestling promoter, so he's limited in what his audience is willing to accept. If "Roman Reigns" was the lead character and title of a mini-series Vince was producing outside of WWE television, as opposed to one out of many characters in a fake sports league, fans couldn't say jack shit to him. But like I said Vince and the WWE never had a problem like this in the past. Not during Hogan's era. Not during Austin's era. Not even during Hunter's Era as the dominant guy. There are really zero excuses.
|
|
wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
|
Post by wisdomwizard on Dec 14, 2015 0:21:57 GMT -5
*watches ending of WWE TLC 2015*
You lied to us Hunter.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 0:58:29 GMT -5
Take an epic beating like you did tonight, Trips, on every show; that's......a decent start. >
|
|
Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
|
Post by Reflecto on Dec 14, 2015 2:25:29 GMT -5
Wrestling booking is caught in weird vortex between combat fighting and team sports. It's simulated combat and an individual sport as a whole, but they "fight" as many matches as Major Leaguers have games. Of course, this is impossible in real combat sports because of injury risk. So that creates people that never, ever lose and end up winning way too often. The best MLB team will drop 3 or 4 games out of 20, on a hot streak. The worst team in the majors can beat the best team on any given night But, (insert random 'midcard' boxer) will never, ever beat Floyd Mayweather, and that's the side WWE booking errs on. In other words, as a wrestling promotion, WWE doesn't have the luxury of putting their focus on a lead hero the way a "regular" television series does, at least not without frustrating fans. Take Jessica Jones- whole it gives good development to its supporting cast, you can't accuse her writers of shoving Jessica down our throats, because it's her damn show (as she'd probably reiterate, knowing her). But top dudes like Reigns, Hogan, Rock, Cena, Bryan, etc, for all their prestige within the WWE canon are usually still just one of 50 active guys, many with devoted followings of their own. With most forms of fiction, there's a clear understanding between the writer and the audience that they're going to follow the adventures of a specific hero. Pro wrestling narratives make that shaky, because within a fictionalized sports league even jobbers and midcarders should probably have a "puncher's chance", an opportunity to elevate beyond their current role, maybe even become WWE's main hero themselves. Therefore, when popular mid carders don't get the focus some main eventers do, their fans think it's unfair. And you know what? If Vince wants to create a narrative with a specific hero, I can empathize with that. Whether or not you think his stories suck is one thing, but if that's what'd he'd prefer, I can relate. Often when I write short stories I take extra time to develop my protagonist, certainly not to where the other characters around them look bad or are underdeveloped (one of WWE's issues), but I most definitely have a "top guy" for the rest of the cast to bounce off of. The problem is that he's still a wrestling promoter, so he's limited in what his audience is willing to accept. If "Roman Reigns" was the lead character and title of a mini-series Vince was producing outside of WWE television, as opposed to one out of many characters in a fake sports league, fans couldn't say jack shit to him. That also ties to the same thing. Creating a narrative with a specific hero is easier to cover up if you are covering everyone on the show, top to bottom. The current "All or Nothing" viewpoint that fans have is in large part due to how laser-focused WWE is on their one narrative- to the point you have to focus on your favorite jobber or midcarder usurping Cena/Reigns to be THE MAN, because that's the only way they'll get any focus on them whatsoever....and the way people turn on even THOSE people when they get the top proves that having everyone get a chance, top to bottom, matters more than just the same "If you aren't first, you're last" booking style with a different person as the one on top. You don't need to see, say, Zack Ryder as WWE World Heavyweight Champion steamrolling everyone and doing everything as The Man, but people would settle for "Zack Ryder is feuding with Fandango, and maybe it's mostly seen on Superstars/Main Event, but sometimes the match appears on Raw or Smackdown, and either way it's sold that these two are in a blood feud and would stop at nothing to destroy the other person, they get some promos to prove that hatred, and it's 100% clear the Championship of Each Other means more to Ryder/Fandango than even the WWE World Heavyweight Title ever could". By contrast- if everyone on the roster, top to bottom, was just doing something...if you're not particularly a fan of Roman Reigns, you prefer someone else on the card instead? Your money's green- go to the show, cheer that guy, focus on what he's doing instead. It's the same as how the Attitude Era succeeded, or the Hogan era of wrestling- even if you didn't like Hogan, or Rock/Austin (and many people DIDN'T even then), then you can like someone else on the card and what they're doing.
|
|
Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,975
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 14, 2015 5:03:18 GMT -5
Take an epic beating like you did tonight, Trips, on every show; that's......a decent start. > They treated Triple H like he may have been dead, that doctor kept getting his pulse. Steph seemed confused if she should be angry or sad. They just left the corpse of Seamus laying at ringside. If that's amazing WWE, pass.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Dec 14, 2015 9:25:00 GMT -5
They obviously have no faith in their heels, if a 45 year old semi-retired corporate suit is being set up as Roman Reigns' main opponent.
|
|
|
Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 14, 2015 9:41:34 GMT -5
The big idea that'll turn things around?
More of the same.
|
|
Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,310
|
Post by Push R Truth on Dec 14, 2015 9:45:54 GMT -5
Your main face will feud with a heel Authority faction! That's the kind of New-And-Improved Thinking we need around here!
|
|
Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,006
|
Post by Sephiroth on Dec 14, 2015 9:49:39 GMT -5
There's no one way to "fix" the product. I think its pretty obvious at this stage that its not just a matter of WWE finding their next big superstar like Austin or Hogan-its a need to overhaul their entire approach, top to bottom. The injury rate of the last few years reflects that they definitely need to learnt to be more flexible in their long term planning and to have contingency options available for all possible outcomes. The decreasing ratings reflect a need to shake up a tv formula that has grown increasingly stale over the course of a decade or longer. The increasingly early retirement age for many wrestlers shows a need to not rely on any one star to carry a show for too long and to be constantly preparing new talent to step up. This is not something that can be done overnight.
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,664
Member is Online
|
Post by Bo Rida on Dec 14, 2015 10:18:32 GMT -5
While it has some merit I can't agree with the big cast problem because shows like The Wire and Game Of Thrones face the same dilemma and are are two of the most critically acclaimed and/or watched shows around. Sure there are characters that are more heavily featured than others but most still get development and storylines.
When it comes down to it they're not that different, the surface level goal of obtaining the WWE title/corners/The Iron Throne and the politics, gangs, violence, alliances, betrayals, beloved side characters, anti-heroes and antagonists that influence the destiny of those chasing them.
All three make a point to say that it's all about the game.
Yes I was building to that lame punchline, sorry.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 11:28:32 GMT -5
Take an epic beating like you did tonight, Trips, on every show; that's......a decent start. > They treated Triple H like he may have been dead, that doctor kept getting his pulse. Steph seemed confused if she should be angry or sad. They just left the corpse of Seamus laying at ringside. If that's amazing WWE, pass. I didn't say "amazing," I made sure (at such an early hour) to say "decent." I am aware of "who I was talking to" here.....
|
|