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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2015 5:22:48 GMT -5
I don't think the problem was guys coming in fro m WWE as much as who were coming and what they did with them. Christian should have been the template for how to do it, TNA could have been basically what NXT is now where new stars are created and old stars reinvent themselves. Kurt Angle was an exception in that they almost had no choice but to sign, and they didn't have to tweak him much but I definitely would have had him stop saying "it's real....it's damn real," which he still uses to this day and it still just sounds like he's ripping himself off. Jeff Hardy was a worthwhile chance too but he was pretty off the rails at that point, but you still never know what you're gonna get till you try.
Christian's run was just so good. He had every right to be sour grapes ex-WWE guy but he didn't. He just hunkered down and got right to work and showed what he was made of and I don't know if a single guy after him, Hardy or Angle came in without crying "you bastards shouldn't have fired me!"
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2015 5:30:13 GMT -5
Was it ever explained why Christian and TNA had such a bad falling out?
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Post by radiantsilvergun on Dec 24, 2015 5:40:35 GMT -5
Was it ever explained why Christian and TNA had such a bad falling out? There wasn't much of a fallout IIRC. I think it just came down to Christian getting a call to go "back home" for more money?
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Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 24, 2015 7:11:01 GMT -5
Was it ever explained why Christian and TNA had such a bad falling out? Way I understand it, he went there for a reduced work load and to prove he could be a top guy, by the end he was getting less money (his per date was low since he didn't expect to work or travel as much) and got shuffled down the card for Kurt which killed his whole "I can be a top guy" thing.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 24, 2015 8:48:32 GMT -5
Yeah, a huge point here is that TNA spent too many years not paying enough attention to what they wanted to do with former WWE wrestlers once they signed them, rather, they'd sign them in the hopes of generating some kind of buzz and THEN try to figure out what to do with them.
To offer a real sports parallel, consider a baseball team that wants to use free agency to sign some new players. Say this team has a couple of glaring needs on the team, let's say they need an outfielder and a catcher, but are pretty solid everywhere else in their lineup. Ergo, you'd expect them to go out and sign somebody who could play one of those positions well. But what if the club instead signs another infielder? Another starting pitcher? Another reliever? And what if they're only signing those guys because they were big names on another team, but may be getting a bit older now yet still want a big pay day? It's not to say doing that is always bad (sometimes more depth is a good thing, sometimes you need to protect against injuries, sometimes a big upgrade at one position can mask a deficiency in another, etc.), but it does still leave those glaring holes in the outfield and behind the plate, and leaves you in a vulnerable financial situation if the older free agent can't stay healthy, underperforms, etc. If you had just stuck with your homegrown younger players, sure, they might fail, but at least you maintain budget flexibility if you want to address the problem quickly. Look back to last season and ask the San Diego Padres how well a small market team spending money just to send a message can go.
TNA for too many years was too amped up at the idea of establishing itself as a "destination"; "Hey, look, guys like Christian, Rhino, Angle, Nash, and Sting all came here, that means we're big time and you should take us seriously!", as if that in and of itself was the end goal of signing those guys in the first place. I get that desire on TNA's part, but they were doing that from the time the company wasn't even four years old yet. What was the rush? You'd think that early in the company's life they'd be working to establish the brand, build a loyal audience, really set what type of show TNA was meant to be, yet for so long any time a WWE guy became available they'd swoop in to sign him without having the foggiest notion of what they wanted to do with him.
I agree wither others who are making a distinction between guys like Angle or Booker and guys like Kendrick or Pope; you can't really compare ex-WWE guys who became or were firmly established in WWE with guys who were perpetually stuck in the lower card and still looking to solidify their names on the national level. Signing the latter group makes perfect sense, as it's giving a chance to somebody who may have al the talent in the world, but just needs the right platform. But you can't sign them and then just throw your hands up and say "Welp, I don't really have many ideas for them, but isn't it good they're on the roster?"
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 24, 2015 10:25:58 GMT -5
TNA's problem wasn't that they signed all of these WWE guys, it was that they never bothered to mix them in with their own roster to truly make the newer guys into stars. Or even when they did attempt it, such as when Rob Van Dam started jobbing to guys like Roode and Storm in 2011, it mostly came off like the veteran guy was being jobbed out and buried, not that the TNA guy was getting pushed.
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Fauxnaki
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Post by Fauxnaki on Dec 24, 2015 13:01:10 GMT -5
EC3 has been great
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Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Dec 24, 2015 14:14:59 GMT -5
I don't think AJ's statement is really meant to be taken literally. Yeah, we know guys like Jeff Hardy, Team 3D, etc. were all great acquisitions as well. And there's guys like Pope and Kendrick who don't fit in the same category as established WWE stars who don't even really count in this criticism of TNA's book. What I think he is really trying to say is that they let people like Rob Van Dam and Booker T take and take and take without having to give back, and they always chose an ex-WWE main eventer over letting a TNA homegrown guy take the torch, regardless of talent and overness. This He just didn't want to call out names Christian and Dudleyz in 2005, Angle in 2006 and Jeff Hardy in 2010 were excellent signings
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Post by jimmyjames on Dec 24, 2015 15:42:56 GMT -5
I thought K-Kwik was good for TNA.
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Post by thetower52 on Dec 24, 2015 17:40:04 GMT -5
I dunno, I kind of agree with AJ. Christian came at a time where TNA really needed legitimacy and it worked for them, Angle came at a time where they really needed to step it up and until they f***ed it up it worked for them. Hardy I dunno, while he brought his fanbase as the other two did he didn't really bring anything else with him. I think TNA would have eventually snagged the fans who came for Jeff with something else anyway had they taken more of an advantage of the opportunities they were given. I'm just speaking for myself I guess, because I found TNA due to Jeff in 2004, and became a fan from then on in. Jeff is also why I started following TNA
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Post by alexwrightspackage on Dec 25, 2015 3:07:54 GMT -5
While I feel like they should've been using WWE guys as enhancement talent soon after hyping their debut to elevate some of the younger homegrown guys, I felt like they especially blew it by not giving the Main Event Mafia their comeuppance, and having Joe establish himself on the main event permanentlym with him, AJ and the rest getting rid of Sting, Nash, etc. Except...well...they had Joe join the Mafia, punctuated with that awkward hug by Kurt on top of the ladder.
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Post by benstudd on Dec 25, 2015 5:10:29 GMT -5
Jesus Christ guys, AJ was talking about Big stars. Not guys that came in TNA young. Sting has been valuable too but there's been situations where I think Joe should have won the belt at BFG 2006 and then book the company around him but instead Sting defeated Jeff Jarrett for the title. It was a nice moment but if we talk about progression of a company, this was an example of Sting being there at that point in time did hurt TNA. Sting has helped them somewhat and it was a good move getting him but TNA never had the creativity and foresight and integrity to update his character and make him do different things. (other than Joker Sting but this was a LOLTNA moment and he was feuding with another old dude passed his prime)
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Post by benstudd on Dec 25, 2015 5:21:36 GMT -5
Even if he had good matches in TNA, I still say that signing Jeff Hardy was a bad move. Even if people were brought on the product cause of him. Mainly cause sometime you have to draw a line in the sand and Hardy was the opposite of what TNA needed and what they wanted to be. His fans be damned. You have to know what you are, what you want your product to be and what kind of fans you want to have or want to sell your product to. Hardy gave you too much of that girls/ young boys Cena fandom and if you want to not be "WWE-lite" then you have to not have that around.
Like back in the day, you have the more cartoonish WWF in the 80s and the NWA was the more realistic mature audience that captured the rebellious young men.
It's like Bischoff when they asked him why he didn't sign Shawn Michaels in the 90s when he could and was available and Bischoff said he was never interested cause he didn't fit the WCW/nWo style.
And everytime Hardy would defeat a TNA homegrown amongst the cheers of the kiddies and girls, I would get seriously pissed off.
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Post by Halloween on Dec 25, 2015 6:48:31 GMT -5
The way I see the WWE thing is the way sports team see things.
If the Oakland Raiders could get a player from the New England Patriots to improve their defensive line should they not do it simply because the player was a Patriot? Of course not, much like how TNA shouldn't turn down a talent simply because they were WWE guys.
I think a lot of people (Including AJ in his quote) feel that every WWE guy had to be a homerun but the fact of the matter is a lot of guys such as Billy Gunn, Road Dogg, Rhino, Kid Kash etc were never hired to be big stars but instead were hired to improve the midcard or the X-Division or the tag division or what have you and a lot of them did a good job.
I don't think TNA has ever hired anyone simply because they were in WWE. I think with every guy TNA hired them with an idea in mind and sometimes it didn't just pan out. Like it or not Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff both improved the product whilst guys such as Jeff Hardy, Kevin Nash, Rhino, Scott Steiner and tons of others did really good work in TNA. They've had a few guys just looking for a payday (Booker T, Rob Van Dam) but the majority have at least offered entertaining television.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 25, 2015 7:00:06 GMT -5
I think with every guy TNA hired them with an idea in mind bahahaha
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on Dec 26, 2015 14:13:04 GMT -5
He does have a point about standing out. When WWE is doing good, one can't compete with them in a WWE-style presentation, when WWE is doing bad, fans want something nowhere near a WWE presentation.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 26, 2015 14:26:26 GMT -5
I don't think the problem was guys coming in fro m WWE as much as who were coming and what they did with them. Christian should have been the template for how to do it, TNA could have been basically what NXT is now where new stars are created and old stars reinvent themselves. Kurt Angle was an exception in that they almost had no choice but to sign, and they didn't have to tweak him much but I definitely would have had him stop saying "it's real....it's damn real," which he still uses to this day and it still just sounds like he's ripping himself off. Jeff Hardy was a worthwhile chance too but he was pretty off the rails at that point, but you still never know what you're gonna get till you try. Christian's run was just so good. He had every right to be sour grapes ex-WWE guy but he didn't. He just hunkered down and got right to work and showed what he was made of and I don't know if a single guy after him, Hardy or Angle came in without crying "you bastards shouldn't have fired me!" Hell, even Angle whined on TV about how mean WWE and Vince McMahon was when he first showed up.
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Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Dec 26, 2015 14:48:53 GMT -5
TNA really needed Chavo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2015 15:56:23 GMT -5
Those Chavo Hype videos were awesome though.
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Post by benstudd on Dec 27, 2015 22:34:41 GMT -5
The way I see the WWE thing is the way sports team see things. If the Oakland Raiders could get a player from the New England Patriots to improve their defensive line should they not do it simply because the player was a Patriot? Of course not, much like how TNA shouldn't turn down a talent simply because they were WWE guys. I think a lot of people (Including AJ in his quote) feel that every WWE guy had to be a homerun but the fact of the matter is a lot of guys such as Billy Gunn, Road Dogg, Rhino, Kid Kash etc were never hired to be big stars but instead were hired to improve the midcard or the X-Division or the tag division or what have you and a lot of them did a good job. I don't think TNA has ever hired anyone simply because they were in WWE. I think with every guy TNA hired them with an idea in mind and sometimes it didn't just pan out. Like it or not Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff both improved the product whilst guys such as Jeff Hardy, Kevin Nash, Rhino, Scott Steiner and tons of others did really good work in TNA. They've had a few guys just looking for a payday (Booker T, Rob Van Dam) but the majority have at least offered entertaining television. TNA hired Hogan so he could bring the Nasty Boys.
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