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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 19:01:19 GMT -5
That's somewhat humorous, because the popular story is that Konnan is the person who taught Bret the Sharpshooter. He stole it from Rugged Ronnie Garvin
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Post by ________ has left the building on Apr 25, 2016 20:34:38 GMT -5
That's somewhat humorous, because the popular story is that Konnan is the person who taught Bret the Sharpshooter. He stole it from Rugged Ronnie Garvin Actually he jacked the move from Riki Choshu, the man who invented the hold.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 25, 2016 23:17:47 GMT -5
I remember an academic book on wrestling from the time period that specifically noted that American trainers and wrestlers at the time had a huge disdain for lucha - finding it too unrealistic and "light" in comparison to the American style. So, yeah, this was Bret expressing the general opinion of most of his peers.
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Squirrel Master
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Squirrel Master on Apr 26, 2016 0:10:30 GMT -5
He didn't hate all Mexican wrestlers. He was the only one who didn't doubt El Dandy His biggest regret was never getting to wrestle Hypnosis. "The high flyer of the highest magnitude" LOL
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Apr 26, 2016 0:16:36 GMT -5
He was ascared because back in the 80s and 90s Mexican wrestling was realer than American wrestling.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 11:01:32 GMT -5
He stole it from Rugged Ronnie Garvin Actually he jacked the move from Riki Choshu, the man who invented the hold. It wasn't a real move until it appeared on wwf tv.
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 26, 2016 11:20:12 GMT -5
Wasn't Sting the first guy in North America to do the hold?
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willyjakes
Don Corleone
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Post by willyjakes on Apr 26, 2016 12:32:38 GMT -5
I tend to agree with Bret. Mexican lucha stuff, while impressive acrobatics, to me is total throw-away crap and I have never enjoyed a second of it. I hate it's incorporation in modern day WWE. They're all pint sized cookie cutter masks to me. Could care less how many botched trampoline entrances or top rope frankensteiners they pull off. It's a bore.
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krozor
Don Corleone
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Post by krozor on Apr 26, 2016 18:21:04 GMT -5
I think it was purely about not understanding the psychology of lucha - the speed, the flips, the sort of synchronized aspect of it, things as simple as not having to tag in when somebody leaves the ring. Bret's a lot more blunt and post-retirement Austin a lot more nice, but there was a time on his podcast where Austin too would ask anyone who mentioned having worked in Mexico or with luchadores to explain the psychology of lucha matches to him because he was having trouble "getting" it. Seems like, the same way that Bret did, finally getting to see elite workers go at the highest level, it finally turned into something Austin could appreciate, too.
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jmule
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Post by jmule on Apr 26, 2016 18:49:28 GMT -5
The first couple of times I watched mysterio I was really amazed by him but then I quickly got bored with his style. Haven't liked him since.
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Post by Frizzle Fry on Apr 26, 2016 20:44:39 GMT -5
People have a biased vision about lucha libre. Yes they are famous for his high flying and acrobatic skills, which is awesome, but they are as creative with holds and submissions as with the high flying
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Post by Mama Rhodes Looking @ U Now on Apr 26, 2016 21:05:43 GMT -5
He stole it from Rugged Ronnie Garvin Actually he jacked the move from Riki Choshu, the man who invented the hold. And he stole the move from my grandpa, Ruckus P. Libs
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Tony Schiavontay
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Apr 26, 2016 21:16:30 GMT -5
He was a bigger fan of Lucha than he was of Dean Malenko's work at least. He wanted to wrestle him at first but he lost a lot of respect for him once he saw him sitting at home with some hokey injury while Bret had to nurse a real injury: a groin tear the likes of which Dean's never seen.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Apr 27, 2016 6:08:05 GMT -5
I'm semi joking, but semi serious. It's most likely simply that it wasn't Bret Hart. If it was Bret Hart Bret Hart was talking about he'd mark like Bret Hart meeting Bret Hart at a Bret Hart convention. You forgot to mention Bret Hart.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Apr 27, 2016 14:59:08 GMT -5
Bret was totally in the WWF bubble (for example: he hadn't seen Ric Flair in action until Flair joined WWF in 1991). He only knew Stampede & WWF style. Everything else? Not pro wrestling. Inferior. He finally saw that "flippy Mexican stuff" when he joined WCW...and ended up calling the luchadores the best workers in the company. To be fair to Bret, the cruiserweights in WCW later that same year (1996) opened a lot of eyes. I imagine Bret's opinion mirroring that of a lot of American promoters' back then. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, didn't Bret work for Crockett in the early 80s?
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Paco
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Post by Paco on Apr 27, 2016 15:07:53 GMT -5
Bret was totally in the WWF bubble (for example: he hadn't seen Ric Flair in action until Flair joined WWF in 1991). He only knew Stampede & WWF style. Everything else? Not pro wrestling. Inferior. He finally saw that "flippy Mexican stuff" when he joined WCW...and ended up calling the luchadores the best workers in the company. To be fair to Bret, the cruiserweights in WCW later that same year (1996) opened a lot of eyes. I imagine Bret's opinion mirroring that of a lot of American promoters' back then. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, didn't Bret work for Crockett in the early 80s? I do recall seeing a Bret vs. Buzz Sawyer match from the old Crockett TV studio. *does research* Yup, he for worked there for 2 months in 1979. That Buzz Sawyer match was seemingly his only televised one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 15:28:11 GMT -5
Wasn't this mostly kayfabe to add more heat to the feud and add more sympathy for Shawn? Like Bret is a stickler for the good old days of catch hold wrestling, but dude prides himself as a innovator and loves wrestlers who adds something new even if it's being heavily influenced or copied on the international stage.
If anything I think he may have hated the spot fest matches where psychology and selling just goes out the window and it becomes a show of acrobatics and kayfabe goes out the window of two wrestlers trying who hate each other trying to hurt each other.
Like he has praised the f*** out of HBK, Mysterio, Owen Hart, Sabu, AJ Styles, Sami Zayn, and countless of other high flyers as elite talent. But this is a guy who always finds a way to praise Cody Rhodes in every interview possible for awesome looking his punches are.
Plus Stu Hart was really the first major North American promoter to bring in major Mexican and Japanese talent and bring in high flying matches like The Ladder Match and not Paul Heyman like WWE always tries to say. And Owen Hart was heavily influenced by them.
I just really think it was kayfabe so Bret can add more heat to the feud and pander to the old school fans playing the role of The Old Guard vs The New Guard lead by HBK and his freewheeling high-flying ways all the kids like.
Edit: Hell Bret has ripped apart Dean Malenko, Ole Anderson, most of the NWA, Jim Cornette, etc for being boring old men stuck in their old ways.
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Post by MrElijah on Apr 27, 2016 16:20:31 GMT -5
Wasn't this mostly kayfabe to add more heat to the feud and add more sympathy for Shawn? Like Bret is a stickler for the good old days of catch hold wrestling, but dude prides himself as a innovator and loves wrestlers who adds something new even if it's being heavily influenced or copied on the international stage. If anything I think he may have hated the spot fest matches where psychology and selling just goes out the window and it becomes a show of acrobatics and kayfabe goes out the window of two wrestlers trying who hate each other trying to hurt each other. Like he has praised the f*** out of HBK, Mysterio, Owen Hart, Sabu, AJ Styles, Sami Zayn, and countless of other high flyers as elite talent. But this is a guy who always finds a way to praise Cody Rhodes in every interview possible for awesome looking his punches are. Plus Stu Hart was really the first major North American promoter to bring in major Mexican and Japanese talent and bring in high flying matches like The Ladder Match and not Paul Heyman like WWE always tries to say. And Owen Hart was heavily influenced by them. I just really think it was kayfabe so Bret can add more heat to the feud and pander to the old school fans playing the role of The Old Guard vs The New Guard lead by HBK and his freewheeling high-flying ways all the kids like. Edit: Hell Bret has ripped apart Dean Malenko, Ole Anderson, most of the NWA, Jim Cornette, etc for being boring old men stuck in their old ways. Bret ripped Dean? One would think he would appreciate Dean's technical style.
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Post by sonofsharknado on Apr 28, 2016 0:48:46 GMT -5
Wasn't this mostly kayfabe to add more heat to the feud and add more sympathy for Shawn? Like Bret is a stickler for the good old days of catch hold wrestling, but dude prides himself as a innovator and loves wrestlers who adds something new even if it's being heavily influenced or copied on the international stage. If anything I think he may have hated the spot fest matches where psychology and selling just goes out the window and it becomes a show of acrobatics and kayfabe goes out the window of two wrestlers trying who hate each other trying to hurt each other. Like he has praised the f*** out of HBK, Mysterio, Owen Hart, Sabu, AJ Styles, Sami Zayn, and countless of other high flyers as elite talent. But this is a guy who always finds a way to praise Cody Rhodes in every interview possible for awesome looking his punches are. Plus Stu Hart was really the first major North American promoter to bring in major Mexican and Japanese talent and bring in high flying matches like The Ladder Match and not Paul Heyman like WWE always tries to say. And Owen Hart was heavily influenced by them. I just really think it was kayfabe so Bret can add more heat to the feud and pander to the old school fans playing the role of The Old Guard vs The New Guard lead by HBK and his freewheeling high-flying ways all the kids like. Edit: Hell Bret has ripped apart Dean Malenko, Ole Anderson, most of the NWA, Jim Cornette, etc for being boring old men stuck in their old ways. Bret ripped Dean? One would think he would appreciate Dean's technical style. He shat all over Dean in his book, as he was wont to shit on all things that were not Bret Hart, Owen Hart, or Bret Hart's penis.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Apr 28, 2016 1:31:05 GMT -5
Nobody ever got a boner watching El Santo. Speak for yourself.
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