Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 17, 2020 4:53:56 GMT -5
Another justification for Byleth, especially with the way they chose to implement their gameplay is, despite the sheer size of the roster representation FE has, it is rather paradoxically rather poor representation of the actual series. Think of it like this. The Mario characters each show off different platforming flavors(usually in the form of their recovery), the Pokemon characters show off how there are different typings in the games and with the PT we get the whole aspect of a trainer battling with their Pokemon, who also double as showing off how Pokemon have different evolutionary stages. And so on and so forth. Outside of Robin and Corrin, the pre-Byleth FE characters were all just swordfighters....for a tactical RPG franchise famed for its wide range of weapon choices(and many games had that weapon triangle system as a key component of the gameplay). Do you see the issue there? With Byleth having a sword, axe, lance, and bow, we finally have proper representation of the weapon variety in the series. Now why the hell it took Sakurai 8 god damned fighters before we finally got that, I dunno. Regardless I feel like this truly is the last FE character, at least the last one Sakurai will be making. Not only because of finally giving us the weapon variety but also because they did the deep dive into the series history with this presentation. Probably the last one, yeah. Even if I would be down for Soren somehow getting in. ...What, we get Ike, why not his significant other?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 5:52:30 GMT -5
Another good reason to put in Byleth here is that FE pretty consistently has gotten awful treatment when it comes to stages. Melee stage was cut then ever since the only one based on a real location from the games is Arena Ferox which is basically just a passing visual similarity with pretty much nothing to do with the actual map (and is an extremely minor location anyway) and doesn’t even come with the right music despite it being a good fit for Smash Bros., and despite Fates having plenty of great options for them Corrin was the 4 DLC that didn’t get one. Garreg Mach is the first worthwhile stage the series has gotten.
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Post by Mike Strike on Jan 17, 2020 6:05:16 GMT -5
Im going to go on a rant but I legitimately hate the response to the criticism of another Fire Emblem Character in smash is "Hoes Mad". Like people cant even come up with a counterpoint as to why the character should be in Smash. Back when Joker was announced, they proudly say on national television, that all the characters were going to be from franchises new to Smash. On top of that, Sakurai say Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was too new for Smash hence the Rex Mii Costume but yet Third House isn't? If they wanted a Nintendo Character in the first season pass, there alot of franchises that they could had pick before Fire Emblem. To be fair, I never play Fire Emblem before but I do play as certain fire emblem character like Roy and Corrin. I dont hate Fire Emblem, I just think Fire Emblem need a break from Smash. Anyways Im happy that I got Banjo as a Fighter. On the side note, Nintendo is not immune to criticism. In the last couple mouth, it seem like people get really defensive when it come to criticism to games like Sword/Shield or the latest DLC Character. If games like Fallout 76 and Death Standing can get criticisms so can Nintendo games. So knock it Off and stop saying "Hoes Mad" if you cant think of a counterpoint to the criticism at hand. If you want a counterpoint as to why she should be in Smash, here you go: Fire Emblem Three Houses is one of the best games of 2019, one of the most successful and popular entries in the franchise, and one of the handful of key Nintendo exclusive games on the Switch. For a game that is essentially Nintendo All-Stars, having a rep from Three Houses not only makes sense, it would be ludicrous to not have one. Three Houses is a big deal. Bigger than Zelda? Bigger than BotW? Because there was already more FE characters than Zelda characters and it has gotten yet another while Zelda hasn't had a new guy since Toon Link in Brawl. I still remember in SSB4 when the Number of Star Fox reps decreased while FE increased and yet Roy was DLC instead of Wolf. Why was Roy so much important when there were already more FE guys?
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jan 17, 2020 6:06:53 GMT -5
Zelda does have a surprisingly small core roster.
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Post by eJm on Jan 17, 2020 6:10:37 GMT -5
My argument with Zelda is...who else is there to make a good fighting game character from that'd reflect the series' importance? At least with the FE characters, they were all main characters or antagonists.
Outside of the people we have...there's not many that'd be really exciting to have. Linkle possibly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 6:13:40 GMT -5
Fire Emblem has a rotating cast of main characters from different worlds, Zelda pretty much has three primary players and guests of the day. And most of those got some level of refinement for Ultimate anyway.
There are Zelda characters I'd love to have certainly - offhand Midna & Wolf Link really should've made it into Brawl, would love to have Ghirahim, Linkle would be great - but FE has more characters because it has a far more vast selection of main characters.
I really feel like if FE was limited to just Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin, and Byleth nobody would mind but somehow having some minimal-effort clones around makes everyone lose their minds.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jan 17, 2020 6:19:51 GMT -5
My argument with Zelda is...who else is there to make a good fighting game character from that'd reflect the series' importance? At least with the FE characters, they were all main characters or antagonists. Outside of the people we have...there's not many that'd be really exciting to have. Linkle possibly. Linkle, maybe dig up Midna w/ Wolf Link, maybe Impa(Hyrule Warriors variant specifically). If we’re pulling from BotW, since it is the most recent, I dunno...I guess Urbosa? It’d have to be one of the Champions, I feel.
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Post by Mike Strike on Jan 17, 2020 6:37:49 GMT -5
My argument with Zelda is...who else is there to make a good fighting game character from that'd reflect the series' importance? Piranha Plant is in Smash, we're long past the "relevance" argument meaning anything. But if you insist...
-Impa: Been a part of the Zelda series since the NES days (albeit only in the manuals). Appears in 10 games counting a similar named character in TP. Could be a Sheik echo, but also could have 2 original movesets based on her HW weapons. -Malon: Appeared in 4 games, is an expy of Marin, & was expied by Creamia & Romania, so her influence extends even further. Could have farming equipment, bow (ala Romani), or summon horses/cows/cuccos for her moveset. -Tingle: Appears in 6 major games, easter egg cameos in 3 others, & starred in 4 games of his own. -The Champions: Breakout stars of BotW, 1st characters outside of Link/Zelda/Ganondorf to get amiibo. -Ghirahim/Midna/Skullkid: All considered significant enough to get Mii costumes or Assist Trophies. -Vaati: Villain of 3 games, the next most prolific baddie after Ganon/dorf. -Demise: The cause of it all. The demon that kicks off the entire history of Hyrule & created Ganondorf.
I've played Hyrule Warriors & Fire Emblem Warriors back to back & let me tell ya, HW's roster stomps all over FEW's in character/moveset variety.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 6:52:42 GMT -5
I'd be fine with Impa as a Sheik echo, but I've really never understood the idea of putting her in as an original character. Not that I'd object to it - could be fun and all, nothing against her - but... Impa basically has nothing at all in the way of consistent character traits or a consistent design beyond, "Older woman who in some way helps Zelda." There's basically nothing at all in common between the Oracle Impa, the OoT one, the SS one, and the BotW one beyond sharing the name so I really hesitate to in any way call her a recurring character and Skyward Sword is really the only game where she's even especially relevant to the plot.
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Post by Mike Strike on Jan 17, 2020 7:11:09 GMT -5
I'd be fine with Impa as a Sheik echo, but I've really never understood the idea of putting her in as an original character. Not that I'd object to it - could be fun and all, nothing against her - but... Impa basically has nothing at all in the way of consistent character traits or a consistent design beyond, "Older woman who in some way helps Zelda." There's basically nothing at all in common between the Oracle Impa, the OoT one, the SS one, and the BotW one beyond sharing the name so I really hesitate to in any way call her a recurring character and Skyward Sword is really the only game where she's even especially relevant to the plot. Oot Impa was pretty important being 1 of the sages & Zelda's mentor. OoT/SS/HW have common design traits of pesudo-ninja warrior traits which is carried on by her tribe in BotW. I'd say she's more consistent with her design than Ganon (only 3 main games even have Ganondorf's human form & Ganon flipflops between bipedal & quadrupedal). & again, importance doesn't mean nearly as much as people seem to think when it comes to SSB when we have Plant, Daisy, & freaking Jigglypuff.
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Post by BorneAgain on Jan 17, 2020 8:02:47 GMT -5
I get that development for fighters is a long and complicated process and I'm sure they have their own plans on revealing them in the future, but I do think some of the antipathy towards Byleth would have been mitigated if they'd said who fighter 6 was. Various people weren't thrilled about Hero, but the showcase of Banjo less than a hour later nipped a lot of potential salt in the bud. Even a lack of excitement towards Terry Bogard was somewhat helped via the Sans news and the reveal of more fighters.
As is, to a certain segment of people who aren't Fire Emblem fans, its a fighter they don't care about paired with no announcement about who the next one will be or even when the next one will come out. Its not quite as odd as advertising the first fighter's pass after having the big bonus DLC be a Mario series mook, but its not far off.
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Post by Mike Strike on Jan 17, 2020 8:45:25 GMT -5
I get that development for fighters is a long and complicated process and I'm sure they have their own plans on revealing them in the future, but I do think some of the antipathy towards Byleth would have been mitigated if they'd said who fighter 6 was. Various people weren't thrilled about Hero, but the showcase of Banjo less than a hour later nipped a lot of potential salt in the bud. Even a lack of excitement towards Terry Bogard was somewhat helped via the Sans news and the reveal of more fighters. As is, to a certain segment of people who aren't Fire Emblem fans, its a fighter they don't care about paired with no announcement about who the next one will be or even when the next one will come out. Its not quite as odd as advertising the first fighter's pass after having the big bonus DLC be a Mario series mook, but its not far off. We got Cuphead for that this time.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 17, 2020 13:57:06 GMT -5
I'd be fine with Impa as a Sheik echo, but I've really never understood the idea of putting her in as an original character. Not that I'd object to it - could be fun and all, nothing against her - but... Impa basically has nothing at all in the way of consistent character traits or a consistent design beyond, "Older woman who in some way helps Zelda." There's basically nothing at all in common between the Oracle Impa, the OoT one, the SS one, and the BotW one beyond sharing the name so I really hesitate to in any way call her a recurring character and Skyward Sword is really the only game where she's even especially relevant to the plot. Oot Impa was pretty important being 1 of the sages & Zelda's mentor. OoT/SS/HW have common design traits of pesudo-ninja warrior traits which is carried on by her tribe in BotW. I'd say she's more consistent with her design than Ganon (only 3 main games even have Ganondorf's human form & Ganon flipflops between bipedal & quadrupedal). & again, importance doesn't mean nearly as much as people seem to think when it comes to SSB when we have Plant, Daisy, & freaking Jigglypuff. Yeah moveset and importance kinda goes out the window with people like pirahna plants, Daisy and most of the pokemon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 13:41:04 GMT -5
I was skeptical about Byleth being added, but I warmed up to the idea because he/she will be the traditional weapon triangle of FE (plus a bow).
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Post by MrElijah on Jan 18, 2020 18:10:55 GMT -5
My argument with Zelda is...who else is there to make a good fighting game character from that'd reflect the series' importance? At least with the FE characters, they were all main characters or antagonists. Outside of the people we have...there's not many that'd be really exciting to have. Linkle possibly. Impa & maybe the Champions?
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Post by brown bricks on Jan 18, 2020 18:22:01 GMT -5
We need more Punch-Out!! characters in Smash. I want King Hippo and Bald Bull just destroying everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 18:40:54 GMT -5
I'm very much in the, "It's too good to be true," camp but current rumor is they're working on a traditional Paper Mario and a 2D Metroid Fusion sequel.
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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on Jan 18, 2020 22:25:46 GMT -5
Read into this how you will, but apparently Sakurai (or at least the official dev account) just started playing something. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}
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Post by Mike Strike on Jan 19, 2020 4:58:42 GMT -5
I was skeptical about Byleth being added, but I warmed up to the idea because he/she will be the traditional weapon triangle of FE (plus a bow). It has a "too little, too late". From the beginning, all of the FE reps should've been different classes instead of lords & avatars. & now Sakurai's playing catch-up by cramming the classes in 1 character who's still yet another avatar. We need more Punch-Out!! characters in Smash. I want King Hippo and Bald Bull just destroying everyone.
King Hippo could potentially work as a K. Rool Echo: large, fat, wears a crown, boxing gloves appear in some of Rool's moves, a duct-taped manhole cover could appear for the down B.
Read into this how you will, but apparently Sakurai (or at least the official dev account) just started playing something. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} Surprised it took him so long if anything. Maybe he played it on other platforms before?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 5:55:43 GMT -5
Really the only Punch Out character I've ever wanted is Glass Joe. It'd just be fun having him be utterly pathetic... and still using him to beat up people like Ganondorf.
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