|
Post by TexShark300 on Aug 27, 2016 13:55:10 GMT -5
i find paul heyman to be so annoying. his speech patterns bug me, and his yelling voice is just awful. i don't get the praise I have been a part of a couple of spirited discussions on Heyman on other boards/groups. Some want to call him One of the greatest managers of all time. I disagree whole heartedly A manager's job is to help get their wrestler over. Who has he gotten over? Lesnar. That is it. He managed Punk, Punk was ALREADY over. Who else has he managed. Ryback? Heyman did not get him over. Cesaro? Failed. Axel? Failed. Go way back, Angle? Already over. Big Show? Already over AND Failed to elevate. Go further back.... Dangerous Alliance? Rude, Austin, Already over in WCW. Eaton, Anderson, Zbyszko, Failed to elevate them from where they were. Condrey/Rose? Come on. Cornette made that feud. Samoan Swat Team? Please. So his record as a manager is bad. He is overrated as it gets. Cornette, Heenan, Gary Hart, Jimmy Hart, All have better track records of getting a wrestler over than Heyman. And I haven't even mentioned his terrible reputation as a promoter in ECW. He was a great writer in the Smackdown 6 era, but look at what he had to work with.... Eddie, Edge, Rey, Cena, Angle, etc.... Heyman is so very overrated it hurts.
|
|
|
Post by CMPunkyBrewster on Aug 27, 2016 14:16:10 GMT -5
I thought of another one, although this is more a problem with wrestling fans more than wrestling itself. Anyway...
Nothing makes me roll my eyes harder than when, in the middle of a regular discussion, somebody has to come along and start showing off their knowledge of Japanese wrestling. It always feels forced and, frankly, just douchey. Especially since, even in the IWC, Japanese wrestling fans are still a relatively small minority. They come off like wrestling's hipsters to me.
While I'm on the subject: Japanese wrestling is, largely, incredibly overrated. While I have seen some stuff that is really cool, the vast majority of what I have seen is just dudes beating the hell out of each other and taking stupid bumps that no one in their right mind should take. What makes it even worse is that Americans do the same stuff and get called out (rightfully so) as morons. But if Japanese people do it, they are hailed as the greatest thing in the world. I don't care where you're from, I don't want to see a guy slammed on his f***ing head or nearly clotheslined to death. I like solid, snug, fast paced action, but this is just entertainment, not a legitimate contest. Lighten up.
Lucha Libre is also overrated. When done right, high flying can be an amazing, impactful form of pro wrestling. But for every one of the luchadores who understands that, there are 10 guys who wind up looking like weirdly dressed swing dancers. A well executed dive or top rope attack is a thing of beauty that carries an impact. 8 flips and 26 twirls to end with an armdrag is just f***ing ludicrous, and takes me right out of the match.
|
|
Dragonfly
Samurai Cop
...is no Barry Windham.
Posts: 2,481
|
Post by Dragonfly on Aug 27, 2016 14:41:21 GMT -5
I love XPW. Yes, Rob Black is world class scumbag. And yes, the wrestling is, as color commentator Larry Rivera called it, "violent crap." And New Jack almost killing Vic Grimes was deeply disturbing. Go beyond all that however, and you'll find hours and hours of crazy, tongue-in-cheek insanity. It's basically "The Final Deletion: The Series."
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Aug 27, 2016 14:55:01 GMT -5
A lot of the Attitude era hasn't aged well. I mean, when people wanted to go all out in a brawl, they would put on an amazing brawl, but there really weren't many technical masterpieces in there, the women were basically nothing until the Trish vs Lita feud years later, and the early 1999 I'm going through right now played hot potato with titles even more than WCW did.
|
|
DragonMasterP
King Koopa
Wait, I turned 30? How'd that happen?
Posts: 11,986
|
Post by DragonMasterP on Aug 27, 2016 15:02:02 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels is the most overrated wrestler of all time in my book.
|
|
|
Post by GuyOfOwnage on Aug 27, 2016 15:02:09 GMT -5
A lot of the Attitude era hasn't aged well. I mean, when people wanted to go all out in a brawl, they would put on an amazing brawl, but there really weren't many technical masterpieces in there, the women were basically nothing until the Trish vs Lita feud years later, and the early 1999 I'm going through right now played hot potato with titles even more than WCW did. WWE didn't really become about technical masterpieces until the brand split, and even then, 99% of the good stuff was on Smackdown.
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Aug 27, 2016 15:12:00 GMT -5
Other than the fact that it's dangerous (which is a big deal) there is nothing wrong or silly about the gif where the one wrestler superplexes another and then suplexes him again out of the ring. You can do things like that and still have good psychology. The only thing that gets in the way of the psychology of a match is if things happen that violate the rules set earlier in the match. The guy who got superplexed does the next suplex. Doesn't change the basic point. In this match, superplexes don't hurt that much; fine. It's only bad if then a superplex is the finish later.
|
|
魔界5号
Hank Scorpio
No. 1 FAN Poster You Want To Hug
Posts: 6,319
|
Post by 魔界5号 on Aug 27, 2016 15:33:36 GMT -5
Bret vs Shawn at Wrestlemania wasn't anywhere near as good as it could've been. Way too long and they got boring by the 30 minute mark. Sasha vs Bayley and Brock vs Angle were both way better Iron Man matches imo.
|
|
Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
Posts: 8,508
|
Post by Phil Parent on Aug 27, 2016 15:41:34 GMT -5
- Dragon Gate hasn't done anything to me since the Toryumon days. I loved it when it was those first few classes and Ultimo was in charge. Now it's just a convoluted mess with way too many turns and stables.
- Speaking of which, Ultimo Dragon was better than Lyger, Lyger just had a bigger spotlight put on him. The number of wrestlers in history that were better than Ultimo in-ring can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
- Inoki and Baba bored the crap out of me in the ring. Give me Maeda and Tsuruta, anytime.
- I hate Lucha Libre. Spot, spot, spot... more power to the luchadores that can get out of there and make it in the US or Japan though!
- Never had any interest in hardcore wrestling. Violent crap. If I would have accepted to get myself burned, blown up, stabbed, dropped from great heights, etc... would I have been the greatest ever? Some of them are ONLY that!
- I think fans salivating all over the female wrestlers are creepy. Those pictures with those guys hugging Brie and Becky? Creepy.
- I love CFO$'s songs. But I wish they weren't loops. A second verse to Glorious would be cool....
- Jacques Rougeau MAY be a carny who's only nice when cameras are around, but he can book, promote and train as good as anyone. Respect for that.
- Vince McMahon has less to do with WWE's success than most people think. WWE's success is due to the in-ring product, and that wasn't him. It was Pat Patterson. McMahon was a good businessman and good for merchandising. But the wrestling part? A big zero.
- I like Cornette's booking. Bite me.
- I think every promoter who never told Chris Benoit to ease it with the headbutts and the chair shots are more responsible for the tragedy than Chris Benoit is.
|
|
Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,446
|
Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Aug 27, 2016 15:47:19 GMT -5
Mick Foley - Glorified Stuntman. Great at psychology and off-the-charts charisma, though. So...he's significantly more than a glorified stuntman. Perhaps slightly more than glorified stuntman, then. If you have to basically kill yourself in order to get to show the other, better, parts of your skillset, you're a stuntman in my opinion.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,522
|
Post by chrom on Aug 27, 2016 16:26:33 GMT -5
The majority of TNA's product in 2009 was absolutely terrible. Not many will argue that. It was a horrible year until the fall and winter. You had Kurt throwing a temper tantrum everytime something didn't go his way, Booker T being a prima donna and a title being made just for him so he'd be satisfied. Jarrett getting screwed out of ownership because he decided he wants to be involved in a relationship again and Ditzy and her lackeys being put in charge which lead to Hogan and buddies coming in. As well as the start of the decay in the Knockout division with The Horrific People being made the focus. And another thing no one else does is call Scott Steiner out on his actions. Steiner was a bully and a thug in both WCW and TNA. He'd harass and threaten to harm other people and no one dared to say anything bad about him because hey, hold the record for most steroids and I guess that grants you immunity for some reason. This "WWE held me back with politics and I'd be a bigger star than all of them combined if they hadn't" schtick is really getting old. No, WWE didn't held you back. You got your chance to be on the biggest stage in wrestling and you decided to not measure up to their standards and see that you're not worth investing money in. The only guy who hasn't done that is Juice Robinson, The former CJ Parker in FCW and NXT. When he left, he didn't bitch and moan and complain and go to other companies and get awarded a title upon arriving like some. Instead he knew he had to work harder if he wanted to make it back there one day and so went to The New Japan Dojo and has become well praised with how hard he works there by the trainers and gotten a break with his first big singles match next month against Kyle O'Reilly.
|
|
|
Post by mehmonster on Aug 27, 2016 16:35:39 GMT -5
WWE's "women's revolution" has moved the sex appeal from outright naked bodies to the more kinky grappling women aspect. I don't remember women's actual ring gear being as skimpy as Nikki Bella in the Attitude Era outside Mickie James with her almost pointless skirt, even though she wasn't Attitude Era. My memory is shit though.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 27, 2016 16:45:42 GMT -5
WWE's "women's revolution" has moved the sex appeal from outright naked bodies to the more kinky grappling women aspect. I don't remember women's actual ring gear being as skimpy as Nikki Bella in the Attitude Era outside Mickie James with her almost pointless skirt, even though she wasn't Attitude Era. My memory is shit though. Trish used to wrestle in stuff like this and Lita's biggest look was wrestling in a thong that was barely covered by her pants.
|
|
|
Post by mehmonster on Aug 27, 2016 16:48:31 GMT -5
WWE's "women's revolution" has moved the sex appeal from outright naked bodies to the more kinky grappling women aspect. I don't remember women's actual ring gear being as skimpy as Nikki Bella in the Attitude Era outside Mickie James with her almost pointless skirt, even though she wasn't Attitude Era. My memory is shit though. Trish used to wrestle in stuff like this and Lita's biggest look was wrestling in a thong that was barely covered by her pants. Nikki wears a similar top with pants so small, they are useless and disappear in other places. Lita still wore full trousers, even if low. She eventually took her top off but, again, Nikki wrestles in gear that just seems "token gesture" at best. I wonder if she chooses that outfit or if WWE suggest it.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Woodrow on Aug 27, 2016 17:10:07 GMT -5
I want Brock Lesnar and Paul Heyman to f*** off Brock should be squashed mercilessly in his last WWE match
|
|
|
Post by MrElijah on Aug 27, 2016 17:10:49 GMT -5
I don't think the Road Warriors are the greatest team ever. A huge part of a great era of Tag Team wrestling but no.
Ivan Koloff was awesome.
The Nasty Boys are better than people give them credit for.
Bockwinkel was a better talker than Heenan. Heenan was great but damn, Nick had the gift of gab.
|
|
|
Post by GuyOfOwnage on Aug 27, 2016 17:17:25 GMT -5
- I think fans salivating all over the female wrestlers are creepy. Those pictures with those guys hugging Brie and Becky? Creepy. - I love CFO$'s songs. But I wish they weren't loops. A second verse to Glorious would be cool.... 1. Being a fan of a female wrestler's work, or innocently finding them attractive...those people are harmless. But others take it a step too far. 2. That is my biggest beef with CFO$. They come up with some great hooks, but the rest of it is looped and/or filler. That's where Jim Johnston still has them beat, IMO.
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Aug 27, 2016 17:21:34 GMT -5
"I'm marking out bro!" is a perfectly acceptable face announcer reaction to a return, and the genuininess of it sold the moment well. For him to get in trouble for it is stupid, and for fans to turn on him because of it is double-stupid.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,020
|
Post by Mozenrath on Aug 27, 2016 17:31:19 GMT -5
"I'm marking out bro!" is a perfectly acceptable face announcer reaction to a return, and the genuininess of it sold the moment well. For him to get in trouble for it is stupid, and for fans to turn on him because of it is double-stupid. I honestly don't mind Matt Striker one bit.
|
|
|
Post by chronocross on Aug 27, 2016 18:11:13 GMT -5
"I'm marking out bro!" is a perfectly acceptable face announcer reaction to a return, and the genuininess of it sold the moment well. For him to get in trouble for it is stupid, and for fans to turn on him because of it is double-stupid. I didn't know he got in trouble for it, but I still wasn't crazy on him saying it and I never really got into his commentary.
|
|